• Thread starter "The Tourist Watcher"
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John: Architecture Dominican style

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"The Tourist Watcher"

Guest
John:

Your put down of Dominican architecture and houses in the Dominican Republic have brought you down to almost ridicule. In response to your nonsense about asking for US$1,000,000 to build a house in Santo Domingo, or for that matter in Boca Chica I replied to you that if I were to commission a million dollar house from a Mexican-graduated architect I would rather choose world class Architect Ricardo Legorreta than go with an unknown quantity like you.

Your reply was that you know Legorreta and that he has stated " I would only build a house for someone who deserves it" as meaning that $1,000,000 is small potatoes for him and that Dominicans could not afford him, or even be considered by him.

It so happens that Ricardo Legorreta builds for middle income people in places like Santa Fe, New Mexico a small little desert town with only 65,000 people, hardly a match for Santo Domingos monstrous apartment spread, and his condos, although beautifully designed with the greatest of taste and simplicity would be considered small potatoes here in Santo Domingo. Logarreta project company called ZOCALO is just another real estate venture like any other, nothing special. Anybody can buy one of his housing units. In fact, some of these condos in Santa Fe are quite small in comparison to high class Dominican Condos in the Piantini and Anacaona Avenue. For instance he has a 1022 sq.mt. apartment for $195,000. That is only 94 mts. Some of the Anacaona apartments have rooms that small. The largest unit called the "Dorado" model for $425,000 is a mere 2265sq.ft. or 210mts. That would be considered a low size unit in a high class neighborhood in Piantini. The 3br top of the line unit, the "Esquina" has bedrooms so small, Dominican high class families would not even consider it.

John, if any Dominican calls Logarreta and his Zocalo outfit to come to DR to design and construct, he would come running like a roadrunner. True he has some real expensive mansions in Hollywood, but he also builds where the money is. And DR has plenty of that. It is just that we do not need him. As far as you are concerned, if you think DR is so small and tacky for you, what are you doing here? Looking for any business?

TW
 
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John

Guest
TW, I dont want to get into personals offenses, but if you want to talk about architecture, lets do it in person, not reading some books before posting. most of your posts are just taking from newspapers, magazines and internet.
If you know that much about Ricardo Legorreta, lets just have a meet and talk about him. I have his phone # with me, so i can invite you to talk to him whenever you want.
For you information. Dominican architecture doesnt exist. but there is a mexican architecture, and very rich.
Mexican houses has Character; dominican houses dont.
it is hard to say this, because i am dominican, but this is the true.
One time a very rich dominican went to mexico invited by a Mexican executive who lodged him at the Camino Real in Mexico City and he didnt like it. He asked for a 5 star hotel like Jaragua.
The mexican told him. we dont have hotels like Jaragua. we have 5 stars hotels. hotels without casino and disco and prostitutes around the lobby. but our hotels are monumental, with class, and character.
you know what i mean. I live in Los cacicazgos, just one corner north of Anacaona ave. and you know what?, those apartments that you mention are overvalued and doesnt have architecture. this kind of buildings you can find anywhere in the world, even in nicaragua, costa rica, el salvador,etc, but mexican architecture dont.
Next time you read, you better read twice. Santa Fe is one of the most impressive neighborhoods i had ever seem. it is located in the suburbs of mexico city. not Santa Fe, new mexico.
they have great buildings with monumental mexican architecture. here is located Universidad Iberoamericana and Santa Fe Mall. the best of Legorreta.
I think this is the end. sorry by i wont reply to you. next time you want to talk about architecture, lets do it in person, WITHOUT BOOKS. and without fakes numbers without a source.
 
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"The Tourist Watcher"

Guest
Re: WRONG AGAIN JOHN!!!!!!

John:

The next time you post, be sure to check your sources. Santa Fe is in New Mexico, in the United States, not Mexico city like you state. Architect Ricardo Legorreta has a project named ZOCALO in that city, just five minutes from downtown Santa Fe on US Highway 285. just off state Road 599. I even found a sales prospectus for you in the link included here. I do not deal with fake figures.

