From one of these outfits like Stewart Title, First American..etc...If you get a certificado de titulo from the department of registry? Is it worth buying some title insurance if you obtain this certificate and it is clear from that department? What are your thoughts on this matter? Thanks.
- Thread starter AndyGriffith
- Start date
Is It Worth Buying Title Insurance....
"Thoughts" are worthless. Or motivated.
"First-hand experience"!
Did any one evere receive even one peso from a Dominican "title insurance company"?
Another question from myself - Do "licensed law binded" RE agents exist in this country? Or only "self-proclaimed"?
Well are they Dominican based or U.S. based? I remember reading on here someone mentioned that sometimes there are so many clauses and exemptions in the title insurance that sometimes it negates the reason to have the insurance in the first place.
I'm no expert on title insurance but there was a big problem with Stewert not paying people when I lived in Costa Rica because, the title insurance guaranteed that at the time of purchase that the title is clean. What was happening though was the titles kept getting switched after-the-fact via unscrupuous lawyers/developers/politicos and their buddy's on the inside at the registro. So people came back down to Costa Rica, found their property had been re-sold and their title insurance was worthless.
I would ask A LOT of questions before buying title insurance n Latin America.
I would ask A LOT of questions before buying title insurance n Latin America.
This is a good question and I have begun to look into this myself.
What I have found out thus far is that a key point is to find out what the title insurance contract states in regards to what law will be prevailing.
In other words if it is with Stuart which I think their office is in Florida then the question becomes does Florida law prevail and therefore become the law that will interpret the contract or will it be Dominican law because that is where the property is located ?
Also I have been told that some title insurance companies unknowing to the purchaser only insure you for the cost of the policy. So in other words if you paid $1000 and things go south then they are only obligated to reimburse you the grand. So this is also important to establish and the most desirable language would be for the contract to state that you are insured for the value of the property at the time that you make your claim ie: 10 years from now.
I just started looking into this and will keep you guys apprised of what I find out and please do the same
What I have found out thus far is that a key point is to find out what the title insurance contract states in regards to what law will be prevailing.
In other words if it is with Stuart which I think their office is in Florida then the question becomes does Florida law prevail and therefore become the law that will interpret the contract or will it be Dominican law because that is where the property is located ?
Also I have been told that some title insurance companies unknowing to the purchaser only insure you for the cost of the policy. So in other words if you paid $1000 and things go south then they are only obligated to reimburse you the grand. So this is also important to establish and the most desirable language would be for the contract to state that you are insured for the value of the property at the time that you make your claim ie: 10 years from now.
I just started looking into this and will keep you guys apprised of what I find out and please do the same
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As a general rule not limited to Title Insurance companies, pleas keep in mind, that usually, foreign companies offering services are either required (banks) to or just do incorporate in the Dominican Republic, even when using the same name (Scotia Bank, Citi Bank, Nestle, Mc Donalds... etc) and logos.
When you deal with these companies here, contracts are subject to DOMINICAN LAW ONLY. Even if you are citizen of the world's most powerful country or of the same country of "origin" of that company or happen to pay with your credit card from abroad. The contract will be written with a DOMINICAN company and are subject to local law exclusively.
Land and title laws as well as laws relative to leans originated from contractors' claims or other creditors may differ very much from those of your county of origin too. So, the issues and thus needs may not be the sames as when dealing with real estate transactions in your country of origin (E. g.: the US where Title insurance is a common tool).
That being said, it HAS been suggested on this forum in the past, that one advantage of using title insurance, where available in this country could include the benefit of an independent professional "Due Diligence". In other words, that IF the title insurance would not accept the risk, it could/would mean, that the deal may have been found questionable or even clearly uncovered as potentially fraudulent. Some even suggested that the cost of such a policy may be equal or similar to contracting a title search by a legal service... and thus, a round deal, as it also includes the policy's protection afterward.
I can't however remember having read of any documented example.
I understand that Steward Title Insurance was being plugged about 2 years ago in combination with some newer luxury development offerings in the South East of the Country involving "US" developers with very recognizable names.
I am not aware that STI has actively sought to offer their services for "generic" every day deals all over the island. If they have done so, they have not been very "public" about it. But then, I don't "see" everything either and I must admit, it's not something I have dedicated much interest to.
... J-D.
When you deal with these companies here, contracts are subject to DOMINICAN LAW ONLY. Even if you are citizen of the world's most powerful country or of the same country of "origin" of that company or happen to pay with your credit card from abroad. The contract will be written with a DOMINICAN company and are subject to local law exclusively.
Land and title laws as well as laws relative to leans originated from contractors' claims or other creditors may differ very much from those of your county of origin too. So, the issues and thus needs may not be the sames as when dealing with real estate transactions in your country of origin (E. g.: the US where Title insurance is a common tool).
