PALLIATIVE CARE

william webster

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Jan 16, 2009
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I am very much a senior and have had to deal with cancer surgery and treatment.The narcotic painkillers are available here and so is good care in the east and the capital.. I have two very good servants in the house and I will be relying on them when the time comes that I can not fully look after myself. I have numerous friends in the capital and La Romana ,all widows,who rely on Dominicans who have been in service with them for many years . It really is worthwhile choosing your cook and housekeeper and maybe a gardener/driver with great care with a view to the difficult years ahead. And looking after them well.

Yes Kipling
That's what dulce & I were talking about in the 1st 5 quotes here.

We can all agree on that good 'old age' care is available to many.

Where I went off track originally was putting 'Palliative Care' in the same mix.

Nonetheless, we are getting a lesson from this.
One we hope we will never need to use
 

DRob

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Aug 15, 2007
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controlled medicine is.. well... controlled. only some pharmacies carry it and only some doctors can prescribe it. and i am not even talking about hard core drugs derived from morphine here but also meds to treat depression and mental illnesses.
a family fren is an anesthesiologist in santiago and she says some pain medicine is basically available in hospitals only and for terminal patients.

besides, the focus of the study is likely sad majority of dominican that have no or basic insurance only and who are patients in public hospitals. there is no comparison of their fate as opposed to those with money and good insurance plans.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like quality palliative care (meaning, there's nothing more the docs can do, it's all about comfort management) is available if you can afford it. Not talking about personal nurses at Xanadu, but home health care and real meds thanks to a quality insurance program.

Is that realistic, or is "better care" only limited to the ultra-rich?
 

dv8

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Sep 27, 2006
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from what i have observed among family and friends those who are simply old die at home. seriously ill, even if wealthy, are more likely to be hospitalized in order to assure the best care.
 

cobraboy

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Jul 24, 2004
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from what i have observed among family and friends those who are simply old die at home. seriously ill, even if wealthy, are more likely to be hospitalized in order to assure the best care.
I'm fairly confident palliative home care/Hospice as we know it does not exist in the DR based on numerous conversations with physicians and clinic administrators..
 

Kipling333

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Jan 12, 2010
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I am also sure that there are no hospices in the DR. Maybe I am straying but the major concern to me is the almost complete lack of mobility or the onset of some type of dementia. That is when you need help, especially if you are a widow or widower without family here. One can not expect friends do be with you all the time. I just hope my gardener does not konk out before I do.
 
Oct 11, 2010
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Palliative care usually includes a lot of pain medications such as morphine drips or serious opiates.

That could be a show-stopper in the DR.

I had a Hospice/Home Care for many years. We also had several infusion pharmacies so we could control drug regimines professionally with infusion pumps, clear chain-of-possession, etc. Those procedures are a pipe dream in a country where red lights are suggestions and senior care centers are few and far between. Are Advanced Directives even a thang here?

It's a nice idea, but I'm not so sure the time is right in the DR. I suspect many die in pain.

That said, if I had $20-30 million, I'd bring correct home care/hospice/senior care to the DR properly. I wouldn't care about a profitable business model. I'd cut some deals with the state and private ARS's. Cost reimbursed, like Hospice & Medicare home care used to be.

The best suggestion I could make is to have a serious sit-down with a group of forward-thinking family and specialty physician in the DR and come to some agreement about coordinated palliative care if and when necessary.

Not the case at all. The drugs are readily available.

It's the coordination and care delivery, including high tech infusion pumps for non-institutional settings.

When my mother was in HOMS not long ago she was on an infusion pump. I asked the infusion team about the pump, if others were available with lock-outs, etc. She said that was the only pump the hospital used.

A non-institution pump is diffeent than a pump in a hospital. It's designed for the home environment without the complexity of a one-pump-for-everything institutional pump. I don't know the price today, but 20 years ago they were around $1000 for the least expensive model. 

I asked the nurse how common PICC or central lines were (semi-permanent venous access devices) and she said very rare, that peripheral lines is what they used even for chronic patients (think end-stage AIDS.) I asked about poor veins, and she said it was a real problem for them occasionally, especially with elders.

