- Thread starter RenatoSosua
- Start date
PLD: 29 senadur?as
Maybe, but they ~feeeeeel~ all warm and fuzzy about their solidarity...:cheeky:
Elections matter. Results matter. BS and good intentions don't...
It would be fine if those who decided to marginalize themselves by not voting would also do so in the criticism department. But, no that will not happen.
I won't be surprised if they are the first one's to complain about the new 'caudillismo' or the new 'dictatorship,' while conveniently forgetting that they brought it upon themselves.
Not that 'cuadillismo/dictatorship' is what will be in place, hardly. But, if you have the ability to vote and you decide to forgo that right; please, forgo the right to open your mouth too.
:cheeky:
The people get what they deserve. As far as I'm concerned, by not voting, nulls your right to bitch and moan about the outcome.
Unfortunately elections here have almost nothing to do with actually wanting to make the country better or serve the people, it's all about money, power and greed.
Most candidates are completely clueless when it comes to actually governing or serving the people that voted for them. Most have never written a policy or campaigned based on their policies etc.
Amable must have been throwing a serious amount of chickens and money from his helicopter over the past week. It's a wonder he didn't buy a "Chinook" with tax payers money to make it easier
Unfortunately elections here have almost nothing to do with actually wanting to make the country better or serve the people, it's all about money, power and greed.
Most candidates are completely clueless when it comes to actually governing or serving the people that voted for them. Most have never written a policy or campaigned based on their policies etc.
Amable must have been throwing a serious amount of chickens and money from his helicopter over the past week. It's a wonder he didn't buy a "Chinook" with tax payers money to make it easier
For that large percentage that did not vote is there any serious and honest politician out there that can come in and fill that vacuum? Another party that can capitalize on this discontentment? Unfortunately I am pessimistic about this.
It's pretty typical for non-presidential elections to have significantly lower turnout. It's true in the DR as well as the US.
I'm not sure it's "discontent." Broad discontent would energize opposing parties, once again, look at the US both in '08 and the upcoming '10 elections...
Never confuse apathy for discontent.
So all the Participaci?n Ciudadana observers were hallucinating?
Retrasos, violencia, proselitismo y compra de cedulas en elecciones congresuales y municipales del 2010.
I was talking with a friend who is in the DR, he being an ignorant tells me that he didn't vote because they are all the same and his vote won't make a difference. I told him he just lost his right to bitch an moan about politicos right there. Some people....
A Tiguere out of la Union (Sosua) who was "volunteering" for the "campaign" efforts of one candidate who surprisingly did not win, told me:
"La culpa e' de el. El tenia que comprai mas cedulas(!). Lo que pasa es que a el no le gusta gastai y ahora, aqui 'tamo' con la vaina!"
Coming from an 18 year old with a weak 5th grade public school "education" and knowing about squat about politics (as we would rate "knowing" and "politics"), I thought that was the "political" statement which closes the curtain on the whole show.
Look, it's not just what went on during the voting.
It's the campaigning itself, all the music with poor message content, "tam-tam", giving out "gifts" (ayuda pa el pueblo) ranging from freezers and fridges to those who don't get electricity for the rest of the year anyway, to generous distribution of these elongated plastic tubes stuffed with fat, shredded chicken heads and flour they erroneously like to call "Salami", down to beer and rum during "campaign events" where people are enthused to chant along to a message not much more developed than "WE will win".
The concentration of "works" being done only around every other February 'til mid May period, in the hopes to fool with the people's memory and suggest, that after all, a particular seating candidate IS been working.
And finally, what most of us don't get to hear much about it; the power struggles behind the curtains, even inside parties where candidates are faced with having to battle up not just against political and financial interests of a few "royalties" and their yard fools but their henchmen's threats of murder.
"CLEAN" NAL's? If that's what you call clean, you must not be able to see what's going on on the streets thru your windows. Try Windex! Let the sun come in, it's nice out there!
On the other hand, applause for your "No vote-No moan" comment on post #26!
... J-D
"La culpa e' de el. El tenia que comprai mas cedulas(!). Lo que pasa es que a el no le gusta gastai y ahora, aqui 'tamo' con la vaina!"
:cheeky:
Was the candidate perceived as too honest, or just codo?
Was the candidate perceived as too honest, or just codo?
Coming from an 18 year old with a weak 5th grade public school "education" and knowing about squat about politics (as we would rate "knowing" and "politics"), I thought that was the "political" statement which closes the curtain on the whole show.
Look, it's not just what went on during the voting.
It's the campaigning itself, all the music with poor message content, "tam-tam", giving out "gifts" (ayuda pa el pueblo) ranging from freezers and fridges to those who don't get electricity for the rest of the year anyway, to generous distribution of these elongated plastic tubes stuffed with fat, shredded chicken heads and flour they erroneously like to call "Salami", down to beer and rum during "campaign events" where people are enthused to chant along to a message not much more developed than "WE will win".
The concentration of "works" being done only around every other February 'til mid May period, in the hopes to fool with the people's memory and suggest, that after all, a particular seating candidate IS been working.
And finally, what most of us don't get to hear much about it; the power struggles behind the curtains, even inside parties where candidates are faced with having to battle up not just against political and financial interests of a few "royalties" and their yard fools but their henchmen's threats of murder.