That being said, it HAS been suggested on this forum in the past, that one advantage of using title insurance, where available in this country could include the benefit of an independent professional "Due Diligence". In other words, that IF the title insurance would not accept the risk, it could/would mean, that the deal may have been found questionable or even clearly uncovered as potentially fraudulent. Some even suggested that the cost of such a policy may be equal or similar to contracting a title search by a legal service... and thus, a round deal, as it also includes the policy's protection afterward.
I can't however remember having read of any documented example.
I understand that Steward Title Insurance was being plugged about 2 years ago in combination with some newer luxury development offerings in the South East of the Country involving "US" developers with very recognizable names.
I am not aware that STI has actively sought to offer their services for "generic" every day deals all over the island. If they have done so, they have not been very "public" about it. But then, I don't "see" everything either and I must admit, it's not something I have dedicated much interest to.
... J-D.
Stewart Title Insurance offers title insurance for properties in the Dominican Republic that may even only be worth $10,000 USD
What I was referring to was the interpretation of the contract.
In many of contracts they will have a clause in which will say something like "The interpretation of this contract will be governed by the laws of the State Of New York"
When one signs a contract with such a clause one gives up ones rights to "enforce" the contract under an other countries or even a states law.
"Even if you are citizen of the world's most powerful country " :ermm: or a citizen of the Dominican Republic as well :bunny:
The reason I brought this up and felt it was important enough to bring up is the bottom line is if Stewart represents that the title is being delivered clear and free and then something "pop's" up later, your main concern is the enforcement of the contract that you have with Stewart... ie. to get them to pay you and make you whole, so it is important to know if Stewart does not want to pay and it becomes necessary to litigate, in what court would you would be making your application.
Absolutely: So again Stewart and yourself would want a clear title under Dominican Laws because that is where a cause of action for title would be brought in a Dominican Court without doubt.
But remember when we are talking about enforcement of the contract and cause of action for title we are talking about two very distinct and separate things.
Yeah I know what you mean here but truth be told I have one of their applications in front of me and they rely on a list of local Dominican Lawyers to do the research for them so if your lawyer is on that list he has to fill out the forms and you pay him for that. Stewart does not provide suggestions or guidance on what you should pay an attorney for doing this.
Again to make this clear, for eg. The Guzman firm is on the list of attorneys that Stewart accepts so if The Guzman firm represented you in the transaction they would do the research and report back to Stewart. Stewart does not have their own independent people performing research
:squareeye:rambo:
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I recommend that you post your question in the Legal section and see what Fabio Guzman has to say on the subject. Real estate is one of their areas of specialization. In fact, his firm is the #1 real estate law firm in the DR.
Real Estate in Dominican Republic
Fabio only answers questions in the Legal section.
My first property purchase here was Titled and insured by Stewart Title. In fact, when it transpired that 'my' property already had more than 300 separate Titles issued on it, we approached Stewart Title to seek their opinion. As the property did not have a 'Deslinde' issued on it as the ultimate 'proof' of ownership, the insurance was worthless.
Our case turned out OK in the end, but not because of Stewart Title and the money we wasted buying their policy.
Our case turned out OK in the end, but not because of Stewart Title and the money we wasted buying their policy.
2 properties 2 policies
Well,
in my opinion I would never purchase property without title insurance. I have properties in DR with both First American and Stewart. Stewart now will do everything including escrow and the complete closing which is one reason some lawyers do not like them...... Title Insurance YES !!
carib
Well,
in my opinion I would never purchase property without title insurance. I have properties in DR with both First American and Stewart. Stewart now will do everything including escrow and the complete closing which is one reason some lawyers do not like them...... Title Insurance YES !!
carib
Carib, do's your policy cover you if after you buy it someone gets a new title on it? i.e. I've heard from multiple sources that Stewert only guarantees title at the moment of sale. So, if the day after you buy it some scumbag realtor/lawyer and his brother at the municipality create and register 10 more titles, you're S.O.L.
This is the bottom line.
"OR" what if the lawyer doing the research for Stewart gets duped and the real owner shows up 3 years down the line ???
Bottom line question.......... Bottom line..........Do they pay you and make you whole if the title you insured with them is in anyway invalidated.
I called Stuart and I believe the representative I talked to ( a specialist) did not even know the answer.
Her reply was I'll send you a policy and you can read it. :surprised
Registered realtors in the North coast
The biggest problem is that most people search for properties and don`t even think of asking a realtor if they are a registered company or not. Even worse, 60% or more of all realtors you find online operate out of a mobile phone and a website, no office, Tax ID or legal records. If you get in trouble, you have a narrow margin of legally pursuing any type of demand.
All this happens because of an inefficient government that does not regulate agencies, and the competitive nature of the business ( owners will receive a client from anyone, they just want to sell ).
My advice is to inquire on whether the realtor is a registered Dominican Republic company, with an office address, Tax ID and local business phone.
Before the end of 2010 there will be a registered realtors certification by the new association of North Coast Realtors. You can find more information on the association by calling 809-571-1001. If you are a realtor, call to get your email subscribed and get the updates for the upcoming meetings.