I am surprised that if you know Ricardo Legorreta so well and even have his phone number, which I can get for you too, you dont know where his commercial middle class projects are.

I am not interested in getting into arguments with you either or even discuss architecture with you. I have my own crowd that I discuss art with. I dont need art partners.

And, I apologize for reading books, newspapers, magazines and even having to go to college to learn. I guess you were born a genius and know everything without reading and research. Perhaps a little research will help you get your information right. People here want to believe what you post. I have been to Mexico and Mexico City is a dump ready to fall into a clay hole with unbreathable air, and with the next earthquake it might not even have a five class hotel standing.

TW
 
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Lio

Guest
Minor Correction, TW, *PIC*

The link you post, is not the correct link. here is the correct link
 
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"The Tourist Watcher"

Guest
Re: Thanks Lio...you made my point. *DC*
 
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John

Guest
TW, choice the day

Well, arrogant TW, why people will be interested in the small zocalo project in Santa Fe, new mexico, when he has one of the largest and most impressive project called Santa Fe in Mexico City. For you information. Mexico city has maybe, the best technology against earthquake after '85. in my years in Mexico there were at least 20 earthquakes from 5.5 to 6.5 and nothing happened. wait for a 6.5 earthquake here and you wont see any of those towers in ave. Anacaona again.
you started wanted to talk about architecture with me. so the invitation is still here. you can choice a public place, date and hour. we can invite some DR1's members.
we can talk not just about Legorreta, but what about Phillip johnson or thomas jefferson, or you prefer michael graves?. are them unknow for you? here one easy frank lloyd Wright (we can talk for hours about Guggengeim). you dont like americans? so, let go to germany, here one easy: lets talk about Bauhaus' walter gropious or you prefer Frei Otto or Mies Van der Rohe? you dont like germans either?
lets talk about spanish architecture, easy not? what you prefer Candela or Gaud??, oh you want to talk about High Tech. well, be careful, here I am an expert: my favorites: Richard Rogers (oh my Lloyd's of London, i love it.), Norman Foster and? oh my god, i can't believe I forgot the other one from the Group of 3. Can you refresh my memory?
Oh no, maybe we will need more than one day. we can't leave out Le corbusier, Kenzo tange, Ralph Cram and his Catedral of St. John, mario bota, ricardo bofill (not the one you know.)
Louis Khan? had you been in Yale University?
do you want latins? lets talk about Barrag?n or Lucio Costa or you prefer Agust?n Hernandez?
Take your time to prepare yourself. i have one of the largest collections of books available for you anytime. and when you are ready, let me know.
 
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hillbilly

Guest
Gentlemen, gentlemen...

I have enjoyed this tiff, which is getting down to the one we saw with "cejay"/ Come on, now.
Here is a question for both of you: Do you know Francisco Camarena?
Who built Julio's house in Punta Cana?

TW, get off your high horse and be nice!
John, no one is putting you down, but it seems that you are just a bit too proud or took offence too easily here.

And I beg to differ: There IS Dominican arquitecture. Not famous, but it is growing. Remember that for years our monuments were built by European arquitects and designers. Our most famous builders were mostly trained in Europe and the States. After all, there is only so much a small country can do. In the same vein, there is no Salvadorean, Guatemalan, Honduran, Nicaraguan or Costarican, puertorican, or cuban arquitecture. And as for "Mexican" arquitecture, i think I can make an argument that it is still growing. After all, remember that in 1910, at that famous art show in Mexico City to celebrate Porfirio Diaz'40 years of government, there were no Mexican artists at all!! Same thing here. Our arquitects are growing, and some of them are good, very good.

so gentlemen, let's tone this down a bit, okey. Go have that talk over a few good drinks...

HB
 
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pepe

Guest
Re: Gentlemen, gentlemen...

Two good brains to me. Why not join forces and push in the same direction. All we are looking for is el bienestar de la republica.
 
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azb

Guest
Re: do you know jefe Antonio?

Well, he is the famous beer belly architect who built the ugly house where i live. hehehehe
 
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Santiago Fittipaldi

Guest
Re: WRONG AGAIN JOHN!!!!!!

TW- I'm sorry to say that this time it's you who are wrong. I am Dominican but lived in Mexico City for two years, in the Lomas de Chapultepec neighborhood near Boulevard Virreyes. Not too far from there, continuing along Paseo de la Reforma, is the neighborhood called Santa Fe which contains all the buildings that the other poster was referring to. The area was originally a poor neighborhood but has been transformed into one of the metropolitan area's (it's not in the Distrito Federal, but in the Estado de Mexico) newest upscale places to live and work. There are some very elegant residential buildings, the city's best mall, several corporate campuses (including Televisa), a Sheraton hotel, and the Jesuit-run Universidad Iberoamericana. The architecture there is truly innovative. While I think that the other poster's attitude leaves much to be desired, I can attest to the fact that this time around he is right and you are wrong about the Santa Fe that he's talking about. He DOES NOT mean Santa Fe, New Mexico. Furthermore, I am surprised to hear anyone defending Dominican architecture since it was just recently that I posted a message stating my indignation at plans to knock down the Teatro de Agua y Luz in Santo Domingo and so many people responded that it was ugly, had no historical value and should be destroyed to make way for something else. I argued that it not only had historical value but was part of a Dominican architectural style that has slowly been falling victim to the wrecker's ball and no one has cared. Dominicans have to realize that there is indeed good architecture in the country that is worth saving and that not all of it has to do with the Spaniards and colonial days. I will again use a quote that I used in that previous posting: "History judges men not by the monuments they build, but by the ones that they destroy". If you're going to be so proud of good Dominican architecture, then do something about saving what little is left.
 
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John

Guest
to Santiago

Well, santiago i am a dominican defendant, but in this case we cant really talk about dominican architecture, it doesnt exist. We had a good architecture back in the 50's in Gazcue, Centro de los Heroes, etc. I like Guillermo Gonzalez. his modern architecture is still there. but what else do we have? those ugly buildings around Anacaona Ave.? you can find hundreds of them in mexico anywhere and nobody will even pay attention to them. you know what i mean, if you live in Lomas. I used to work a lot in that area and around Bosque de las Lomas. I left mexico in '95 when the economic when down. at that moment Santa Fe was just starting, there were few buildings with the greatest architecture i ever seem in a latin country.
I used to live in Polanco, just behind amphitheather Angela Peralta. !what an architecture! what do you think?
i did the landscaping architecture for Zona Rosa back in '93, how it looks right now? i did a lot of changes in Copenhague street, it wasnt pedestrian before. What a class in that street, el perro andaluz, el perro del enfrente. fridays, etc.
what about Coyoac?n? do they still have those Sundays? what about saturdays in San Angel? that's art, culture.
I really miss them, those Chiles in Nogadas in La Hacienda de Los Morales, uhmm. I feel like i will like to take the first plane to mexico now, but i cant, so much work. i will be there for sure in February.
Do you know which are the best clubs to hang out now? i used to love those clubs-cafe around centro historico. !what atmosphere! are there still good?
had you been to La casa de los Azulejos. that's architecture.
 
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"The Tourist Watcher"

Guest
Re: to Santiago and John

Gentlemen: I believe both of you have taken this discussion totally out of the context I meant to take it. This has nothing to do with Mexico City or Mexican architecture. It has to do with the fact that John stated, and I QUOTE" that Ricardo Legorreta does not build a house for anybody who does not deserve it", meaning that if someone, you or me, or anybody can come up with the stated figure of US$1,000,000 and commissioned this mexican architect to build you a house, he would turn you down, unless you were perhaps a celebrity or a king. In others words he does not build houses just for money, but for posterity and history!!!

