Ok. Now I am officially p@$:/ssed off. How come a newbie with omly anew posts can cut and paste and respond to multiple posts, and I can't do any of that. Not even porta pic!!!! Argh
- Thread starter electric
- Start date
Maritime law in DR, detention of yacht for debts due.
I wonder if the boat is insured, and for how much. And if some misfortune were to befall it, a fire, for example, or an explosion, perhaps an anchor crashing through the hull, as sometimes happens to boats, I wonder to whom the proceeds would be paid.
I don't suppose in your various agreements, emails and documentation it was stipulated that the boat must be insured and that you would be paid first.
Make haste. Time is not on your side.
I don't suppose in your various agreements, emails and documentation it was stipulated that the boat must be insured and that you would be paid first.
Make haste. Time is not on your side.
She is HUGE at 75 feet,, did I read that right? And I do not know where you would sell her. She could not be put into charter service in the US (US law says all charter boats have to be US built hulls so that eliminate Puerto Rico and the US Virgins)
but perhaps in some of the islands to the south although docking even for fuel and water and loading passengers will be an issue in lots of ports.
Nevertheless, my best suggestion would be that you use what money that you have to come down here and get your "friend" to sign the proper papers naming you as the lien holder, before you blow the relationship up sky high.
It will take a long time for the boat to sell, after all, and you might as well try to maintain some sort of good relationship in the mean time. You do not have a lot of competition, that is true. But this will fit only a very specific market and you are thinking of getting top dollar for a boat without a known named architect or yard. (I used to be yacht broker)
But you might be able to sell her down further, in Martinique or one of the other islands. That is if she is sea worthy enough to make the passage, which no one actually knows yet.
In the mean time, you might as well come down and live aboard during the winters and get some pleasure out of her, right? And you might figure out how to hustle it a bit better so that you can put together groups from hotels on a regular basis rather than wait for groups to find you. Stuff like that.
Then perhaps talk to the first catamaran company and see if they can recommend a lawyer. There is a law firm that is always recommended here on DR1 which is Guzman Arizas but I do not know if they have any experience in this sort of thing.
Figure out who gets what percentage of her if and when she sells and do not blow up a 30 year friendship over this. You trusted this guy with all that money in the first place, so it really is a joint venture, whether you want to admit it or not.
but perhaps in some of the islands to the south although docking even for fuel and water and loading passengers will be an issue in lots of ports.
Nevertheless, my best suggestion would be that you use what money that you have to come down here and get your "friend" to sign the proper papers naming you as the lien holder, before you blow the relationship up sky high.
It will take a long time for the boat to sell, after all, and you might as well try to maintain some sort of good relationship in the mean time. You do not have a lot of competition, that is true. But this will fit only a very specific market and you are thinking of getting top dollar for a boat without a known named architect or yard. (I used to be yacht broker)
But you might be able to sell her down further, in Martinique or one of the other islands. That is if she is sea worthy enough to make the passage, which no one actually knows yet.
In the mean time, you might as well come down and live aboard during the winters and get some pleasure out of her, right? And you might figure out how to hustle it a bit better so that you can put together groups from hotels on a regular basis rather than wait for groups to find you. Stuff like that.
Then perhaps talk to the first catamaran company and see if they can recommend a lawyer. There is a law firm that is always recommended here on DR1 which is Guzman Arizas but I do not know if they have any experience in this sort of thing.
Figure out who gets what percentage of her if and when she sells and do not blow up a 30 year friendship over this. You trusted this guy with all that money in the first place, so it really is a joint venture, whether you want to admit it or not.
unless your Frenchman is indeed connected with these catamarans ALIBI 54 catamaran - Aeroyacht LTD
in which case you have a much better chance of at least marketing her.
ALIBI catamarans - Aeroyacht LTD
Does that have anything to do with your builder/ architect?
in which case you have a much better chance of at least marketing her.
ALIBI catamarans - Aeroyacht LTD
Does that have anything to do with your builder/ architect?
