Need some translation help please...

[Criss Colon]

He won't really be angry if you don't say "Adios"!

As long as you know how to wire money by "Western Union"!!!!!

Hows That "HB"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[wc3]

Quiero vivir contigo: I want to live with you.
HB, where is your emphasis? want? live? with? or you?


Como dicen algunos amigos dominicanos mio cuando estan hablando de dos personas que , no solo esta "viviendo" juntos, pero en relidad, que estan "teniendo relaciones sexual" uno con el otro...dicen...por ejemplo ...: "yo vivia con ella antes, pero ya nos dejamos, no tengo nada con ella ahora" (in one instance could mean: "I had sexual realtions with her before......."

This has been my a part of my experience with my dominican friend in related conversations....re "quiero vivir contngo" matter. Could be a euphemism for having sexual relations (boy! that's keeping it clean!)
wc

 

[stewart]

Your analisys is based on english grammar rules. Those do not apply do spanish.
Do you speak spanish?

Quizas si vd supiera lo que era el punto mio, entonces no hubiera responder con esa pregunta. Es decir que aun algunas idiomas , naturalmente, segun regles....to English, this "analysis" is valid. It is incorrect that you say "those do not apply to Spanish (sorry... "spanish")".

My simple point was based on transitive versus intransitive "voices' of spoken language, en este caso espan(i)ol......(not using my pc to the fullest, obviously.....re "tilde")

pero de todo manera, su opinones y , como se dice, "in put" is very welcomed.

wc[/QUOTE]

Yup! Your (S)panish could use some help.

 

[juancarlos]

Quiero vivir contigo: I want to live with you.
HB, where is your emphasis? want? live? with? or you?


Como dicen algunos amigos dominicanos mio cuando estan hablando de dos personas que , no solo esta "viviendo" juntos, pero en relidad, que estan "teniendo relaciones sexual" uno con el otro...dicen...por ejemplo ...: "yo vivia con ella antes, pero ya nos dejamos, no tengo nada con ella ahora" (in one instance could mean: "I had sexual realtions with her before......."

This has been my a part of my experience with my dominican friend in related conversations....re "quiero vivir contngo" matter. Could be a euphemism for having sexual relations (boy! that's keeping it clean!)
wc

Yes, you are right. That euphemism for sexual relations is used in several countries.

 

[Pib]

Not sure here if what I read is meant to be funny; but it sure as heck is! I must be entirely missing something here, but ever think of "te extrano
mucho"......

"tu me haces falta" .......point: the perceived "deeper" meaning could be that the person being "missed" (tu) is the entity causing the "action", hence the sencond person singular "tu haces". When on the other hand, "te extrano" puts the oneous soley on the first person (yo) doing the missing.

In the case of "tu me haces falta", it could be somewhat intransitive; while "te extrano" is transitive. In essence, "tu haces" could seem "deeper" cause it's somewhat outside the "control" of the person who "misses" the other. While "te extrano", to me, gives "control" to the "yo", - I can or can not miss you, without or without your input (so-to-speak). But "tu me haces....".....you are the cause; it is your "ablsence" - your action (or inaction) that is the impetus for my feeling. Not much to do with "nuance"; it is intrinsically an operation of grammar.

But, again, "i miss you" wuld seem simple and straightforward enough to be conveyed between two "mates", that even the most novice on the idioms would seem clearly guided...I must be missing something, thus my interpretation of hillibilly's input.....maybe
wc

I don't agree with your interpretation. As somebody else said, it seems to be construed from English grammar. "Hacer falta" doesn't imply any participation whatsoever from the "missee"*, only on the part of the "misser"**.



Making up words is my other hobby

 

[Marianopolita]

Pib and Stewart,

Es cuesti?n de matices.

What I mean by this is I think it depends on what the ?speaker? wishes to convey when s/he uses ?te extra?o? or ?me haces falta? .

Stewart,

You said this in your response to me that it?s ?perception? but to be more specific it's what the speaker wishes to convey when using one over the other.

