Juan Luis Guerra and learning Spanish

Status
Not open for further replies.
Hillbilly

Hillbilly

Moderator
Jan 1, 2002
18,948
514
113
I prefer "Amor de Conuco" since it is so similar to the Shepard's Lament : "come and live with me and be my love....."

Most of his music is made with a sense of message, and history and society. That is what sets him apart IMHO...really...he is a special talent.

Hb
 
N

Norma Rosa

Bronze
Feb 20, 2007
1,127
58
0
MaineGirl said:
Ojala que llueva cafe - una aventura dominicana

This site was identified as an open educational resource.
I'd like to share this particular song which is DR-related.

If you click "la canci?n" you will get to a guided reading/audio of the song.

I learned a few words just by going through this...

Well worth checking out.
Click to expand...

My Spanish 3 class just went over this song. They are studying the subjunctive and the song has several phrases with this verbal mood.

Pib, the word "ojal?" (Quisiera Dios, Dios quiera) is of Arab origin (Oh, Al?)
Quiera Dios que llueva caf?.

It can be translated also as I hope. . . (Although it is stronger than "I hope.")
 
Last edited:
Hillbilly

Hillbilly

Moderator
Jan 1, 2002
18,948
514
113
You might think: "Would that"....Would that it rains coffee, would that you will be my love. Sort of the poetic version.

Of course the Dios this is fine...

HB
 
M

Marianopolita

Former Spanish forum Mod 2010-2021
Dec 26, 2003
4,821
766
113
No real English equivalent but the meaning transcends~

Pib said:
Best song he ever wrote. I agree.


BTW, how do you tackle the word "ojal?" teaching SSL?
Click to expand...


Ojal? translates as- Will that xxxx (which is short for God willing that xxxx ) or as already mentioned espero= I hope but the nuance is slightly different (in my opinion). I agree with Norma ojal? is stronger and is always followed by the subjunctive.


----MP.
 
P

Pib

Goddess
Jan 1, 2002
3,668
20
38
www.dominicancooking.com
I never found an adequate equivalent for "ojal?" in English. It is more forceful than "would that" or "may it". It also has no religion connotation anymore, so "god willing" is out too.

Anyway, it is one of the coolest words in the Spanish language, and nothing can transmit the anger and frustration in Ojala by Silvio Rodriguez (one of the best songs ever written in Spanish)
 
M

Marianopolita

Former Spanish forum Mod 2010-2021
Dec 26, 2003
4,821
766
113
----

In the the title of my post #8 I put that there's 'no real English equivalent but the meaning transcends' as a preface to say that the meaning from one language to another may not be exact but it can give people an idea of what the word means in Spanish, the language in which it's used.

Now in your original question you asked in the context of "SSL". Therefore, I think it's always good to give students, learners, whoever etc the historical context of the word which two of us did in our posts even though the word may have lost its original meaning (to a certain degree) overtime. You say that it does not mean 'God willing' anymore. I do not agree or disagree mainly because I don't hear it used enough in various contexts to say for sure that the word has lost its original meaning one hundred percent (leaving the song out because words in songs can always mean something else if the singer wants them too).

So based on your last post what does "ojal?" mean then in English? I am just curious.


----MP.
 
J

jrhartley

Gold
Sep 10, 2008
8,190
580
0
65
If you go to the roots of the word (in Arabic it’s وشاء الله – wa-šā’ allāh), you’ll see that it roughly means “if God [Allah] wants it” or “and may God will it”. However, the best translation nowadays is “hopefully”, “let’s hope” or “I hope”.
 
N

Norma Rosa

Bronze
Feb 20, 2007
1,127
58
0
ojal?

jrhartley said:
If you go to the roots of the word (in Arabic it’s وشاء الله – wa-šā’ allāh), you’ll see that it roughly means “if God [Allah] wants it” or “and may God will it”. However, the best translation nowadays is “hopefully”, “let’s hope” or “I hope”.
Click to expand...

ojal?.

(Del ?r. hisp. law š? ll?h, si Dios quiere).

1. interj. Denota vivo deseo de que suceda algo.

Real Academia Espa?ola ? Todos los derechos reservados
Click to expand...

The term has always expressed a hope, a strong desire for something to happen.
 
Last edited:
N

Norma Rosa

Bronze
Feb 20, 2007
1,127
58
0
Ojal?

Here are some of my findings:

لو شاء الله (law sha'a Allah) "si Dios quisiera".

The pronunciation of that Arabic formula was :

In the Arabic-Andalusian dialect: "lawsha'all?h" - "lawshall?" then "loshal?"

Old Castilian: "oxal?" (It lost the initial l)

Modern Spanish: "ojal?". -


Here to help and learn,
Norma
 
Hillbilly

Hillbilly

Moderator
Jan 1, 2002
18,948
514
113
I guess that in English sh!t will become xit in Old Spanish and it in Modern Spanish?

Really, I enjoyed reading that tale of linguistic change....no xit!

HB
 
P

Pib

Goddess
Jan 1, 2002
3,668
20
38
www.dominicancooking.com
I understand the origin of the word ojal?, but remember that the Spanish monarchs were rabidly Catholic, if the word had retained any religious connotations by then the also-rabidly Catholic populace would have stopped using it. Imagine more than 500 years later. Only Grammar Nazis like us even remember that (as an exercise ask people on the street if they know it originally meant "Allah willing").

Ojal? allows some sort of distance from what is wished and who does it. "I wish" is more personal, "ojal?" sounds more like one hopes the planets align themselves to make what one wishes happen. I don't know, no English expression conveys the same. It happens.
 
N

Norma Rosa

Bronze
Feb 20, 2007
1,127
58
0
Pib, MP and I spoke of the origin of the word. If by no "religious connotations" you mean that people do not think about Allah when they say ojal?, then you are right -they are not thinking about such a God. Most people do not think of a supreme being when they say Oh my God! In the DR, Dios m?o, Si Dios quiere are heard countless times each day. Are they thinking about the God of Abraham? I don't think so.

The Muslims, who spent almost 800 years in Spain (711-1492) left a legacy of some 4,000 words or more and till this day we use such words. The Spanish monarchs were only able to throw the Jewish and Muslims out of their territory; they were not able to stop their influence.


ARABIC INFLUENCE IN SPANISH LANGUAGE
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom