Pan Am Airways to take over Air Santo Domingo flights

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Samana1

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Jan 4, 2002
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www.samana-peninsula.com
Since Air Santo Domingo is in financial problems, after cut SDQ-New York JFK route they have also cut SDQ-SanJuan,PR route, Air Santo Domingo is still flying to Puerto Rico with their own small jets, to Isla Grande.

From 1st of September Pan Am Airways will start operations on SDQ-SJU route with 5 weekly flight adding on 1st of November a 2nd flight with also a 5 weekly frequency.

Schedule as follows; effective 1st of September 2004

PN 0019 SJU 06:30 - 07:45 SDQ (Daily except Sat,Sun Op by B727-200)
PN 0014 SDQ 09:00 - 10:15 SJU (Daily except Sat,Sun Op by B727-200)

effective 1st November 2004

PN 0019 SJU 06:30 - 07:45 SDQ (Daily except Sat,Sun Op by B727-200)
PN 0014 SDQ 09:00 - 10:15 SJU (Daily except Sat,Sun Op by B727-200)

PN 0011 SJU 17:30 - 18:45 SDQ (Daily except Sat,Sun Op by B727-200)
PN 0012 SDQ 20:00 - 21:15 SJU (Daily except Sat,Sun Op by B727-200)
 
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Porfio_Rubirosa

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Apr 26, 2002
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santobonao said:
:) great! seeing Pan am back at service on the route with 727-200.
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Pathetic. I went to the Pan Am website. Most of the flights will be in Jetstream 19-seaters. Enjoy 'em while they last.
 
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Bugsey34

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Feb 15, 2002
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Please, people. For your own safety. DO NOT fly Pan Am... learn from my mistakes! I have won every contest of "worst travel nightmare" by telling my Pan Am story!
 
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Porfio_Rubirosa

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Apr 26, 2002
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Bugsey34 said:
Please, people. For your own safety. DO NOT fly Pan Am... learn from my mistakes! I have won every contest of "worst travel nightmare" by telling my Pan Am story!
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Do tell! BTW, was the owner, Timothy Mellon, the pilot of your plane?
 
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ricktoronto

Grande Pollo en Boca Chica
Jan 9, 2002
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And anyone who buys a ticket on this or other no name operators, please do not post your tales of woe and problems with schedules, refunds, etc., like Aeromar passengers did. You reap what you sow and price is not the sole ciriteria for making a decision to fly with someone.
 
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cara

New member
Feb 21, 2003
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lets bet, for how long PA will flight that route.

Until february 2005........................................
 
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DRInMySoul

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Aug 30, 2004
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Bugsey34 said:
Please, people. For your own safety. DO NOT fly Pan Am... learn from my mistakes! I have won every contest of "worst travel nightmare" by telling my Pan Am story!
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oh plz do tell!!!!! i adore bad travel stories for some reason..lol
 
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Porfio_Rubirosa

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Apr 26, 2002
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Escott said:
Quit being such a jealous bitch and let PanAm have their day in the sun!

How are you and how have you been and when are you coming back?

Escott
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And "a day" in the sun is what it will be! Something about those guys at Pan Am just rubs me the wrong way.

Check for a PM, Escott.
 
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Flakko

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Dec 5, 2003
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Hi people

I gotta tell you a few things about PAN AM...

That PAN AM it's owned by the leader company in train service in the US.
I forgot the name, but I'll get it for you.
The owner is a good friend of Mr George W. Bush, that means, he gotta have money...
They got 25 Jetstream 31, the largest fleet in the U.S.
Among those, they got one with dominican registration. They plan to use for flights Santiago de Los Caballeros,Dom. Rep. to Santiago de Cuba.
They have different divisions:
Boston-Maine, that flies locally in the US.
PAN AM Dominicana, for those flights to Puerto Rico.

As an example, they got around 10 flights from Boston, MA to Trenton, NJ with the J31's. They fly from Florida to Puerto Rico and they have several routes within the U.S. Specifically in the east coast.

The bought a fleet of Boeing 727's from Continental and they plan to use DR as hub for flights to the Wes Indies or Lesser Antilles and Latin America.
They already have dominicans being trained to fly the Jetstream 31's as co-pilots in New Hamsphire.

So...
This PAN AM is not Aeromar or Air Santo Domingo. This is a totally different airline, maybe isn't the best, but is not a dominican airline.

You probably will be saying, is this guy crazy, maybe you won't believe me and gotta be asking yourselves, how he knows all that???
Well, somebody in my family was hired as co-pilot for the J31's.

Flakko
 
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Porfio_Rubirosa

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Apr 26, 2002
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Flakko said:
That PAN AM it's owned by the leader company in train service in the US.
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Guilford Transportation is the name. The "leader company". Hardly. It bought the regional lines in Northern New England that Conrail didn't want.

The owner is a good friend of Mr George W. Bush, that means, he gotta have money....
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Well, I'll grant you that to be a good friend of George W. Bush, you GOTTA have money. He wouldn't want any other friends, and never has.

But, in Mellon's case, it's called burning through the family inheritance while flying your own 727.

...they plan to use DR as hub for flights to the Wes Indies or Lesser Antilles and Latin America.
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Yea, we've heard that one before. Tell us about the new "maintenance facility" in Barahona also!

I hope after your family member is trained he can get a job with a real airline.
 
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Dilettante

New member
Nov 25, 2002
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Ok folks, it's time to clue you in to Pan Am:

1. Dave Fink (Pan Am's minority owner, Mellon being the vast majority owner) IS NOT a personal friend of President Bush. Just because Fink has a picture of himself and Pres. Bush on his desk, like a million other people do, does not make him a friend. In fact, Bush would not be able to pick Fink out of a 3 person line up of Fink and 2 Victoria Secret models.

