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Don Juan

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Dec 5, 2003
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Read dr1's article today about the nasty treatment we dominicans receive by these Puerto Rican a-holes who think they're better because we pass through their isle as inmigrants and sometimes tourists.
I can validate this rough-hand behaviour on their part because it happen to me a couple of times. It's humiliating, enfuriating and demeaning.
If I can help it, I will never Pass through Mu?os-marin airport, much less visit their crime-ridden "country" ever again.
PeRros take note: If your mother didn't teach you respect for other human beings, then don't come to us. we don't need you or want your kind. comemierda!
 

jruane44

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Jul 2, 2004
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I agree with you that alot of Puerto Ricans treat Dominicans with a lack of repect. Take a good look at the way alot of Dominicans treat Hatains. This behavior is in every country in the world where one group of people feel superior to another group.
 

NALs

Economist by Profession
Jan 20, 2003
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Don Juan said:
Read dr1's article today about the nasty treatment we dominicans receive by these Puerto Rican a-holes who think they're better because we pass through their isle as inmigrants and sometimes tourists.
I can validate this rough-hand behaviour on their part because it happen to me a couple of times. It's humiliating, enfuriating and demeaning.
If I can help it, I will never Pass through Muños-marin airport, much less visit their crime-ridden "country" ever again.
PeRros take note: If your mother didn't teach you respect for other human beings, then don't come to us. we don't need you or want your kind. comemierda!
This was highly uncalled for.

Not every boricua thinks the same and they are just up to their eyeballs with Dominicans entering their island illegally and lowering wages in low skill sectors (lower wages to the Boricuas, those wages don't appear too low to Dominicans). Boricuas that would have done those jobs at higher wages have to either take government assistance or migrate to the US. In the same manner, Dominicans migrate to PR because wages are being depressed by Haitian migrants (depressed wages to the Dominicans, does not appear to be so to the Haitians since they keep filling the low paying job positions). This lowering of wages causes Dominicans to go abroad in search of better paying jobs since the jobs they would have done are not acceptable at the prevailing wage.

In a similar fashion, Haitians migrate to the DR because THERE ARE NO JOBS to speak of in Haiti. A country with a depressed economy and shrinking, constant revolutions that are not needed, environmental degredation that is affecting even the subsistence farmer by lowering their yeilds year after yeild, a pervasive aids problem that is affecting Haitians in their prime years, a very broken down infrastructure that makes similar route 30 minutes long in the DR turn to a 5 hour ordeal in Haiti, and little trade to help get the country back on its feet, and Haiti lack of foreign aid that wealthy nations were eager to stop giving to that country. All of this, contributes to the eastern, then northern flow of people.

Once Cuba becomes democratic and capitalistic where efficiency becomes king, the Haitians will have one more place to flood to supply their cheap labor, which will put low skill Cubans out of work because low skill Cubans will not work for the lower wages given the conditions, which will push Cubans to further flood southern Florida, which will lower the wages there, and the cycle continues.

In essence, the largest influence in lowering of wages in the Caribbean emits from most islands, but primarily from Haiti due to the large population and its problems.

If the peoples of the Caribbean want a more formal, legal, and acceptable flow of people across this archipelago, EVERYONE must start to help HAITI. I can't stress this enough, Haiti is not just a Dominican problem, but a broader Caribbean wide problem. Look at the islands in this archipelago, each deports hundreds and thousands of Haitians, more so than any other group of people getting deported from Caribbean islands to their homeland. Haiti's problems are a Caribbean wide problem and the Caribbean must help them together, because its obvious that Haiti either can't or don't want to help itself.

Sidenote: Does anyone have reliable information on the Aids epidemic in Haiti. Some countries in Africa are already showing a decreasing population due mostly to the Aids epidemic, given that Haiti's Aids rate is similar to the average African rate, it would be interesting to see what effect that is having on population growth. Haiti's life expectancy of around 51 years of age is mostly held down due to the Aids epidemic. I won't be surprised if Haiti starts to show a shrinking population, given the large outflow of people and the large number of Aids infected people in their prime child bearing age, not to mention all the newly born with Aids who will probably not make it to their 5th birthday without proper medication, add to that the serious food deficiency in that country and the situation is not pretty regardless what way one tries to look at it.

If this presumption is true, then the lowering of wages in the DR and Cuba (after Castro and Capitalism is back in full swing) will become a thing of the past as Haitian labor supply "dries up" due to falling population due to Aids and large outflows. Of course, Central America has plenty of people. so perhaps they will fill the gap.... if not, wages will begin to rise in DR, post-Castro Cuba, heck, even in Haiti itself and that is a good thing when it comes to standards of living for those employed.