Well, I begged to differ with John and still do, and presented the proof by indicating that Legorreta builds middle income housing for anybody regardless of their social status, and that all it takes is to come up with $US$200,000 to own a normal condo in a small little village of 65,000 people called Santa Fe, New Mexico with the Legorreta logo from his company ZOCALO. Is that so hard to understand?????

Wether by coincidence, or not the fact that he built a golden palace with diamonds in a Santa Fe neighborhood in glorious Mexico City costing billions or whatever price you want to peg on it(a little cynicism here), does not deny the fact that Legorreta has just finished a project for middle income buyers in the middle of a desert little town called Santa Fe, which is in New Mexico(Not Mexico City)on US highway 285 in the United States.(Is any more proof needed?) They even send you a prospectus if you request it and even worse, they have a web page that has fastidious pop-ups announcing the project, which are very un-Legorreta-like. Is that also hard to understand?????

And John, let me say that I lived for 9 years in Chicago and 10 years in New York City, two of the largest cities in America. The name of Philip Johnson to me is as common as Sammy Sosa. Anyone who lives in great cities is accustomed to passing by and even walking inside Johnson works of art as if nothing ever happened. I used to drive almost weekly thru the Evanston and Glencoe communities(Chicago suburbs), homes of various Frank LLoyd Wright famous houses and imitations around them. To me, seeing great architecture is commonplace. I am not like your typical Dominican who walks around without noticing history around them. But I just take it for granted because I lived there. I have seen works of art hardly any Dominicans have seen, like Guernica at the Museum of Modern Art and most rare even, Andy Warhol giant depiction of Chairman Mao Tse Tung. I am not easily impressed. I was at the last Barnett Newman exhibition after he committed suicide, a rare display of black and gray toned paintings called "The Stations of the Cross" in New York that marked the end of an era of giants like him and Mark Rothko(who also committed suicide) I have yet to see anyone I know who saw this exhibition and even books are hard to find on it. So, am I impressed?? No sir. But I stick to what I said. Legorreta will build not only for a million...he will do it for even $200,000.
 
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Herwin Kahn

Guest
Re: to Santiago and John and "TW"

So Mister TW,You are not like your "typical" Dominican? Some people can,t see the "Forest for the Trees"! You ARE a "typical" Dominican! You are an "American Wanabe"! You live here only because in the US "everyone" can "see-through" your phony act.Here, you are a "Big Fish,in a Little Pond"!You are impressed with Tony Romas? and OutBack SteakHouse?,(should be "Out House!)and Fridays?,and Tommy Hilfigers "fashions"? This is "Fast Food", and "Fast Clothes"! This Mr Chris Colon was right you don,t know "Drek!" Herwin Khan
 
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"The Tourist Watcher"

Guest
Re: to Santiago and John and "TW"

Mr. Agha Khan(aka) Criss Colon:

Your Southern Illinois demeanor just came thru. Now I know who is Mr. Hyde from the two of you.

TW
Your all American Dominican, and Bill Clinton(lover boy) admirer(best President of the USA ever). TW the man that can eat just as well at Asti,s in the Village as in fast food Tony Romas. Its all part of the American culture. Love hot dogs at the ballpark too. By the way I swear my allegiance to Hans Hertell, not to Hipolito.
 
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"The Tourist Watcher"

Guest
Re: Mr.Khan, you need to polish your English

Mr. Agha Khan:

Just a reminder:

1)Do not capitalize letters in the middle of a sentence(even if it is your typical Khan run-on type)unless they are proper names.

2)The word you meant was wannabe not wanabe. Although this is a slang type word, it comes from wanting to be and it has always been written as wanna.

3)Titles do not have commas in the middle("A Big Fish, in A Little Pond")

4)One of your questions should read "Are you impressed with Tony Romas?" not "You are impressed with Tony Romas?". We all believe you were making a statement but you posed a question.

5)Always be sure to place your capital letters in the right place. Even your software can do that for you.

6)Do not correct other people in areas where you are not profoundly professional at, or else your glass house will be broken.

TW
 
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