Modern slavery in the DR- Haitians in the Bateys.

[Quisqueya]

Another dominican in denial!!

one theory i read for the domincan cultural color blindness is the way the spanish ran the colony that would become the DR. the spanish did not run their side of hispanola as efficently and ruthlessly as the french ran haiti.

the spanish did not ship in a massive amount of slaves into the spanish side of the island, did not need to, as the spanish colony's economy was not plantation driven(and slave labored) . instead the spanish colony was more geared toward small farms. slaves that were shipped into the spanish colony were allowed to buy their freedom for a relatively small amount, and become free farmers in their own right. by 1800, the majority of the spanish colony were freed ex slave families who owned their farms. the spanish colony was rather egalitarian in nature. apparently all this meant that the domincans did not develop the racial hatreds that haitians would develop in their culture.

Sure the spanish open there door to then "not yet dominicans" and let you in there homes. they taught you to farm and didn't rape your ancestor allowed you to buy your freedom...blah..blah..blah. If this isn't pure B.S. then I am from another planet. BTW, during that time their was more mulattos and free slaves that bought their freedom in Haiti as well. El punto es que? Do you know how absurd you sound Pacheco. Basically, slavery on the french side was worse than the spanish side so its ok. You have no type of orgullo if you believe that non sense. Force to work without your will is dehumanizing. The spanish didn't live in harmony with dominicans like you mentioned but rather slept thru the whole family at free will. You had no choice but to accept the way they treated you....

 

[Quisqueya]

Business is About maximizing your profit!!!

P.S.
We have two Haitian origined gentlemen working for us full time at Xanadu. They earn the same, and are treated the same as the Dominicans on staff. I won't post how much because CC will flame me but it's a lot by Dominican standards. I couldn't live on it as an American though. So am I oppressing my friends and workers? I don't think so. They seem very happy.[/QUOTE]

Hey, as long as the consumer is satisfied with their pay and way of living then you should feel good about yourself. You are there to run a business and as u mention above are fair to your employees.

 

[JenniferDiaz]

A vocabulary for polarization.

"Dominican nationalism and anti-haitianism was the propaganda used among the elite to make the poor illetirate mass believe haitians were the enemy"

This is a reflection of all the problems Haitians have. They are always in confict and always trying to see every thing with the same terms: Black vs White or mulattos. Elite vs Poor mass.

This polarization is inbedded into their minds, and they always go from one conflict to another. It is never about the truth. It is always about what they want people to believe.

If Dominicans don't like Haitians, is because they see what Haiti is, thanks to the Haitians.

So, the biggest "anti-haitanism" promoters are the haitians. Dominicans don't need promote it, Haitians do fantastic job everyday.

 

[Ogre of the Caribbean]

let me take your argument apart point by point.

1.) the republic of the gran republic was made up of three countries. columbia, equador, and venezuela. 80 years later the United states would sponsor/create an independent panama. so technically you could argue it would become FOUR nations, not 5. but still, at the time, it was an alliance of 3 nations.
2.) the DR did exist. it declared independence in 1821. the haitian dictator boyer and his army invaded in 1822. the DR might have only been independent for a few months before haiti invaded, but it was free. in no way is the brutal military invasion and extremely cruel 22 year haitian occupation justified on the grounds that the DR "did not exist". the spanish speaking whites, mulattos,and blacks living in the DR side of the island WERE NOT HAITIAN. they spoke a different language, were in many cases ethnically different and cultural different than the haitians.
3.) the anti haitian feelings of the dominicans were not based on propaganda from dominican elite. the anti haitian feelings were brought about by the cruelities of haitians soldiers and the misery/ruin that 22 years of haitian occupation brought the DR.
4.) "the spanish loved the dominicans, yeah right". the people in the DR rebelled like people all over central america and south america rebelled against the spanish. people wanted to be free of spain , have thier own say in running their own lives, not ruled from europe. the people in the DR were no different in wanting independence than any other spanish speaking people. the spanish treated people in the DR colony a lot better than the french treated black slaves in haiti. there is no real comparison between the two nations colonial pasts.

perhaps you are the one reading the twisted history.

 

[Quisqueya]

The issue isn't not about black and white

Why do some posters keep bringing up the black and white issue? Get over it. If you are black fine, not all Dominicans are, end of story.

That is not the issue here, I spoke of heritage and cultural differences.

When I state "Africanization" I am not talking about black or white.

The biggest "Africanizationer" is Hippolito and he is white. He represents all that is backwards about haiti and all Africanizied nations. Look at Jamaica and politics there a mess worse than DR, than look at Bahamas, Bermuda and other more organized "black" nations that have more stable goverments and economies. They don't deny they are black, but they run their countries with more respect and with Western values..Thats it. Don't look for what is not being said. look at what is being said and get over your complex.

The question should be why are you bringing the Taino issue into play here. Not all haitians are black either so what are you talking about. The whole island have a mix of people. But what i'm saying which is obvious in your writing is that any mention of African culture is a negative stigma to you. Inferior complex which most dominicans have is eating them away like acid.

Dominicans practice voodoo and are the very supersititous people. I know it hurts to see the reality face to face. Nacoris, why do you feel dominicans should go back to eurocentric customs which only a few extranjeros and elite dominicans demonstrate. ARe you that uncomfortable with your mix ancestry?

 

[Quisqueya]

What!!!

"Dominican nationalism and anti-haitianism was the propaganda used among the elite to make the poor illetirate mass believe haitians were the enemy"

This is a reflection of all the problems Haitians have. They are always in confict and always trying to see every thing with the same terms: Black vs White or mulattos. Elite vs Poor mass.