-Lesley D-

 

[Marianopolita]

wc3,

If you have references for your analysis please cite them. I have never heard that theory before with respect to the usage of transitive and intransitive verbs in Spanish. I thought long and hard before responding but I definitely question this logic. Based on would you stated about the difference between ?me haces falta? vs ?te extra?o? how would your logic apply to all other intransitive verbs in Spanish?

Some examples of other intransitive verbs are:

Doler
Encantar
Parecer
Molestar
Gustar
Importar

Just to mention some common ones. So based on your theory of more control to the object or person being liked, missed, etc. how does that apply to phrases like:

1) Me gustan los sombreros.
The object is ?me?. The subject is ?sombreros? controlling the usage of the plural form of gustar thus ?gustan?.

2) Le interesa el video.
The object is ?le?. The subject is ?video? controlling the usage of the singular form of ?interesar? thus ?interesa?.

3) Me molestan tus preguntas.
The object is ?me?. The subject is ?preguntas? controlling the usage of the plural form of ?molestar? thus ?molestan?.

Using YOUR theory of more "control" to the object or person being liked, missed etc. this would mean "sombreros", "video" and "preguntas" based on my examples. In my esteem this logic has no validity.

Based on these examples I would say your theory is questionable unless you have a specific grammar reference. What I will tell you is that intransitive verbs like the examples I gave above and their construction (meaning what is ?liked? or ?missed? etc. being the subject of the sentence) has to do with etymology and language origin. This phrase structure is common across all the Romance languages which originates from the root language Latin.

-Lesley D-

 

[Jane J.]

Eeeks, some notions need to be dispelled.

In English, many verbs can be either transitive or intransitive depending on the sense of the sentence. What makes the difference is that a transitive verb has a direct object and an intransitive verb does not. Ex:

- I ran all the way to the colmado.Intransitive ~ No direct object.

- I ran three colmadones and became very rich. Transitive ~ Direct object: the colmadones.

Consider this:

- The toy broke. Intransitive ~It broke, see?

- The toy broke the window when Jane J's son hurled it through the air. Transitive ~ It (while being the subject) didn't break, the window did. It broke the window.

I don't know the term for what we are talking about in Spanish re: "tu me haces falta" other than to say the speaker is making the "missee" (Hi, pib!) the subject instead of being the subject him/herself. Kind of like early Usher songs... You Make Me Wanna, You Remind Me, You Got It Bad and You Don't Have to Call!

If we apply the transitive/intransitive rule to Spanish "tu me haces falta" would be transitive because "me" would be the direct object. HOWEVER, you could equally say "tu haces falta" (which still makes sense and essentially, although less specifically, conveys the action taking place) and it would be intransitive, and whether it is or isn't is really not the point here.

Ustedes entienden lo que estoy diciendo? O sea, ustedes me entienden a mi? Same diff.

 

[wc3]

Yup! Your (S)panish could use some help.[/QUOTE]

Thanx! Whose couldnt?
wc

 

[wc3]

If we apply the transitive/intransitive rule to Spanish "tu me haces falta" would be transitive because "me" would be the direct object. HOWEVER, you could equally say "tu haces falta" (which still makes sense and essentially, although less specifically, conveys the action taking place) and it would be intransitive, and whether it is or isn't is really not the point here.

Ustedes entienden lo que estoy diciendo? O sea, ustedes me entienden a mi? Same diff.[/QUOTE]

Thank you Jane - solid, on target.

One () of the things I enjoy about this venue is(are ) the myriad of "experts" and the heapfuls of "directions" given.

Beyond getting input from participants re experiences, adivse, counsel on issues Dominican (and yes, by extrapolation the Spanish language), one also gets smitherings (and often massive amounts) of "human character" studies.

It can sometimes be a tough areana in which to operate. Sitting here at work, far removed from my beloved DR and my loved ones there, I am drawn to this venue - throwing-in my "dos centavos" de vez en cuando (and we all know just how much "dos centavos" are worth, dont we?....maybe in the true spirit of the DR I will throw in "two pieces of candy" )

Anyway, it's sometimes a "rush" mixing it up; there is always something to learn. It breaks up the monotony at work while keeping me connected (in an interactive way) to the DR (I got back from xmas there early Jan....)

wc

 

[Marianopolita]

Jane....

