Middle Class in DR

[London_Calling]

exactly, Chip. that is the reason why i said that the criteria have to be rigidly defined, or else we will all have our own subjective idea of what poverty is. compared to me, my cleaning lady lives in poverty. compared to Leon Jiminez, i live in squalor.

Agree too - in Britain as far as I know it is usually measured as a relative term - the most deprived areas are those ranked in the bottom quartile etc.

Without reliable stats it is difficult to know who is right - and what defines middle classness is highly subjective. The other thing is that Picardo hasn't raised the issue of imported poverty (or is that Pichardo2 who writes about that) from Haiti. If you assume that the majority of poor people are Haitian and exclude them from the stats then you can soon end up with a higher proportion of middle class Dominicans.

 

[NALs]

Agree too - in Britain as far as I know it is usually measured as a relative term - the most deprived areas are those ranked in the bottom quartile etc.

Without reliable stats it is difficult to know who is right - and what defines middle classness is highly subjective. The other thing is that Picardo hasn't raised the issue of imported poverty (or is that Pichardo2 who writes about that) from Haiti. If you assume that the majority of poor people are Haitian and exclude them from the stats then you can soon end up with a higher proportion of middle class Dominicans.

The real issue here is that I made public information that was not suppose to be made public, it was meant to stay within the local economist circle and local upper class business people looking to make profitable investments.

The public discourse is diametrically separate from the reality, mostly for social control and political reasons.

This thread serves as a window into how most people reject the truth when they see it and pretend as if nothing happened. The few that see the forest for the trees, act upon it and, thanks to the weeding out of potential competition, goes laughing all the way to bank. Everyone else simply wonders, how did they do it?

After all, most people's perception of reality is suppose to be as close to reality as possible. (LOL)

How is that that firms like Mercasid are able to have gross sales of over $140 million, while other investors can't seem to get a break?

How is it that Brugal & Co was able to grow into a company, that the sell of a significant percentage of shares amounted to over US$800 million?

How come Grupo Ramos is now expanding their Multicentro La Sirena hypermarket stores across the whole country when each store requires a significant number of middle class households, just to break even?

Access to accurate information, that's how.

And not only is accurate information not cheap, it's also extremely scarce and not available to everyone.

But hey, I guess people that in comparison barely invest (if at all) in the Dominican economy truly know the local market better than investors willing to invest US$20 million in a shopping center/residential/office mixed project in the center of Santo Domingo. The first are doing a near sure thing while the latter are throwing darts at a board.

Yeah, right! :cheeky:

 

[the gorgon]

NotLurking, just when you and i were beginning to get along, you go and cite me one of the most threadbare economics ?laws?, Okun?s Law. what is most important to realise is that the GDP can increase for many reasons, and not all of them increase employment. a rep?rt i saw some time back stated that cell phone useage contributed to almost one perentage point increase in the GDP of the DR in 2009. how does that increase employment? secondly, PRODUCTIVITY, NOT EMPLOYMENT, also helps increase GDP. with increasingly sophisticated technology, 5 guys can do the same amount of work today than 20 guys could in 1962, when Okun made his observation.

 

[Criss Colon]

You Want To Know Who "PICHARDO" Is ??????????????????????

He's on the internet,so he "IS",anything he wants to be.
By the way,the picture of his "Cedula" is the best picture he has posted so far on DR1,and GOD KNOWS,there have been thousands!
He is only a guy who has learned to,"Cut-and-Paste", nothing more!
He has an Agenda,and he does not waiver from that agenda,even though he only has personal "FACTS" to support his postings.He is so full of himself,that he posts 7,8, or more posts,in a row,with no responses.
He has no "Life",other than "Soap Boxing" on DR1,and who knows how many other sites.
We should feel sympathy toward him,not anger.
"Chip",pray for him !

CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC

 

[the gorgon]

besides, he is also the guy who stated that debt service on capital costs are not a part of operating expense.

 

[NotLurking]

NotLurking, just when you and i were beginning to get along

LOL Don't worry bud no matter how much we disagree we'll get alone. disagreement a one of the more tangy spice of life. I agree with most of what you posted in post #147 but the problem is that in one extreme you want to argue black and white while at the other end you what to argue shades of grey. Granted, GDP is not a good indicator of standard of living nor is it a determining factor in class standard. GDP does indicate that there was an increase in output, productivity or increased revenue in the country as a whole. All things being equal at the very least some that were unemployed could have been employed as a direct result of increase demand by the segment of the GDP the reported an increase.

a rep?rt i saw some time back stated that cell phone useage contributed to almost one perentage point increase in the GDP of the DR in 2009. how does that increase employment?

I'll give you an example. When cellphone usage goes up there is a demand for cell phones which in turn requires sale people, repair techs, customer service rep, authorized service center and authorized service retailers. Are you to blind to see that all these areas need people to function? The greater the usage the greater the demand for personnel to service and upkeep these systems. Can you not see a boom in Orange shops, Claro & Viva authorized dealers all over the country. Business that were not there before and came into existence because cell phone usage went up. There is a direct relationship with people getting employed in this segment and the increased usage and increased of GDP caused by this segment. This is not a dichotomy if the segment increases then logically it needs personnel to handle the extra demand.