It's nearly impossible to do palliative care with peripheral IV lines. Peripheral lines in a typical Dominican dust and microbe-rich home environment with caregivers with little education? You're asking for massive infections that can be worse for a compromised patioent that their base disease is!

Thank you for these EXCELLENT and what should be, eye opening posts for many.

Without getting too technical, what scares the hell out of me is your observation and statement above which I will partially requote here with my own emphasis: "I asked the nurse how common PICC or central lines were (semi-permanent venous access devices) and she said VERY RARE, that peripheral lines is what they used even for chronic patients (think end-stage AIDS.) I asked about poor veins, and she said it was a real problem for them occasionally, especially with elders.

This is HOMS, . . . in Santiago, . . . which according to many here, is one of the BEST medical facilities in the ENTIRE COUNTRY.

Again, without getting too technical, ANYBODY in the medical field will know, and many with general knowledge of medical procedures should know, that the use of "Central Lines" should be a common and integral part of ANY competent hospital or health care facility in a "metropolitan" area and especially one that has this supposed "reputation" that HOMS in Santiago seems to enjoy with so many here.

Although it shouldn't surprise me, as I have personally seen how even the placement and care of "Peripheral IVs" is "questionable" in many "clinics/hospitals" throughout the country. Your first hand experience and eye-opening post serves as part of what is the true and stark reality of the of the level of the MAJORITY of medical care generally available here in the Dominican Republic. And the nurse's statement as a scathing indictment of HOMS' supposed "higer level" of available care. I now wonder, compared to what?

I know there will be posts of how "I had robotic prostate surgery" at HOMS and it was "equal to or better than the medical care I get in my home (first world) country" or how "my well-to-do neighbor who lives in the United States flew to the Dominican Republic and had her open heart surgery in "so-and-so" clinic in Santo Domingo and is fine and wouldn't think of having any procedures done "anywhere else." As well as many others here who have had "positive" personal experiences. These are nice, wonderful stories, but they are anecdotal and certainly not a representation of what is generally and easily available to the average person living in the Dominican Republic.

The areas of "Elder Care" certainly overlap, and  Palliative Care (Hospice), Home Care, Institutionalized Care, Senior Care, End of Life Care, etc. are not mutually exclusive and share modalities of medical care common to all of them. Just one example mentioned in this thread, the issue of effective, efficient and consistent pain management alone, generally available here in the Dominican Republic, fails across a wide spectrum of medical care from dentistry through trauma medicine, and obviously the care available here during the "Final Stages of Life". Or actually the care NOT available here, as the quoted study indicates. And what might be even more alarming is the ultimate finding of that particular study that "The DR was ranked the WORST country for palliative care in the 2015 Quality of Death Index." The worst.

"End of Life Care", whether administered within the home or an institutional setting can be a fairly complex endeavor depending on the patient''s specific concerns. The complexities can involve quick access to qualified doctors, not just geriatric specialists but specialists from a broad spectrum of medical fields, as well as a diversity of medications and medical equipment way too numerous to mention. Without getting specific, I have to wonder if those absolute necessities are available on a general basis here in the Dominican Republic, or for some more specialized concerns, even at all in this country. Based on what I have seen, and objective observations such as "Cobraboy's" posts above, I doubt it.

It is comforting to have seen Dominican families generally caring for their elder members towards the end of their liives in a home setting. The "patient" obviously "feels" better, surrounded by family and friends to comfort them during their later years. I have seen it myself numerous times over the years and depending on a patient's needs was quite often adequate. But I have all too often seen the suffering of the elderly, not due to any lack of comfort or care delivered by their immediate friends or family living with them, but by lack of availability to the basic needs of the geriatric patient. It can be heartbreaking.

Many like to point out how the "culture" here is to take care of their elder family members at home. As posted here: "They prefer to not send their relative to the hospital for care unless absolutely necessary." Well, perhaps it is not as simple as they "prefer" not to. Perhaps the overwhelming majority simply have no choice.
 