In the listing of your boat, it says Alibi Architecture France.. But it was built here not by these guys http://www.catalibi.fr/main.html right? So how are you using the name? Just from blueprints or what?
The REAL Albis are built at a dedicated yard in Thailand and take 9 months, on order.. not a haphazard job of 3 years in the DR.
http://www.catalibi.fr/main.html
Houston, we've got a problem
http://www.catalibi.fr/main.html
Houston, we've got a problem
@ electric. You're going about this the wrong way. You first need a legal judgement from your own country before pursuing anything in the DR. If successful with instituting a lien where the ship was built and the loan originated from, the lawyer you hire there can file legal paperwork in the DR through a licensed law firm here. The fact is that without legal documentation granting you legal rights to the vessel, you're not going to get anywhere trying to have the yacht detained in the DR.
FYI, Selling a high end Cat is very doable in the Caribbean. They are more in demand than any other type of vessel right now. If you do get her back, message me, and I would be more than happy to send you a list of high end yacht brokers that can assist you in selling the yacht.
FYI, Selling a high end Cat is very doable in the Caribbean. They are more in demand than any other type of vessel right now. If you do get her back, message me, and I would be more than happy to send you a list of high end yacht brokers that can assist you in selling the yacht.
This statement is not true. Every VIP yacht charter boat comes from Taiwan. CYOA yacht charters boats that are built by Marine Trader and are also built in Taiwan. The fact is that regarding cats, most are coming out of South Africa now and are also used for charter. The truth is that all charter boats must be USCG inspected and approved for charter. Your boat could have been built on the moon and could be put into charter as long as it was USCG approved. Look at Sunsail or Moorings boats. Largest charter business in the world, and their boats are not exclusively made in the US yet you can charter one from AYH in St. Thomas.
This is simply that they are walking around the law by calling it a bareboat charter rather than head boats
The Jones Act
"Bareboat charters of foreign built or owned vessels are permitted under the fiction that a true "bare boat charter" is not a commercial application and the Jones Act applies only to commercial applications. Traditionally the issue has involved the chartering of pleasure boats or yachts and whether the charter has violated the terms of the Passenger Services Act.
The term passenger for hire means any transportation aboard a vessel in which some consideration, i.e., benefit, flows from the passenger, his agent or representative to the owner, his agent or representative. Consequently, business guest may be considered a "paying" passenger because of the flow of business good will to the owner. Consequently, where a group or organization charters a vessel and members contribute to the cost of the charter, the organization may be found to have passengers for hire. The underlying purpose is to create a distinct line between commercial or business use and pleasure use. No matter how we describe the conduct of the parties there will always be a gray area of discretionary enforcement. Legally, if a guest aboard a vessels provides fuel, food or beverage for the voyage that is consumed by the owner, we have a passenger for hire situation. Realistically this will probably not be enforced unless other factors are involved.
The use of foreign owned or foreign built yachts in a commercial application is strictly prohibited. However, foreign built and owned yachts may operate in U.S. waters for pleasure and non-commercial purposes. These vessels may also be chartered in U.S. waters, as well, but only for non-commercial purposes. If a businessman charters a foreign built yacht to entertain his clients he and the owner are in violation of the Passenger Services Act.
The true bare boat charter must be non-commercial and the owner must relinquish the custody and control of the vessel, entirely. If the owner skippers the vessels or controls the choice of the skipper, then the charter is not a true bare boat charter and will be considered carrying passengers for hire.
Violations of the Passenger Services Act or the Jones Act may, but do not necessarily result in forfeiture of the vessel to the United States Government. In the event of forfeiture, the vessel is deemed to have become the property of the United States at the instant of violation and allows immediate seizure. There are provisions for remission of the vessel and payment of fine and penalties. Also, mortgagor holders and lien holders may petition the government for remission to protect their interests in the vessel."
the companies that you cite do indeed charter bare boat. No one is going to charter a 75 ft catamaran bare boat. Nor are the owners going to let them.
js.. where do you get the information that the OP has to have a judgement from his home nation?