NotLurking

 

[the gorgon]

NotLurking states

I'll give you an example. When cellphone usage goes up there is a demand for cell phones which in turn requires sale people, repair techs, customer service rep, authorized service center and authorized service retailers. Are you to blind to see that all these areas need people to function?

not necessarily. there is no direct correlation between cell phone useage, and any of the above. it could also mean that people who already have cell phones are making longer calls.

 

[bob saunders]

NotLurking states

I'll give you an example. When cellphone usage goes up there is a demand for cell phones which in turn requires sale people, repair techs, customer service rep, authorized service center and authorized service retailers. Are you to blind to see that all these areas need people to function?

The gorgon states: not necessarily. there is no direct correlation between cell phone useage, and any of the above. it could also mean that people who already have cell phones are making longer calls.

------------------ This is called nit-picking. There are more people in the DR using cell phones every year. In fact most people don't have land lines. Land lines require a credit card....etc. There are hundreds of celluar shops, service centers....etc. Not Lurking is correct and you Snakeheaded woman are wrong. Technically you could be right, but you are not. Stop beating a dead horse.

 

[the gorgon]

Bob Saunders fumes

Technically you could be right, but you are not

and i guess that you are the guy who gets to make that decision?

 

[greydread]

Increase in cell phones translates into increase in goods and services provided. Increase in cell company revenues does not.

 

[the gorgon]

i forgot....increase in charges could also mean increased revenue, provided that useage does not go down....i just love nitpicking.

 

[NotLurking]

i forgot....increase in charges could also mean increased revenue, provided that useage does not go down....i just love nitpicking.

You can nit pick all you want but...
http://www.indotel.gob.do/index2.php?option=com_content&do_pdf=1&id=547
Banco Central de la Repblica Dominicana
Hay 1.7 millones de celulares en R-Dominicana :: Ciencia y Tecnologia :: DiarioDigitalRD.com - Noticias Republica Dominicana

The above links support my assertions.

NotLurking

 

[PICHARDO]

besides, he is also the guy who stated that debt service on capital costs are not a part of operating expense.

They are not! But unless you're an investor how could you know that! Right?

 

[PICHARDO]

The interest on the capital costs are a deductible business expense, here in DR and so too in other capitalistic economies. The principal is not deductible, hence why it's part and reported within the operating expenses for the biz in question. That's why accountants file the items separated from the actual balances for the company's operating costs.


If your take out a loan or LOC from a financial institution for 1 million pesos at 10% fixed interest for a term of 5 years, the principal amount due each year as part of your set payment schedule can be called a part of your debt service for that year, as the interest is deducted and will not bare a financial negative to the FY balance of assets.

Interest paid on operating costs, not created/produced as income from the biz itself is a deductible for the FY.

But go on and write what you want, since I know what I know from my own biz experience on both sides of the coin!

 

[PICHARDO]

Wow! So many brains with so much data to prove, yet not one offers to list the areas of the tiny city of Santiago alone to back it up!?!?!


My oh my!

 

[Chip]

They are not! But unless you're an investor how could you know that! Right?

Maybe it's different in Spanish but debt service can be considered part of operating costs depending on whose crunching the numbers.

 

[Chip]

Wow! So many brains with so much data to prove, yet not one offers to list the areas of the tiny city of Santiago alone to back it up!?!?!


My oh my!

You can post data all you want but for those of us who live here in the DR and in Santiago we have eyes and also have lived in other places as well.

With regard to the data you must know that we all believe you are compensated from the PLD for your informative posts(read propaganda) and any Dominican governmental institution has zero credibility here on the forum and in fact less than zero with the general population.

 

[PICHARDO]

Maybe it's different in Spanish but debt service can be considered part of operating costs depending on whose crunching the numbers.

The distancing lies in how debt service is calculated or made part of a biz model! Debt service on capital costs are not a part of operating expense in many types of biz, of which I run a few! But the thing is, that for him to know that he needs to own the experience under his belt, unlike going about reading up on biz terms just to get a sense of what he's trying to debate on a public forum.

He should try to tell the gas dealers in the USA, that their biz model is not only under reporting on operating costs, but the net profits are not what they show to be in their balances! All based on Gorgojo's brains...

If all biz were the same, we wouldn't need a staff of accountants to meet tax and other obligations each quarter! Only a single scheme/template to fill for all biz!

But I forgive him, as I did forgive Pres. Bush when he said:

"I've abandoned free market principles to save the free market system." --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Dec. 16, 2008

 

[PICHARDO]

You can post data all you want but for those of us who live here in the DR and in Santiago we have eyes and also have lived in other places as well.

With regard to the data you must know that we all believe you are compensated from the PLD for your informative posts(read propaganda) and any Dominican governmental institution has zero credibility here on the forum and in fact less than zero with the general population.

So now I'm a PLD spinner? LOL!!!


Paid too?


LOL!!!

 

[Chip]

But the thing is, that for him to know that he needs to own the experience under his belt, unlike going about reading up on biz terms just to get a sense of what he's trying to debate on a public forum.

No offense Pichardo but that's the pot calling the kettle black dude.