Matilda

RIP Lindsay
Sep 13, 2006
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Where I live, in the campo, I have seen many sent home to die. The family say it is so that God can decide when the time is right. The reality is that they do not have the money to pay for intensive care for their loved one. There is zero palliative care
in terms of appropriate pain relief and when family have to fly in from Nuevo Yol with 3 days holiday they need the inevitable end to come quickly. Which it does with "the injection". Most of the Dominicans I have seen die in poor areas have been "put to sleep" so that the costs are reduced and the family from overseas do not have to wait for longer than they have to for the inevitable.

Matilda
 

cobraboy

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Jul 24, 2004
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NY-DR Commuter, I think the central issue is money. The money and costs drive everything in health care.

It's not lack of education, caring or intent. What purpose is there in learning about high-tech home care and off-site technologies if there is no money for home care?

In the states, I recall 80% of the healthcare dollar is spent on patients last 90 days of life. Homecare became popular as a cost-saving strategy. Recall Gubernator Lamm D-CO famous ''You've got a duty to die and get out of the way" speech.

I got into home care in the early-80's and high-tech home care (IV Therapy) in the mid-80's. Medicare, Medicaid and Insurance companies loved us because we could save them enormous sums of cheese. The industry evolved and we began taking care of all manner of vulnerable patients---ventilator patients, hemophilia, COPD patients, short-term antibiotics, 5FU chemo, pre-chemo anti-emetics, enteral feedings, HIV/AIDS (when it was a death sentence) and other high-tech therapies---at home, saving institutions beds, and saving payors 90% over the same therapies done inpatient.

This includes Hospice. I got into Hospice because of our AIDS patients. When they got really sick and everybody knew the drain was being circled we had to hand off patients, who we'd known for years doing IV therapies, to a bunch of matronly nurses dressed in dark clothing who wanted to talk about the stages of dying to a 25 y.o. guy who saw dozens of his friends die of the same thing. So I got a Hospice CON to make sure the same nurses who had treated them as an IV nurse could treat them as a Hospice nurse while they were actively dying. That's my version of "vertical integration."

A small factoid in FL: under FL law at the time, a Hospice nurse and EMT could pronounce death, but not a home care nurse...even if it was the same nurse working for a different company. So if the inevitable happened before our patient went to hospice our nurse was required to call 911 and the EMT's would come sirens blazing for all the neighborhood to see, only to find what we already knew: the patient died. Under Hospice, we could call 911 and the ambulance would not come sirens blazing. The difference doesn't sound like a lot but our clients didn't want any post-death drama. Before becoming a Hospice provider, we legally had to create the drama.

Back then the biggest challenge we faced was convincing doctors we could do it at home as well as a facility could.

The DR is no way near the need for home care. To add homecare to the current system is to add costs to it, exactly the opposite of the US. The DR cannot afford it for all it's citizens.

The dynamics are entirely different in the DR. You have public clinics without sterile gauze and antibiotics because the resources are stretched so thin. You see kids with ratty plaster casts. You see pills doled out at the pharmacy one at a time.

I'm not sure it's reasonable to expect the DR to make a quantum leap into palliative care for a decade or more. Politicians may talk about it, but I'm not sure there is enough cheese to spread around.
 

william webster

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Jan 16, 2009
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Hello Dr Kevorkian....

Canada has just opened the door a little for this.

I see nothing wrong with it.

Many have a DNR clause..(do not resuscitate ) at their bedside,
'The Injection' goes hand in hand ---- IMO

A valuable piece of information Matilda.... gracias
That and the cremation address is all someone needs
 

wuarhat

I am a out of touch hippie.
Nov 13, 2006
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Clearly, there are things lacking here...

When my diagnosis in STI came back & I was sent to the oncologist, he encouraged me in no uncertain (Spanish) terms to get out of the country.
He made is clear that what I needed wasn't available in RD.