This polarization is inbedded into their minds, and they always go from one conflict to another. It is never about the truth. It is always about what they want people to believe.

If Dominicans don't like Haitians, is because they see what Haiti is, thanks to the Haitians.

So, the biggest "anti-haitanism" promoters are the haitians. Dominicans don't need promote it, Haitians do fantastic job everyday.

ok dominicans don't like haitians and P-ricans don't like dominicans. I guess you can say they same for puerto ricans. They dislike dominicans because they look at DR and see what might become of Boriquen. You guys might make them darker and have prostitute brothels on every corner. If you didn't know those are dominican stereotypes... ignorance with ignorance doesn't accomplish anything.

 

[JenniferDiaz]

Good for you!

So is not about race then, it is about economy.
It takes a lot to get the truth out of you.

 

[Narcosis]

Quisqueya you are very disturbed and mis-guided. You want to make it seem you know what you are talking about but have not a clue.

I bet you have only been on the island on vacation or never at all.

I live in the DR and have been to Haiti and have Haitian friends. You obviously have very little real experience about Haiti. When I stayed at a friends "castle" in Petionville, I thought I was back in the 1700's. Of course my friends are wealthy white Haitians or as they say French Haitians even though they have been in the country for generations, They literally had 20 servants on the property! You complain about Dominicans and slavery? hahaha, this was as close as it gets pal! I also saw how their friends lived in the same way.

The only non-whites they associate with are black goverment officials they use to make more money off. These Goverment officials are the only blacks you see in Petionville schools. I though I was in France.

You see this is what some people want to happen in the DR. they want to play this black againts white game. It will not work. I bet you are just a PRD member hiding behind this disguise. sorry it won't fool too many people!

Go to Haiti and cry for the way they are treated in their own country before you come here and say it.

 

[Quisqueya]

What are u talking about!!

So is not about race then, it is about economy.
It takes a lot to get the truth out of you.

I've never denied that the real problem of haiti and DR is economic issue. I havent mention the race issue as a major factor either. Most dominicans are amongst haitians without even realizing it because dominicans are stuck dumb on haitians being dark skin. I could care about race issue because racism exist everywhere. It just absurd to see dominicans talk bad about haitians when they themselves are dirt poor. I guess its all about who is the biggiest bully in the playground...

 

[JenniferDiaz]

So..

"It just absurd to see dominicans talk bad about haitians when they themselves are dirt poor"

But we are doing better than Haiti, and that why Haitians keep crossing the border.

And if you know it is economy, and that people will be the same all over the world, why do you keep posting?

 

[Quisqueya]

Jennifer what r you getting at!!

"It just absurd to see dominicans talk bad about haitians when they themselves are dirt poor"

But we are doing better than Haiti, and that why Haitians keep crossing the border.

And if you know it is economy, and that people will be the same all over the world, why do you keep posting?

Jen,

if you didn't know this is a forum and that's what people do. (post) to get their points across.

Its obvious you have nothing significant to say but to stereotype. Your remark was "so" I guess you are another chopo who just picks on the little people in the class. Conversation is over...now leave it alone

 

[JenniferDiaz]

What happen, you can not take it?

Jen,

if you didn't know this is a forum and that's what people do. (post) to get their points across.

Its obvious you have nothing significant to say but to stereotype. Your remark was "so" I guess you are another chopo who just picks on the little people in the class. Conversation is over...now leave it alone

You are contradicting your self.

 

[XanaduRanch]

Pib???!!!

Smiter? Where are you?

 

[Dominican Tony]

:tired: This person is really into it now (link to the person who started this post? might be the same person after all), talk about patriotism, fact to the matter is it will take haiti years to catch up to the Dominican Republic accept it or not it doesn't take a genius to read the current economic differences between the two countries, both poor yet on the contrary the economic gap is in millions of dollars.....hmmmm according to Taino history, the last few hid in the foothills of the Cordillera Central current towns of Janico, San Jose de Las Matas which is my home-town and other towns in the region in a desperate attempt to hide from the Spaniards.....my great grandmother is from Valencia, Spain doesn't make me Spanish even though they contributed to my family having blue eyes, this applies to many Dominicans in the Cibao region where most of the 16% of white Dominicans reside, the 73% of mixed Dominicans can be found throughout the island and the 11% black are there too usually in the capital and the border region.

 

[Kimadj]

Chopo or puta, no difference, she knows nothing about the subject.

 

[JenniferDiaz]

Can't take the truth.

"Its obvious you have nothing significant to say but to stereotype."

Just because I do not agree with your propaganda, you call it "nothing significan to say".

It is clear why Haitians are always in confict. For you is never about the truth, but always what you want the truth to be.

You can not take it, because I make you think. I speak the truth and that is too much for you.

 

[JenniferDiaz]

You are showing your weakness in this.

"I guess you are another chopo who just picks on the little people in the class"

Now, since you have no convincing arguments, you degrated your self to insulting others.

You can not deal with this, because it shows you are not the victim you want everybody to think you are.

Your Afro-Centric propaganda is no working and you hate it.

 

[Kimadj]

Jen you are offensive

As an english person living here in DR I find you most offensive and racist, do you actually know what you are talking about?
No I suspect not.
Hopefully this distastefull thread will be be stopped.

 

[JenniferDiaz]

Truth is Racism.

Dear "Kim & Paul",

This is very typical, when people like you do not have convincing argument,
then you say it is because of racism.

Again, playing the victim.

 

[JenniferDiaz]

Again, can't take the truth.

As an english person living here in DR I find you most offensive and racist, do you actually know what you are talking about?
No I suspect not.
Hopefully this distastefull thread will be be stopped.

For you, I do not know what I am talking about, because is not what you want to hear.