It's just sad to think that it would take the demise of an entire country's population to cause wages and innovation to take place as oppose to economic growth which could have done the same without the elimination of massive amounts of people.

Again, these are all assumptions. If anyone has any data, please present them. Thanks.
 
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NALs

Economist by Profession
Jan 20, 2003
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jruane44 said:
I agree with you that alot of Puerto Ricans treat Dominicans with a lack of repect. Take a good look at the way alot of Dominicans treat Hatains. This behavior is in every country in the world where one group of people feel superior to another group.
Perhaps, loosing your job to a cheaper foreigner has nothing to do with this???

People are always quick to use the race, ethnic, and/or racism excuses to get their point across.

Never do people stop and review the data of what is really occuring. Nobody feels superior to nobody, but someone is giving a service at a price that others are not willing to perform under.

Dominicans initially used to cut Sugar cane, until the migrants from the British West Indies came to cut the sugar cane at a fraction of the prevailing Dominican wages, thus Dominicans were put out of work. Then, in the 1920s, Haitian migrants began arriving to offer their even more cheaper labor of cane cutting, putting the Dominicans of British West Indies decent (the cocolos) out of work!

This is all clearly visible in history and economics of these caribbean countries and it's a natural phase of migration.

However, some government exploits this natural occurence to pursue an anti-neighbor agenda and that is not acceptable from either sides, but the older aggressor out to cease their wound opening because the previous oppressed invaded people are not that fragile anymore. But, this will be suitable for a new thread...
 
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Ricardo900

Silver
Jul 12, 2004
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Don Juan said:
Read dr1's article today about the nasty treatment we dominicans receive by these Puerto Rican a-holes who think they're better because we pass through their isle as inmigrants and sometimes tourists.
I can validate this rough-hand behaviour on their part because it happen to me a couple of times. It's humiliating, enfuriating and demeaning.
If I can help it, I will never Pass through Mu?os-marin airport, much less visit their crime-ridden "country" ever again.
PeRros take note: If your mother didn't teach you respect for other human beings, then don't come to us. we don't need you or want your kind. comemierda!
No need to worry, Boricuas are generally tolerable with their Dominican situation, yes many Boricuas do have a chip on their shoulder, but they are part of the greatest nation in the world, what would you expect.
 

Don Juan

Living Brain Donor
Dec 5, 2003
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Two wrongs don't make a right.

jruane44 said:
I agree with you that alot of Puerto Ricans treat Dominicans with a lack of repect. Take a good look at the way alot of Dominicans treat Hatains. This behavior is in every country in the world where one group of people feel superior to another group.

I will not condone the way we dominicans treat our Haitian brothers nor will I overlook or disregard the way we're treated overseas. It's absolutely wrong to manhandle other people regardless of your nationality, race or motive.

But the one thing that angers me is the arrogant behaviour that these, if-it-were-not-for-the-US-we'd-be-****poor-too, Puerto Ricans usually demonstrate. This arrogant attitude is not exclusive to people in their little island. I've seen it in the continental US and, can you believe it? in DR itself!!

Generally speaking (with exeptions, of course) they seem to regard other latin american nationals as not up to their standards politically culturally,and especially, financially.

Before someone here trumps up the race card. let me tell you that I'm referring to an attitude issue not a racial one. We're all guilty at one time or another of thinking of someone else as a lesser being but hopefully we've learn that we're all equal regardless. If not, then you're still an a-hole
 

Yari

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Aug 18, 2005
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I think Nals was right about this post being uncalled for...I know what you read obviously got under your skin but you are acting with the same intolerance that they are.

Don Juan said:
Read dr1's article today about the nasty treatment we dominicans receive by these Puerto Rican a-holes who think they're better because we pass through their isle as inmigrants and sometimes tourists.
I can validate this rough-hand behaviour on their part because it happen to me a couple of times. It's humiliating, enfuriating and demeaning.
If I can help it, I will never Pass through Mu?os-marin airport, much less visit their crime-ridden "country" ever again.
PeRros take note: If your mother didn't teach you respect for other human beings, then don't come to us. we don't need you or want your kind. comemierda!

I also think that Nals is right about the Haiti situation...Until everyone pitches in to help them, it will ALWAYS be a problem. Pero el problema es que nadie quiere ayudar a nadie!
 

qgrande

Bronze
Jul 27, 2005
805
4
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Ricardo900 said:
yes many Boricuas do have a chip on their shoulder, but they are part of the greatest nation in the world, what would you expect.
you're American? if so, interesting way to prove your point..
 

