- Thread starter jekel35
- Start date
Natural gas conversion
Propane has its points, but as mentioned I don't think the payoff is worth it unless propane is subsidized more. My dad had a car that could run on gas or propane and refueling on the propane was a big hassle.
Always wondered why they don't get motos to run on propane...
Always wondered why they don't get motos to run on propane...
cobraboy,
you asked,
"You realize with current do-it-yourself technology-hydrolysis-it takes more BTU's to produce the hydrogen than the hydrogen produces?
How is that an alternative?"
Take into consideration the following facts
1- a lot of hydrogen is produced everyday for industrial and other use, -some use chemical process to produce it out of traditional fossil fuels, gas, oil etc-, no hydrogen no margarine for your bread... How is margarine made? If you know the full details, you cannot possibly think that it is healthy. Yet many health experts still do.
2- but I had in mind electrolysis, that method to produce hydrogen of course use electric power, or BTU if you will, en great quantities... but
3- you have solar panels and other new ways to produce the electric power basically for free
on the other hand, imo, most of the power generated by the electric power utilities is not utilized, specially during off peak demand...,
for a long time I have been trying to get data from power plant manufactures and the utility companies, even participating in specialized Internet forum related to power generation, no results...
lack of hard data, and lack of time prevented me so far from telling the truth in an proper way
my point is, that the electric power utility companies most generate it no matter what, they have to keep the power plants running, electric power is not being utilized
most utilities don't do energy storing -there are several methods to do it- during off peak hours, some methods are ridiculously simple
[so what they are doing instead is similar to dumping over production of food to keep the price up, not an exact analogy]
worst, even if the consumers of electric power don't use it, don't buy electric power during certain periods of the day [night time] the utilities are not giving it to you or me for free or at very reduced price to generate hydrogen or whatever,
[actually some utilities do reduce the price at night, probably an special meter is required, some factories take advantage I guess, creating night shifts]
nor the oil companies, Exxon etc, will be happy with that
electric car can be powered by hydrogen, indirectly, through a fuel cell
but hydrogen can be used DIRECTLY by the old ICE cars, the Internal Combustion Engine cars we have now
there are economic and geopolitical forces behind scene...
despite that fact,
an ex governor of California, not an stupid man, initiated the hydrogen highway
Shell once said that they know how to change the game in Europe, from gasoline to hydrogen in a few years...
"who killed the electric car?, and who is killing the hydrogen car?
btw, an special fuel tank is required
hydrogen for dummies... think of electrolysis like using electricity for water distilling, do you have a water distiller in your house?
you should, but here again, drinking water is another rippoff business, when a distiller is a ridicusly simple apparatus, a heater to slowly evaporate water, or alcohol
, moonshine do not even used electricity, but a controlled wood fire... shut up brugal said
you asked,
"You realize with current do-it-yourself technology-hydrolysis-it takes more BTU's to produce the hydrogen than the hydrogen produces?
How is that an alternative?"
Take into consideration the following facts
1- a lot of hydrogen is produced everyday for industrial and other use, -some use chemical process to produce it out of traditional fossil fuels, gas, oil etc-, no hydrogen no margarine for your bread... How is margarine made? If you know the full details, you cannot possibly think that it is healthy. Yet many health experts still do.
2- but I had in mind electrolysis, that method to produce hydrogen of course use electric power, or BTU if you will, en great quantities... but
3- you have solar panels and other new ways to produce the electric power basically for free
on the other hand, imo, most of the power generated by the electric power utilities is not utilized, specially during off peak demand...,
for a long time I have been trying to get data from power plant manufactures and the utility companies, even participating in specialized Internet forum related to power generation, no results...
lack of hard data, and lack of time prevented me so far from telling the truth in an proper way
my point is, that the electric power utility companies most generate it no matter what, they have to keep the power plants running, electric power is not being utilized
most utilities don't do energy storing -there are several methods to do it- during off peak hours, some methods are ridiculously simple
[so what they are doing instead is similar to dumping over production of food to keep the price up, not an exact analogy]
worst, even if the consumers of electric power don't use it, don't buy electric power during certain periods of the day [night time] the utilities are not giving it to you or me for free or at very reduced price to generate hydrogen or whatever,
[actually some utilities do reduce the price at night, probably an special meter is required, some factories take advantage I guess, creating night shifts]
nor the oil companies, Exxon etc, will be happy with that
electric car can be powered by hydrogen, indirectly, through a fuel cell
but hydrogen can be used DIRECTLY by the old ICE cars, the Internal Combustion Engine cars we have now
there are economic and geopolitical forces behind scene...
despite that fact,
an ex governor of California, not an stupid man, initiated the hydrogen highway
Shell once said that they know how to change the game in Europe, from gasoline to hydrogen in a few years...
"who killed the electric car?, and who is killing the hydrogen car?
btw, an special fuel tank is required
hydrogen for dummies... think of electrolysis like using electricity for water distilling, do you have a water distiller in your house?
you should, but here again, drinking water is another rippoff business, when a distiller is a ridicusly simple apparatus, a heater to slowly evaporate water, or alcohol
, moonshine do not even used electricity, but a controlled wood fire... shut up brugal saidever since a "converted" car exploded neatly about 100 meters from our home i am kinda skeptical about the abilities of the folks who do those conversions. cheap ones are done badly, good ones are expensive. my general thought is that if you cannot afford to run your car on regular petrol then maybe you cannot afford the car altogether.