The biggest problem is that most people search for properties and don`t even think of asking a realtor if they are a registered company or not. Even worse, 60% or more of all realtors you find online operate out of a mobile phone and a website, no office, Tax ID or legal records. If you get in trouble, you have a narrow margin of legally pursuing any type of demand.
All this happens because of an inefficient government that does not regulate agencies, and the competitive nature of the business ( owners will receive a client from anyone, they just want to sell ).
My advice is to inquire on whether the realtor is a registered Dominican Republic company, with an office address, Tax ID and local business phone.
Before the end of 2010 there will be a registered realtors certification by the new association of North Coast Realtors. You can find more information on the association by calling 809-571-1001. If you are a realtor, call to get your email subscribed and get the updates for the upcoming meetings.
This thread is about the worthiness or value of buying title insurance so I don't understand the relevance or significance you are placing on having a licensed real estate representative ??
The real estate agent does not guarantee you a free and clear title and only acts as a introductory service between potential buyer and seller.
All due diligence is the responsibility of the purchaser and the realtor makes no representations about the validity of the title nor insures you against any fraud or incompetence on behalf of the party you contract with to do a title search.
AEI License
They have talked for a long time about introducing a system similar to the US with a Broker and Agent license. The institution AEI Associacion Empresas Inmbilliarias are lobbying for it. But still nothing. The latest I heard was that they are trying too see how it is done in other LatAm contries like Colombia. I have said they should try and work with the DGII as by law you have to issue a comprobante fiscal when you collect a commision and if you pay a commision to an agent who is not Tax Registred then you have to issue a Comprobante para provedores informales and retain 10% for the DGII. Because in my opinion the important part is the commisions and treating the commision and other funds responsible and with transparency. By law here it actually has to be collected by a company. So there is already a law that if it worked it would improve the industry a lot. In Florida the main reason for Agents and Brokers loosing their license is not fraud or lack of education or something like that. The exam to become an agent is not very hard in Florida. They loose their license because they mismanage the funds like the commision. They comingle funds mixing commision funds with their own funds. The agents collect the commison without it going via the broker. It has to go via the broker. So what I am saying is that before they even talk about introducing a license system the AEI should make sure current laws are respected.
They have talked for a long time about introducing a system similar to the US with a Broker and Agent license. The institution AEI Associacion Empresas Inmbilliarias are lobbying for it. But still nothing. The latest I heard was that they are trying too see how it is done in other LatAm contries like Colombia. I have said they should try and work with the DGII as by law you have to issue a comprobante fiscal when you collect a commision and if you pay a commision to an agent who is not Tax Registred then you have to issue a Comprobante para provedores informales and retain 10% for the DGII. Because in my opinion the important part is the commisions and treating the commision and other funds responsible and with transparency. By law here it actually has to be collected by a company. So there is already a law that if it worked it would improve the industry a lot. In Florida the main reason for Agents and Brokers loosing their license is not fraud or lack of education or something like that. The exam to become an agent is not very hard in Florida. They loose their license because they mismanage the funds like the commision. They comingle funds mixing commision funds with their own funds. The agents collect the commison without it going via the broker. It has to go via the broker. So what I am saying is that before they even talk about introducing a license system the AEI should make sure current laws are respected.
North Coast Realtors
I would like to hear more about the new association of North Coast Realtors. Does the North Coast Realtors have an office?
I would like to hear more about the new association of North Coast Realtors. Does the North Coast Realtors have an office?
Again... this thread is about TITLE Insurance!
That being said, when you will have been around some time, you will come to realize that there will always be a little group of smarties trying to monopolize a market by strongarming themselves ahead by the means of some government contact.
There have been several associations pop up.... they usually don't go much farther than a couple of founding members doing some "tam-tam".
Anyone who makes buddies with them becomes a member ""we" got to get together and fight the "other" guys"... never a school, an exam... you know, B S !
That being said too and swinging back to the original subject at hand, I doubt the title insurance thing will really catch on here.
The best title "insurance" here, it to proceed with caution, select a reputed and capable lawyer EARLY on (BEFORE making any offers), select that lawyer NOT upon recommendation of the RE-"Agent" or the seller, and NOT taking any "tiguere" shortcuts a la "Dominican". Everything else stands high chances to get you burned, wipe you out.
... J-D.
You are right. The subject of Broker and Agents license does not belong in this thread. It is interesting though. Not so much when there will will be a licence system. More the fact that there does not exist a license system. And if there did it would not work probally because as you say it will become like a monopoly system. I will continue the discussion in another thread or start a new one. Regarding title insurance I agree with you that the best way to go is to find a good lawyer. And you find that lawyer yourself as a buyer. Could be recommend also via your chamber of commerce. Anothe wayr is doing it yourself. Checking the title and making the transfer of title to your name yourself. In the Capital it is not that hard.