Anyway, since this was simply a "gentleman's agreement" in that no formal papers were signed, I still would think that the best thing for the OP is to come here and have a face to face with his friend and see if he can not at least get a proper paper acknowledging the debt. The amount that the OP put up is only a fraction of the value of the boat and probably a fraction of the money that was spent. So they need to have a clear deliniation of ownership and liens.
Since the boat is already documented and registered in someone else's name, it is going to be very difficult to prove that the OP has any lien on her, I would think.
It is low season now so there is not going to be much in the way of charters. And obviously there is competition here for the boat. So probably the Skipper did make the best payments that he could on the debt that he owed and sees the pressure as trying to get blood from a stone.
Bringing in lawyers and threatening suits and all that.. certainly before the OP has any clear papers, is only goint go make matters worse, I would think. Since they were friends enough to negotiate an unsecured loan of a quarter of a million bucks, and since the guy who has the boat probably knows that most of the OPs money is tied up in the boat, it would seem a reasonable think that he would be open to giving the OP a solid legal document that would at least give the OP a claim to his money when the boat is sold.
Anyway, if I had that amount of money in the deal, that is what I would do.
Anyway, since this was simply a "gentleman's agreement" in that no formal papers were signed, I still would think that the best thing for the OP is to come here and have a face to face with his friend and see if he can not at least get a proper paper acknowledging the debt. The amount that the OP put up is only a fraction of the value of the boat and probably a fraction of the money that was spent. So they need to have a clear deliniation of ownership and liens.
Since the boat is already documented and registered in someone else's name, it is going to be very difficult to prove that the OP has any lien on her, I would think.
It is low season now so there is not going to be much in the way of charters. And obviously there is competition here for the boat. So probably the Skipper did make the best payments that he could on the debt that he owed and sees the pressure as trying to get blood from a stone.
Bringing in lawyers and threatening suits and all that.. certainly before the OP has any clear papers, is only goint go make matters worse, I would think. Since they were friends enough to negotiate an unsecured loan of a quarter of a million bucks, and since the guy who has the boat probably knows that most of the OPs money is tied up in the boat, it would seem a reasonable think that he would be open to giving the OP a solid legal document that would at least give the OP a claim to his money when the boat is sold.
Anyway, if I had that amount of money in the deal, that is what I would do.
Who knows how many other people are owed money on this boat? If the "old friend" is unwilling to sign something, then the OP better have a back-up plan ready to go.
It was designed by the same architect, and therefore is a genuine Alibi. There are several companies building boats designed by them.
This catamaran is a one-off, but based on a similar well proven hull.
I have no doubts about the build quality, this catamaran was built to the highest specs, specifically for extended cruising charter.
It is a far higher spec. than any of the Taiwanese or French built Alibis. It is also a long way from a simple day charter boat.
Can I just say it boggels my ***king mind how these guys spend there whole lives earning hundreds of thousands
of dollars (and sometimes millions) only to have someone in the DR swindle it all away with little to no effort at all.
Do yourself a favor. Do not come down to this island and start telling people how much money you put into this.
You will be a mark from the minute you step off the plane and should you
be lucky enough to find an honest lawyer (yes I'm laughing as I'm typing) good luck with getting your
money back. Sometimes in life its best just to cut your losses and move on.
As I have said many times passed... A FOOL AND HIS MONEY ARE SOON DEPARTED.
of dollars (and sometimes millions) only to have someone in the DR swindle it all away with little to no effort at all.
Do yourself a favor. Do not come down to this island and start telling people how much money you put into this.
You will be a mark from the minute you step off the plane and should you
be lucky enough to find an honest lawyer (yes I'm laughing as I'm typing) good luck with getting your
money back. Sometimes in life its best just to cut your losses and move on.
As I have said many times passed... A FOOL AND HIS MONEY ARE SOON DEPARTED.