I think driving on propane is just great:
. less polluting than gasoline, which is extremely important... Even in the DR we must think about the environment
. half price
. no problem with old engines. With new ones, could be a bit more difficult
. easier to resell IMO. Personnally I would never buy a car without it.
. less polluting than gasoline, which is extremely important... Even in the DR we must think about the environment
. half price
. no problem with old engines. With new ones, could be a bit more difficult
. easier to resell IMO. Personnally I would never buy a car without it.
Whatever.cobraboy,
you asked,
"You realize with current do-it-yourself technology-hydrolysis-it takes more BTU's to produce the hydrogen than the hydrogen produces?
How is that an alternative?"
Take into consideration the following facts
1- a lot of hydrogen is produced everyday for industrial and other use, -some use chemical process to produce it out of traditional fossil fuels, gas, oil etc-, no hydrogen no margarine for your bread... How is margarine made? If you know the full details, you cannot possibly think that it is healthy. Yet many health experts still do.
2- but I had in mind electrolysis, that method to produce hydrogen of course use electric power, or BTU if you will, en great quantities... but
3- you have solar panels and other new ways to produce the electric power basically for free
on the other hand, imo, most of the power generated by the electric power utilities is not utilized, specially during off peak demand...,
for a long time I have been trying to get data from power plant manufactures and the utility companies, even participating in specialized Internet forum related to power generation, no results...
lack of hard data, and lack of time prevented me so far from telling the truth in an proper way
my point is, that the electric power utility companies most generate it no matter what, they have to keep the power plants running, electric power is not being utilized
most utilities don't do energy storing -there are several methods to do it- during off peak hours, some methods are ridiculously simple
[so what they are doing instead is similar to dumping over production of food to keep the price up, not an exact analogy]
worst, even if the consumers of electric power don't use it, don't buy electric power during certain periods of the day [night time] the utilities are not giving it to you or me for free or at very reduced price to generate hydrogen or whatever,
[actually some utilities do reduce the price at night, probably an special meter is required, some factories take advantage I guess, creating night shifts]
nor the oil companies, Exxon etc, will be happy with that
electric car can be powered by hydrogen, indirectly, through a fuel cell
but hydrogen can be used DIRECTLY by the old ICE cars, the Internal Combustion Engine cars we have now
there are economic and geopolitical forces behind scene...
despite that fact,
an ex governor of California, not an stupid man, initiated the hydrogen highway
Shell once said that they know how to change the game in Europe, from gasoline to hydrogen in a few years...
"who killed the electric car?, and who is killing the hydrogen car?
btw, an special fuel tank is required
hydrogen for dummies... think of electrolysis like using electricity for water distilling, do you have a water distiller in your house?
you should, but here again, drinking water is another rippoff business, when a distiller is a ridicusly simple apparatus, a heater to slowly evaporate water, or alcohol
I can't wait to see a solar array on you car big enough to create the requires energy to separate atoms to unleash hydrogen from water to feed it into your engine. Tongue-in-cheek: do you think the increased weight and drag is more than offset by the hydrogen produced?
Even in a conventional setup, when you put enough energy into an alternator to produce the charge necessary to electrolyze water, do you actually think the hydrogen produces exceeds the fuel required to overcome the additional mechanical drag created by the alternator?
Perhaps California can repeal the Laws of Physics and then hydrogen for ICE will be a reality.
Good luck with that.
Hydrogen can be separated from water with wind or solar, but the problem is transporting it.
There are some emerging large scale battery systems that could be real game changers. Home systems now use batteries not much beefier that car batteries, but the new tech could use batteries the size of shipping containers that could power small towns for a week at a time. For home use with a solar or wind, think something around the size of a 55 gallon drum. Nanotech involving graphene is another route.
Donald Sadoway: The missing link to renewable energy | Video on TED.com
There are some emerging large scale battery systems that could be real game changers. Home systems now use batteries not much beefier that car batteries, but the new tech could use batteries the size of shipping containers that could power small towns for a week at a time. For home use with a solar or wind, think something around the size of a 55 gallon drum. Nanotech involving graphene is another route.
Donald Sadoway: The missing link to renewable energy | Video on TED.com
Could be the future, but on-board conversion of water to hydrogen to supplement fuel is no where on the tech radar screen.
Besides that would require a rather complex schiometric algorithm on an ECI chip to operate an ICE properly on two entirely different fuels being metered into the cylinder at the same time.
I'll look forward to your first ever hydrogen fuel cell car in the Dominican Republic.
"technology" already 'allowed' it..., relatively cheap
the issue is if the technology will ever be transfered to the general public, 'they' are finding the way to keep control of the huge energy/fuel business first
regulations will be the only way, but regulations dont work in every country.... USA to DR for example, so more arm twistting and manipulation is need to do do the same as they are doing with,
despite natural gas, cng, is controlled by the same oil companies, but they have too much invested in the oil industry to swich to cng the next day
there is so much natural gas available, they had no choice but to let the utility companies use it, even converting oil burning plants to natural gas is cheaper in the long run
but who care about the general public, all they want is our $
water/hydrogen is everywhere...
btw ev where build and used long before the ICE, even at capitol hill in the USA, not that I want to divert discussion from gas to electricity, it is a much longer or complicaged issue/topic