Don Juan

Living Brain Donor
Dec 5, 2003
856
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Nalowhs and yari. so it's alright to humiliate people?!!!

How can you justify their conduct towards our people?
quote: "my reaction was uncalled for"...."I'm acting with the same intolerance as they are". end quote.
Are you excusing these peoples' behaviour? What is the matter with you all? What are you? Puerto Ricans? or are you trying to sound righteous so everyone here will think you're so civilized and tolerant??
If you were mistreated by anyone, would chuck it up to his/her rough upbringing? Would you say: oh that poor unfortunate person didn't have good parenting therefore let's not blame him for murdering someone....BS. In real life you won't stand for it, so don't give me your pompous rhetorical crap! get down from your moral perch. Co?o!!
 

Ricardo900

Silver
Jul 12, 2004
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qgrande said:
you're American? if so, interesting way to prove your point..
I know it was a needless plug, I just threw it in to emphasize that since Boricuas are americans many of them have that arrogant chip on their shoulders and you can see it on the mainland when they're are referring to Dominicans and Mexicans.
 

Marianopolita

Former Spanish forum Mod 2010-2021
Dec 26, 2003
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Where is the article?

Can someone please tell me where this article is. I went to the DR1 news and there are two articles about Haitian migration but I did not see anything about the OP's discussion topic.

Please and thank you.

LDG.


PD. I found it. The article is actually in the Oct 11, 2005 Daily News archives if anyone is looking for it.

Also I found it in another newspaper Dominicans protest treatment
 
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LatinoRican

New member
Apr 11, 2004
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Don Juan...

Please do not hold a grudge or ill-feelings towards ALL Puerto Ricans because of the way A FEW Puerto Rican Immigration Officials may have treated you!...;)
 

Ricardo900

Silver
Jul 12, 2004
3,269
37
48
Don't get bent out of shape

Don Juan said:
How can you justify their conduct towards our people?
quote: "my reaction was uncalled for"...."I'm acting with the same intolerance as they are". end quote.
Are you excusing these peoples' behaviour? What is the matter with you all? What are you? Puerto Ricans? or are you trying to sound righteous so everyone here will think you're so civilized and tolerant??
If you were mistreated by anyone, would chuck it up to his/her rough upbringing? Would you say: oh that poor unfortunate person didn't have good parenting therefore let's not blame him for murdering someone....BS. In real life you won't stand for it, so don't give me your pompous rhetorical crap! get down from your moral perch. Co?o!!
A few Puerto Ricans slightly embarrased a couple of Dominicans, so what! The situation as it stands is that Dominicans need Puerto Ricans and not the other way around, like it or not, it's just the way things are and won't change. Just like Haitians need Dominicans, it's a natural cycle that happens all over the world. Just be glad that there is no Xenophobia over there in PR.
 

NALs

Economist by Profession
Jan 20, 2003
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Don Juan said:
How can you justify their conduct towards our people?
quote: "my reaction was uncalled for"...."I'm acting with the same intolerance as they are". end quote.
Are you excusing these peoples' behaviour? What is the matter with you all? What are you? Puerto Ricans? or are you trying to sound righteous so everyone here will think you're so civilized and tolerant??
If you were mistreated by anyone, would chuck it up to his/her rough upbringing? Would you say: oh that poor unfortunate person didn't have good parenting therefore let's not blame him for murdering someone....BS. In real life you won't stand for it, so don't give me your pompous rhetorical crap! get down from your moral perch. Coño!!
Te mande un PM.

Entiendo tus preocupaciones, pero calmate.

Aqui nadie es un inutil, no estamos en un monte y esto no es una gallera virtual (imaginate tal cosa :) )

Lee el PM y luego respondeme en ese medio comunicativo.

-NAL
 
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DRsScarface

New member
Feb 26, 2004
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The DR PR situtation does get frustraing. But Don Juan is right about one thing, if PR wasn't part of the US they would be just as poor, if not poorer than the DR. They would be the FIRST ones on the boat. They tend to forget that before the U.S. started to give a damn about Puerto Rico, most of them lived in slums. This was not too long ago most of it happened in the second half of the 20th century.
 

NALs

Economist by Profession
Jan 20, 2003
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DRsScarface said:
The DR PR situtation does get frustraing. But Don Juan is right about one thing, if PR wasn't part of the US they would be just as poor, if not poorer than the DR. They would be the FIRST ones on the boat. They tend to forget that before the U.S. started to give a damn about Puerto Rico, most of them lived in slums. This was not too long ago most of it happened in the second half of the 20th century.
From my understanding, two-thirds of boricuas would qualify for government assistance.

