Escott said:
A diesel generator would have definitely been too large for what he needs. If anything, the 4.5Kw gas may be a bit small, but it sounds to me like it might well work ok.
- Thread starter Rocky
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Inverters & Mr Mike
A diesel generator would have definitely been too large for what he needs. If anything, the 4.5Kw gas may be a bit small, but it sounds to me like it might well work ok.
Deisel lasts longer, less maintenence, less noise, cost less to purchase by the gallon etc. etc. etc.
Everyone told him DEISEL and he bought gas. Why ask?
Scott
Everyone told him DEISEL and he bought gas. Why ask?
Scott
I don't know of any generators that run on propane.
He bought a gasoline generator. The 100 peso per gallon stuff. But that is not the main problem. Problem is gas generators are a bit over rated. They can't handle the same load as their deisel counter parts even if they are rated the same. They have to run at high rpm's under load. 5,000 or 6,000 rpm. They make a ton of noise. Deisels are much more efficient. They love to run for long periods of time. Under high loads they are still running around 2,000 rpm. The super silents are just that, silent. If you have your windows shut you won't even know it's on. As for exaust, just attach a pipe. 10 - 15 feet will do just fine or you could be a complete nut like me and run a 45 foot pipe up over the roof of the building.
Bottom line, gas generators are nothing more than consumer based toys. They are not designed to be put to use on a continual basis. Hell just fire up that honda and draw a decent load from it. Listen to how hard it is working.
My Denyo which is only 12.5 kw, doesn't even change it's idle when I throw the breaker which kicks in lights, tv's, hot water heater and a 60,000 BTU 5 tonladas Carrier split A/C. It just hums marrily away.
He bought a gasoline generator. The 100 peso per gallon stuff. But that is not the main problem. Problem is gas generators are a bit over rated. They can't handle the same load as their deisel counter parts even if they are rated the same. They have to run at high rpm's under load. 5,000 or 6,000 rpm. They make a ton of noise. Deisels are much more efficient. They love to run for long periods of time. Under high loads they are still running around 2,000 rpm. The super silents are just that, silent. If you have your windows shut you won't even know it's on. As for exaust, just attach a pipe. 10 - 15 feet will do just fine or you could be a complete nut like me and run a 45 foot pipe up over the roof of the building.
Bottom line, gas generators are nothing more than consumer based toys. They are not designed to be put to use on a continual basis. Hell just fire up that honda and draw a decent load from it. Listen to how hard it is working.
My Denyo which is only 12.5 kw, doesn't even change it's idle when I throw the breaker which kicks in lights, tv's, hot water heater and a 60,000 BTU 5 tonladas Carrier split A/C. It just hums marrily away.
Honda does.....
I know Honda EM6000GP is a PROPANE generator, is it available HERE, good question????? and they make a conversion kit from gas to propane, also.....
I am looking into this further, and probably will be my choice for purchase, if and when and where......
I know Honda EM6000GP is a PROPANE generator, is it available HERE, good question????? and they make a conversion kit from gas to propane, also.....
I am looking into this further, and probably will be my choice for purchase, if and when and where......
Escott said:
As I said, he bought the right thing for the size load he has.
Diesel does not make sense for a small load. It sounds like he can run everything with a 1.5KW inverter. The smallest diesel generator is around 12KW. What he has will probably work with his 4.5KW gasoline generator.
If he had diesel, due to the size of the generator being 3X larger than he needs, he'd be buying 3X the amount of fuel to run it. Diesel may be cheaper, but not when the size is that mismatched.
For small loads, gasoline is the way to go. For big loads, diesel is the way to go.
In fact, he might have been better off with buying 16 batteries for his inverter and not messing around with a generator, as Rocky says. But he'll learn that in a few weeks.
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Mr. Belga,
According to the manual, the peak charging rate for a Trace/Xantrex 1512 is 70 amps, which should only take around 3.5 hours to charge 2 225AH batteries.
However a 4.5 kilo Honda generator is not going to give you 70 amps of useable current for charging (something about the waveform on smaller generators) It will give you closer to 40 amps assuming it is well tuned and running perfectly, (also assuming you are not putting additional load on it by running appliances in the house) so it will take you at least 6 hours to charge your batteries.
Running a gas generator for 6 hours under a heavy load is not recommendable and I am speaking from hard experience.
You would be better off to buy 2 more batteries and try to economize your usage a bit more. If you are going through 2 batteries in 7 hours you are using an average 700 watts electricity at a given moment. Get some low consumption light bulbs or a smaller tv and extend those 7 hours a bit more. I hope you are not trying to use a fridge with only 2 batteries. (I have 8 and can just barely manage the fridge)
Instead of relying on your generator to charge your batteries, use it for the 1-2 hours between the time your batteries quit and the street lights come back on.
According to the manual, the peak charging rate for a Trace/Xantrex 1512 is 70 amps, which should only take around 3.5 hours to charge 2 225AH batteries.
However a 4.5 kilo Honda generator is not going to give you 70 amps of useable current for charging (something about the waveform on smaller generators) It will give you closer to 40 amps assuming it is well tuned and running perfectly, (also assuming you are not putting additional load on it by running appliances in the house) so it will take you at least 6 hours to charge your batteries.
Running a gas generator for 6 hours under a heavy load is not recommendable and I am speaking from hard experience.
You would be better off to buy 2 more batteries and try to economize your usage a bit more. If you are going through 2 batteries in 7 hours you are using an average 700 watts electricity at a given moment. Get some low consumption light bulbs or a smaller tv and extend those 7 hours a bit more. I hope you are not trying to use a fridge with only 2 batteries. (I have 8 and can just barely manage the fridge)
Instead of relying on your generator to charge your batteries, use it for the 1-2 hours between the time your batteries quit and the street lights come back on.
I have a 6.5KW generator. It charges my 1.5KW inverter (4 batteries) and runs everything in my house including A/C & fridge.
That works, and has worked for almost a year now.
He's not got A/C, which reduces the load by 1.5KW. I doubt he has as much electrical stuff as I do, either. Therefore he should be fine.
In the trace manual it says lesser power generators WILL work, but may not fully charge the batteries, or just charge a bit slower. It doesn't read to me like its too serious.
Either way, my setup works fine, and is similar to his.
That works, and has worked for almost a year now.
He's not got A/C, which reduces the load by 1.5KW. I doubt he has as much electrical stuff as I do, either. Therefore he should be fine.
In the trace manual it says lesser power generators WILL work, but may not fully charge the batteries, or just charge a bit slower. It doesn't read to me like its too serious.
Either way, my setup works fine, and is similar to his.
adrianb said:In fact, he might have been better off with buying 16 batteries for his inverter and not messing around with a generator, as Rocky says. But he'll learn that in a few weeks.
Just because you add batteries doesn't mean you are getting more time and more power. I have a 2kilo watt inverter and 4 deep cycle batteries. It is recommended that you slow-charge your batteries to prolong the battery life. Now i need 14 hours to charge my 4 batteries to full capacity. Imagine if you have 8, 12 or even 16 batteries??? you would need a huge charger to change the batteries and for many hours (20 hours, maybe) and then you will be able to get full benefit out of it. Now that we have 10-12 hours of blackouts / day, you will never be able to charge your batteries. I don't care if you have 100 batteries connected you will not get any benefit. Your inverter will discharge and you will be in a black out just me.
So please folks, understand the full concept of inverters / battery relationship and know your needs before you start loading up your house with 20 batteries. I see some people really don't understand the concept of generating their own electricity or understand their own needs. Please talk to a professional before you make the purchase.
AZB
A 1.5 KW inverter can only put out 1.5kw of electric no matter how many batteries you have. It also will not run A/C no matter how hard you tryadrianb said:
You can tell a trace inverter how to recharge the batteries because it is adjustable.I think it is a better investment to go Diesel for sure. Even if he gets a 8k Diesel he would be better off. You only lose if you don't go to 50% of the size of the Generator. So recharging your batteries and running your house will take the 4k right off the top.
Scott
AZB said:
Partially correct, AZB, 1/2 a point! But unfortunately there's a big difference between "optimum" usage, and "practical/pragmatic/everyday" usage.
This situation you describe is when a generator becomes useful - if for a long time you are not getting enough electricity.
However, there's a pretty good chance - as Marco wrote - that with a bigger battery bank, and careful consumption - you will not be draining the batteries very much when the power is out. Therefore your 16 batteries might last for a week on a small load. No, they won't charge up properly. No, its not the most efficient use for them. But that doesn't matter.
Because what it DOES mean you don't need a generator, and therefore having to be spending money on fuel, oil changes, maintenance, etc. So the difference of not using the batteries 100% efficiently and having them last less time easily makes up for it. I don't know what the difference will be, but I do know that it will be MUCH less than you spend on a generator, not to mention a huge time saver.
Additionally, if you periodically deep charge the batteries as previously discussed by TimH, that will probably make up for the slow charging.
What this does not take into account is if you want an A/C or hot water. I require AC, so therefore I got a generator.
You can buy a kubota 6.5 kw diesel generator. They are pretty small, only weigh about 100 pounds.
Trying to run that gas generator to keep those 2 batteries charged..... well once it self destructs, they are just going to have to replace it with a diesel anyways.
Why repeat the mistakes of others?
Trying to run that gas generator to keep those 2 batteries charged..... well once it self destructs, they are just going to have to replace it with a diesel anyways.
Why repeat the mistakes of others?
gringo in dr said:
Diesel generators smaller than about 20KW are not supposed to be a good idea. There's a reason why you can't find many of them. I don't remember the exact issue.
I was told by several people that under 15KW gasoline is better. Additionally, a diesel generator is approx twice the price. For a smaller unit it makes more sense to consider the gasoline generator more "disposable", and replace it after a couple of years. But they don't break down THAT much. Mine has a year of running perfectly.
Have you actually used a gasoline generator? It sounds like you have not.