"CLEAN" NAL's? If that's what you call clean, you must not be able to see what's going on on the streets thru your windows. Try Windex! Let the sun come in, it's nice out there!
On the other hand, applause for your "No vote-No moan" comment on post #26!
... J-D
He does see what's going on through his window...it's just his window is NOT in The DR.
On a different note you'd think that there would be a recount for some of these places. For instance the PLD and allied parties won Pedernales. They were losing there up until the last few bulletins and the winning difference was 24 votes for the whole province. The PRD definitely needs to be smarter and ally themselves with more people. They would have won over there if they had ****ed off Hatuey de Camps whose party got almost 4% of the vote.
Too bad. With all the good roadwork being done, there should be elections every 6 months...:cheeky:
I think the definition of "clean" is different in developing countries. Here "clean" means no overt ballot box stuffing/theft or political assaninations. Elsewhere it means voters aren't confused by butterfly ballots (for example.)
One major difference in politics here is it is so much more personal than in the states (or most likely Europe and canada.)
We look for politicians to offer more esoteric promises: healthcare reform, border security, banking reg/deregs, etc...promises that really don't impact folks in a meaningful way short term.
But here? Folks want/need free stuff NOW! A chicken, salami or skim ice today is more impactful on lives than some bureaucratic promise that may materialize down the road.
A helicopter dropping pesos to a crowd below is more important than a politician pledging "hope and change" to the common man. Weird, yes, but true.
It's that Maslowian thingy: folks can't strive for self-actualization before they climb to higher levels from where they are today. Westerners have a difficult time wrapping their brains around that concept.
So by comparison, yes, these elections-by local standards-may very well be considered "clean."
What do you mean? You do have a secret ballot. You can still vote for whoever you wish...
Not DR related but an interesting article no the less and can be used for comparisons.
Corrupt Nation: A back-country Camelot
There is something to say about the obligation to vote in Belgium for example.
Some people don't like it but will still have a go to try to understand what the different parties can offer them.
Some people will vote and protest by making sure that their vote cannot be counted and thats their free right.
The ones who would vote even is if was not mandatory go in the program of the different parties, compare with their achievements in the past years and base their vote on that.
The "older" generations will vote like they alway's did, same partie everytime...just because its tradition.
Gave last year a no win situation for every partie, coalitions did not work out well with the result that Belgium was without a true working goverenment for about 8 months and new elections beginning of june this year.
Still, I am convincend that the obligation to vote should stay in the constitutional because its gives a better insight view on how ALL Belgian people think about their representatives and of their own lifes.
Some people don't like it but will still have a go to try to understand what the different parties can offer them.
Some people will vote and protest by making sure that their vote cannot be counted and thats their free right.
The ones who would vote even is if was not mandatory go in the program of the different parties, compare with their achievements in the past years and base their vote on that.
The "older" generations will vote like they alway's did, same partie everytime...just because its tradition.
Gave last year a no win situation for every partie, coalitions did not work out well with the result that Belgium was without a true working goverenment for about 8 months and new elections beginning of june this year.
Still, I am convincend that the obligation to vote should stay in the constitutional because its gives a better insight view on how ALL Belgian people think about their representatives and of their own lifes.
Two interesting articles in today's Diario Libre/English...one on how the alliances got the PLD 13 Senate seats and the other blasting Miguel Vargas' leadership and policies in these elections.
One said that in Pedernales the difference was 4 votes but that couldhave been a typo.
Good reading,
And on the Gobierno de la Ma?ana, they were talking about the all-time high abstention rates, over 42%...
A look at the numbers shows that skillful alliances made the difference. The PLD is NOT the most popular party, in spite of the billions it spent. The PRD, by itself, had a bit more than 40% of the popular vote. And Bernardo Vega was proved to be 100% right...jejeje
HB
One said that in Pedernales the difference was 4 votes but that couldhave been a typo.
Good reading,
And on the Gobierno de la Ma?ana, they were talking about the all-time high abstention rates, over 42%...
A look at the numbers shows that skillful alliances made the difference. The PLD is NOT the most popular party, in spite of the billions it spent. The PRD, by itself, had a bit more than 40% of the popular vote. And Bernardo Vega was proved to be 100% right...jejeje
HB
Yes The PRD needs to put aside their "pride" and internal fighting and ally themselves with as many other parties as possible. Leonel knows this thus he courted them heavily and as a result today they have ALL senators. If PRSC had been allied with PRD instead of PLD and PRD had also brought back Hatuey's party into it's fold they would now have about 1/2 all senators. If you're in politics looking to get rich The PRSC is the party to belong to right now as they represent the swing vote.
Speaking of alliances I was surprised to see that in many places MIUCA had allied themselves with The PRD.
Speaking of alliances I was surprised to see that in many places MIUCA had allied themselves with The PRD.
There is in some areas:
Comisi?n JCE se traslada a La Vega para recuento de votos nulos
Revisar?n actas R?o San Juan
And the Camera Contenciosa is clearly expecting challenges to existing results:
Olivares dice se presentar?n muchas impugnaciones luego del ?ltimo bolet?n
PRD afirma hay diferencia de 300 mil votos y dice que ?ste ser? el Senado m?s ileg?timo
And on abstention rate, an article on differences between JCE & OAS
JCE-OEA difieren marcadamente en cuant?a abstenci?n