2. Fink has no previous airline experience, but 30 years in the railroad business. It is painfully obvious.

3. His railroad has a reputation that is no better than his airlines'. No surprises there. Really, what do you expect?

4. Boston-Maine airways and pan am are wholly owned by Gilford Railways and the planes are LEASED to pan am and boston maine by guilford. boston-maine's J31's are maintenance pigs and notoriously undependable. Most of them sit in the hanger in various stages of repair.

5. Boston-maine just recieved DOT and FAA authority of operate 727's. Pathetically, it took BMA over two years to get that authority. The reason they want the 727's is to hire non-union pilots and bust the current ALPA union Pan am pilots. Gilford has applied similar tactics in the past. Right now BMA only has authrity to operate 3 727's, but will eventually attempt to disolve pan am (and the unionized pilots) and run BMA as "pan am, the clipper connection". The idea here is that the union pilots' pay is to blame and not inept and pathetic management. Give me a break.

6. Most BMA flights are empty or almost emtpy. Although they list all these flights on there website. Most are cancelled for zero passengers.

7. Pan Am Dominicana is something that has been around for a while. Pan Am set up this certificate and I don't think anybody knows why. 536PA is the only j31 on the certificate as of last check. It's just plain weird.

8. Pan am bought a bunch of 727's from United (not Continental) with a caveat in the contract that pan am can not use them in passenger service in the United States (an compete w/ United). Pan am and BMA are still trying to weasle around that clause.

9. Pan am and BMA are run by remarkable incompetent people. It is truely frieghtening. In contrast, most of the people who work FOR these morons are very knowledgeable and experienced. Go figure.

10. The horror stories of re-routes and cancelled flights, people unable to get refunds (the constant runaround), mechanical problems, etc... are true to a degree that is mind-boggling. You have only heard the tip of the iceburg. I could be here all day.

11. The Pan am and BMA bus is driven by their marketing department. This department is the Holy Grail of stupidity. Think of a map on the wall. Throw darts at the map and connect the darts by string. This is essentially the secret of success in their route structure. As soon as they owe too much money to the airport or ground handle (they almost always contract ground handling), they remove the dart (pull out of the market) and try again. A true stroke of genius.

This is just for starters. Thought you would want to know.
 
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Porfio_Rubirosa

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Apr 26, 2002
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Is it a coincidence that your user name is "Dilettante"? I ask that because Timothy Mellon once sued a reporter for calling him a "dilettante" in a newspaper column. The federal circuit court ruled that this was protected speech under the First Amendment to the US Constitution and, essentially, that Mellon and Fink could go pound sand.

I liked your comment about creating a route system by throwing darts at a map and then removing them as airport or ground handling payments become overdue. Yes, this seems to be the methodology.

Mellon is a big Republican supporter but, more than that, he supports genuinely wacky right wing organizations too.

I would love to know exactly how much he inherited, how much he has invested into Pan Am, and how much he has lost. Of course, at the end of the day, as long as he has a few dollars and suckers willing to believe he owns a real airline, he still gets to put on that really neat uniform and fly that 727-ADV ("ADV" meaning that hush kits have been put on the ancient engines so that the Feds will continue to let them fly).

Dilettante said:
9Pan am and BMA are run by remarkable incompetent people. It is truely frieghtening. In contrast, most of the people who work FOR these morons are very knowledgeable and experienced. Go figure.
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You or a family member wouldn't have been one of those "knowledgeable and experienced" people, would you???
 
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Dilettante

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Nov 25, 2002
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Coincidence??? I don't think so.

Mellon is a strange bird. Quiet really. He's purely the money man and rarely participates in the day to day stuff. He has not flown the line in forever in the 727's. He gave that up after he skidded off an icy runway in Gary, Ind. Not to mention the hard landing that opened all the overhead baggage doors on a maiden flight of a newly opened pan am route. He still flies a tomahawk (affectionatly know as the traumahawk). I guess money can't really buy aviator skill. JFK jr. taught us that, too (God rest his soul). I don't know how much he inherited only to say that the amount is very large. Huge.

As far as pan am losses go they are significant. By comparison though, BMA's are worse considering the aircraft and scope of the operation. Both airlines are lossing millions each year. Load factors (yes, i know they are an overused statistic, but for comparison purposes...) AVERAGE 30-35% for pan am. Sure they fill the aircraft once in a while during peak travel times, but usually the flights woefully empty. It's a true testement to pan am's reliability and reputation. Their fate was decided in the first two years of scheduled service when the reputation as undependable was established. Now pan am's reputation preceeds them wherever they go. Marketing drove the pan am bus......right off the cliff. The funny part is that several KEY (think VP level) personel in market just jumped ship (no loss actually) and, as usual, nobody has been hired to replace them. With nobody to drive the bus maybe they will get lucky and make some money. Sometimes it's better to be lucky than good.

You can actually get basic financial statement (these are padded, i'm sure) on the DMS.gov website using a simple search with boston-maine airways or pan american airways corp. This is a great source of information as to what they are up to and to what they have done. Did you know they were fined for unfair and deceptive business practices for the way they false advertised boston-maine airways tickets as being pan am tickets? Another brilliant example as to the fact that their marketing depart is clueless.

You can fly them if you want. The pan am pilots are top notch pro's with tons of experiance. I know them all and would trust them. It's the TOP management that drags the operation down. The true potential of the airline can NEVER be realized under the current top management. The people who are near the top who know what they are doing are just knocked down just like everybody else. It's truly sad.
 
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