It's obvious that the billions of transfer payments the island government receives is having an effect on their elevated standards of living, much how the transfer payments within the United States helps artificially elevate the standards of living of the poor in that country, despite the fact that the US is only ranks as the 38th most unequal nation on earth, 4 points below the Dominican Republic and the most unequal among the developed nations according to the United Nations data.

Why, then, does the poor Dominican lives much worst than the poor American does? Transfer payments is the answer. The same answer explains a good deal of Puerto Rico's inflated affluence, albeit Puerto Rico has achieved alot since the 1950s and there is plenty of legitimate wealth there both excessive and modest.

And yes, Puerto Rico would have been ranking among the least developed, if the United States would have never started to industrialize the country in the 1950s. In fact, the Dominican Republic traditionally received relatively large numbers of boricua immigrants along with Haitians, cocolos, and people from other places beyond the Caribbean region.

Despite the transfer payments, Puerto Rico still has slums, the one that comes to mind is La Perla clearly visible from Old San Juan and contrasts sharply with the modern luxury resorts of Condado and Isla Verde.

Having said all of this, there is no explanation for why Don Juan exploted in such an immature manner. He could have said everything he did posted in a much more tasteful manner.

Nobody here is contradicting what he is saying, rather how he said it.

-NAL

Sidenote: There is quite an anti-American sentiment brewing lately in Puerto Rico since the FBI killed a prominent leader of the Machetero indepent movement group. From what I have read thus far, they are practically waging war against the US, at the very least revenge of some sort. It would be interesting to see how this evolves...
 
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Yari

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Aug 18, 2005
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Hey man, the only reason I thought that your comment was uncalled for was because of the way that you said it. I in no way shape or form justified what the Bori's had to say. My point was that in calling people "comemierdas" you are not solving anything. You are just getting hot and bothered and condeming an entire group when they are not all the same. I never said anything to the effect of "oh those poor ricans".

So sorry bro, not trying to be politically correct or trying to be pompous.
yo no soy mejor que tu, ni tu mejor que yo!!

Yari

Don Juan said:
How can you justify their conduct towards our people?
quote: "my reaction was uncalled for"...."I'm acting with the same intolerance as they are". end quote.
Are you excusing these peoples' behaviour? What is the matter with you all? What are you? Puerto Ricans? or are you trying to sound righteous so everyone here will think you're so civilized and tolerant??
If you were mistreated by anyone, would chuck it up to his/her rough upbringing? Would you say: oh that poor unfortunate person didn't have good parenting therefore let's not blame him for murdering someone....BS. In real life you won't stand for it, so don't give me your pompous rhetorical crap! get down from your moral perch. Co?o!!
 

Tordok

Bronze
Oct 6, 2003
530
2
0
Don Juan,

Your frustration is understandable, however your style on this posting is not in keeping with your usual higher standards of discourse.

For what its worth, please also keep in mind that some of us have mixed ancestries that include both Dominican and Puerto Rican. And it pains me a lot whenever one derides the other, since I have personally experienced 99.9% of the time harmony and respect between people from both countries. And I did live in PR for many, many years. This is a recent problem due to the overwhelming numbers of undocumented Dominican nationals using the island of PR as stepping point to move to the US. They have no beef with documented travelers, even if occassionally some US Customs officials are abusively rude.

I think that any such generalizations -and it doesn't matter if it is a positive or a negative characterization- by any member of any national/ethnic/religious group about other groups, ultimately reveals that persons making them have their own tribalistic biases to resolve.

PAZ:classic:

- Tordok
 

NALs

Economist by Profession
Jan 20, 2003
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Tordok said:
Don Juan,

Your frustration is understandable, however your style on this posting is not in keeping with your usual higher standards of discourse.

For what its worth, please also keep in mind that some of us have mixed ancestries that include both Dominican and Puerto Rican. And it pains me a lot whenever one derides the other, since I have personally experienced 99.9% of the time harmony and respect between people from both countries. And I did live in PR for many, many years. This is a recent problem due to the overwhelming numbers of undocumented Dominican nationals using the island of PR as stepping point to move to the US. They have no beef with documented travelers, even if occassionally some US Customs officials are abusively rude.

I think that any such generalizations -and it doesn't matter if it is a positive or a negative characterization- by any member of any national/ethnic/religious group about other groups, ultimately reveals that persons making them have their own tribalistic biases to resolve.

PAZ:classic:

- Tordok
This pretty much sums everything as clear as water.