Jane,

I think what confuses people when going from phrases like this in English to Spanish is the reversal of the subject and the object.

English: I like the shoes

I= subject

the shoes= the direct object

Spanish: Me gustan los zapatos

"Los zapatos" becomes the subject of sentence and the person liking them "me" is the object of the phrase and this holds true for the construction of similar intransitive verbs.

As we both know in French it is the same phrase structure.

"Montr?al me manque"....etc.

-Lesley D-

 

[wc3]

Some examples of other intransitive verbs are:

Doler
Encantar
Parecer
Molestar
Gustar
Importar

Just to mention some common ones. So based on your theory of more control to the object or person being liked, missed, etc. how does that apply to phrases like:

In my esteem this logic has no validity.

Based on these examples I would say your theory is questionable unless you have a specific grammar reference. What I will tell you is that intransitive verbs like the examples I gave above and their construction (meaning what is ?liked? or ?missed? etc. being the subject of the sentence) has to do with etymology and language origin. This phrase structure is common across all the Romance languages which originates from the root language Latin.

Thank you Leslie.
Note: "examples of other intransitive verbs"......the verb may be "used" in the "intransitive"; not in and of itsel an "intransitive verb" (as Jane points out - vis-a-vis gramar - :Transitive: expresses an action carried from the subject to the object - requires a direct object to complete meaning......Intransitive:does not require or cannot take a direct object.

My theory of course must be questionable! It is by definition.

"has to do with etymology and language origin......root language Latin".....
Note: The origin and historical development of language form is by necessity germane and entirely revelant to any discussion/issue of languages....be they Romantic, Saxon or otherwise (of their elements). My not-so-good attempt to relay my thoughts was based on grammar - rules, if you would.

Examples that I should provide, I dont. So you are entirely on target to take me to task.

I would reiterate though, that in the case of "you make me lack" (tu me haces falta - forgive my liberty in the translation, this is to a point) vs. "I lack you" (te extrano - ditto re forgiveness)...

...the point was: in the first instance, it was "tu/you" the subject of the action causing the "missing" - it was YOU who MADE me miss you (language-wise, hence the previous transitive/intransitive attempt by me);

in the second instance it was "Yo/I" the subject of the action of "missing" you.

What I attempted to relay (as some have already said): "you make me lacking (incomplete)" puts much responsibility on the "you/tu" in order to make me whole (outside control), while: "I miss you" puts much responsibility on "yo/me", principally, to help myself not to "miss" you.

Anyway, such verbs as gustar and its use have always facinated me. From my youthful roots in Latin, to Spanish and French, I have always felt "tricked" when using gustar - the person never seem to "logically" agree, to me, as an native English speaker. Why if I like something would I not be the subject of the verb in the sentence (instead: e gusta mucho). It was enriching and though simple to understand the "twist".....that in English it would simply be that "something is pleasing to me".....of seeing it hat way vs. "me liking something".......(I like it, thus it pleases me)

Thanks again for your thoughts and corrections.

wc

 

[Jane J.]

The origin and historical development of language form is by necessity germane and entirely revelant to any discussion/issue of languages.

Look, let's keep the Jacksons out of this.

I think what confuses people when going from phrases like this in English to Spanish is the reversal of the subject and the object.

Don't I know it. I'll never forget before I had any inkling of Spanish, I was at a party at a friend's house in Sosua, and some guy said to me, "Tu si me gustas." I was fresh off the plane, if you will, and I thought he meant that I liked him (and Lesley, I had no excuse because I already had French as a 2nd language). I was all indignant: "Oh no, I don't!" "No, TU me gustas" "No, no, I don't!" "TU a MI me gustas... TU a MI!" "You and me? Never!" This went on and on, and is the kind of memory that comes back to you when you finally do learn to speak and are like...OMG, what a fool I made of myself!

Other things that confuse English speakers are "lo siento," the "ojal?" phenomenon, and the verb "soler." At least to me they did.