That was a Wednesday afternoon---- I flew Saturday AM

I'm sorry my original post was a bit off target but this discussion is worthwhile ---IMO

That reminds me: When my wife's green card visa came through for her to enter the US, I went to Santo Domingo to accompany her back to our home. Two hours after I arrived she had a seizure and the scans they did showed abnormalities in her head which in the end turned out be cancer. They did not diagnose there. When I explained our circumstances, and asked if there was any way we could leave the country as planned, his reaction was as if an angel had appeared before him. Yes, yes, you must, but take her to the hospital immediately when you get there this is very serious.
 

dulce

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Jan 1, 2002
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dulce
you & I are talking more about 'old age' care....it seems

the strict definition of palliative care is another matter....more medical assistance required

Ahhh True. I was speaking of any kind of medical care. Sorry about that. I did not mean to stray from the original subject. I am not too familiar with palliative care in the DR. I do hope to learn more about it now in this thread. Thank you for the correction.
 
Oct 11, 2010
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Cobraboy, very interesting background info, thanks.

I agree that the central issue is money, and also agree that the unavailability of adequate "end of life care" is not due to a lack of caring or intent in most cases. However, lack of education, is ABSOLUTELY one of the major contributing factors for the inadequacies of  "end of life care" and for that matter, the level of medical care generally available here in the Dominican Republic. As the study in the OP clearly states : "The study factors that directly influenced the bad local ranking were deficient policy of palliative care, deficient focus on treatment in the final stages of life, lack of legislation, insufficient resources and lack of knowledge on the subject by health professionals." It's undeniable.

My personal background in healthcare is more related to EMS, working with two ACS Level I Trauma Centers in New York. So in my particular case this makes me acutely aware of two diametrically opposed levels of healthcare, here in the Dominican Republic and in New York in the United States. And while this is certainly not an apple to apples comparison of medical care availability in the case of "elder care", in many other instances it is.

Looking forward to your input as this thread progresses.
 

william webster

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Jan 16, 2009
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Ahhh True. I was speaking of any kind of medical care. Sorry about that. I did not mean to stray from the original subject. I am not too familiar with palliative care in the DR. I do hope to learn more about it now in this thread. Thank you for the correction.

No no.. I took it off track from the start and was corrected.....

But the information coming from here is really, really valuable stuff...... at least is to me.
 

cobraboy

Pro-Bono Demolition Hobbyist
Jul 24, 2004
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Cobraboy, very interesting background info, thanks.

I agree that the central issue is money, and also agree that the unavailability of adequate "end of life care" is not due to a lack of caring or intent in most cases. However, lack of education, is ABSOLUTELY one of the major contributing factors for the inadequacies of  "end of life care" and for that matter, the level of medical care generally available here in the Dominican Republic. As the study in the OP clearly states : "The study factors that directly influenced the bad local ranking were deficient policy of palliative care, deficient focus on treatment in the final stages of life, lack of legislation, insufficient resources and lack of knowledge on the subject by health professionals." It's undeniable.

My personal background in healthcare is more related to EMS, working with two ACS Level I Trauma Centers in New York. So in my particular case this makes me acutely aware of two diametrically opposed levels of healthcare, here in the Dominican Republic and in New York in the United States. And while this is certainly not an apple to apples comparison of medical care availability in the case of "elder care", in many other instances it is.

Looking forward to your input as this thread progresses.
IMO, the study doesn't address one practical issue, and actually describes a paradox: If no resources exist for a mode of therapy, what is the point of educating even professionals about it?

While certainly not true of all physicians and allied professionals in the country, the vast majority of those who studied abroad certainly do know of the needs of palliative and home care. But since there are no resources to address the issue, they focus instead on what they DO have and CAN provide.

And there is not enough wealth in terms of people to create a viable system of palliative and home care. I wish there were. I'd have a viable. doable business plan put together in a month.
 

dulce

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Jan 1, 2002
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No no.. I took it off track from the start and was corrected.....

But the information coming from here is really, really valuable stuff...... at least is to me.

I agree.
Snakeboy  has some valuable knowledgeable information. 
Many good responses to this issue.