President Abinader: DR will not take part in military intervention in Haiti

aarhus

www.johnboyter.com
Jun 10, 2008
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Let us see how quickly the Kenyans are killed or leave Haiti and then we will see, won't we?
Leave Haiti is more likely. Not killed. I don’t think these Kenyans are amateurs. And maybe the media has made these gangs look more menacing than they really are. BBQ has the right marketable nickname but looks fat. The last one they found looks like a rapper. I forget his name.
 

Naked_Snake

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Sep 2, 2008
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Leave Haiti is more likely. Not killed. I don’t think these Kenyans are amateurs. And maybe the media has made these gangs look more menacing than they really are. BBQ has the right marketable nickname but looks fat. The last one they found looks like a rapper. I forget his name.
Guy Philippe?
 

El Hijo de Manolo

It's outrageous, egregious, preposterous!
Dec 10, 2021
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Guy Philippe?
IMG_0187.jpeg
 

Big

Well-known member
Apr 24, 2019
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Let us see how quickly the Kenyans are killed or leave Haiti and then we will see, won't we?

I will stick to whatever I like.... Haiti won't be fixed.
No one said it would. You said 200 Kenyan troops will be killed. You clearly have never served in any branch of the military, anywhere. You know not about an M4 or an M134, yet you comment 200 troops will be killed. So much negative energy. Did someone steal your tip jar again
 

Naked_Snake

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I really don't know what 200 will accomplish, considering they will be broken up into teams and deployed to different sectors with different orders.
It is clearly a woefully inadequate amount even if they are fully armed and trained for such a densely packed country, specially since they will be sent precisely to the densest part of it (and the island as a whole). Gangs would only need to gather a sufficient enough mass of people to make a Banzai rush on them in order for all to be over.
 

johne

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Jun 28, 2003
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Another topic you clearly have zero knowledge about. Military applications and deployments. Stick with overstaying tourist cards, playing keyboards and water supply in Cabarete
Hey! And electrical outages?
 
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windeguy

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Jul 10, 2004
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No one said it would. You said 200 Kenyan troops will be killed. You clearly have never served in any branch of the military, anywhere. You know not about an M4 or an M134, yet you comment 200 troops will be killed. So much negative energy. Did someone steal your tip jar again
I never had a tip jar. So that can't be it.

What difference does serving in the military or not have to do with this?
What differences does it make how the Kenyans are armed?

Once again realism is confused for pessimism.
 
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El Hijo de Manolo

It's outrageous, egregious, preposterous!
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I honestly don't get it. As Big said, many of us don't have that military experience perspective and that's absolutely true. That said I can't seem to get out of my head two very significant historical events where unnecessary military and civilian lives were lost. We need to keep our eyes on the ball. We thought we knew what we were getting into, but 2 key wartime fundamentals were not heeded: 1, never underestimate your enemy and 2, home turf advantage. I mean, this is no sneak attack folks, the Haitian gangs and other bad actors are well-aware of what's coming. Hopefully, someone has an ace up their sleeve and I don't mean Haiti!
 
Jan 9, 2004
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It seems the line between police and military has been blurred.

The people being sent have been characterized as a police force.....not military troops. Whatever they are, their roles/goals appear to be blurred.....perhaps intentionally.

They are supposedly being sent.....not to engage in combat, but rather to restore some semblance of peace and calm among the citizenry.

Whatever they are, they are going to be in Haiti for a long time to achieve any sort of law and order. And unfortunately after they announce they have "achieved their goal," Haiti will likely return to its ruinous self..............at least until 2121 which is the 5 generation time frame needed to effect real societal change.


Respectfully,
Playacaribe2
 
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Jan 9, 2004
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You make it seem like a food drive or other Salvation Army intiative

On the contrary, it will be nothing like a food drive or Salvation Army initiative…..and that certainly was not the intent of the post.

That having been said, I would speculate they will also be distributing food as a way to win support from the citizenry. They are going to need all the support they can get.

And while Abinader has indicated he will not take part in military intervention, this operation is being sold to the world as a police force intervention. Abinader may not like it and will continue to say so publicly at least until the election is over, he will likely “help” in ways that provide cover for his statement.

Respectfully,
Playacaribe2
 

Ecoman1949

Born to Ride.
Oct 17, 2015
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On the contrary, it will be nothing like a food drive or Salvation Army initiative…..and that certainly was not the intent of the post.

That having been said, I would speculate they will also be distributing food as a way to win support from the citizenry. They are going to need all the support they can get.

And while Abinader has indicated he will not take part in military intervention, this operation is being sold to the world as a police force intervention. Abinader may not like it and will continue to say so publicly at least until the election is over, he will likely “help” in ways that provide cover for his statement.

Respectfully,
Playacaribe2
PC2. It’s my understanding the multinational forces comprised mainly of police, are there to assist the Haitian police establish law and order and are under the direction of the Haitian police. Thats what came out of the negotiations required by the Kenyan court before the Kenyan government could sign the deployment deal with the Haitian interim government.

That’s a better sell than saying the Kenyans are leading the charge. Also an easier pill for the interim government representatives to swallow and sell to the Haitian public. The Haitian police know very well who their enemy’s are, how they operate, and probably their weak points after face to face confrontation with the gangs for the past two years. If the gang leaders ever commit to peaceful negotiations, it will probably be face to face negotiations with the Haitian police, not the Kenyans or other multinational forces.

I assume the first 200 Kenyans will be a recon group to help them and the other multinational force members figure out the lay of the land, not to enter into direct combat with the gangs as soon as their boots land on Haitian soil. That would be a recipe for disaster.
 

Big

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Apr 24, 2019
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I never had a tip jar. So that can't be it.

What difference does serving in the military or not have to do with this?
What differences does it make how the Kenyans are armed?

Once again realism is confused for pessimism.
well let me put it to you this way. They will not be armed with feathers and pepper spray. There is a massive difference between military hardware in trained hands and a bunch of yahoos that have fired a few rounds in the air to scare the locals.
 
Jan 9, 2004
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PC2. It’s my understanding the multinational forces comprised mainly of police, are there to assist the Haitian police establish law and order and are under the direction of the Haitian police. Thats what came out of the negotiations required by the Kenyan court before the Kenyan government could sign the deployment deal with the Haitian interim government.

That’s a better sell than saying the Kenyans are leading the charge. Also an easier pill for the interim government representatives to swallow and sell to the Haitian public. The Haitian police know very well who their enemy’s are, how they operate, and probably their weak points after face to face confrontation with the gangs for the past two years. If the gang leaders ever commit to peaceful negotiations, it will probably be face to face negotiations with the Haitian police, not the Kenyans or other multinational forces.

I assume the first 200 Kenyans will be a recon group to help them and the other multinational force members figure out the lay of the land, not to enter into direct combat with the gangs as soon as their boots land on Haitian soil. That would be a recipe for disaster.

I fail to see how a police force of 1,000 outsiders is going to make a significant difference…….even combined with the current police force, that by the way, has lost control of the country.

You have 20-25 heavily armed gangs in the capital alone and over 150 gangs nationwide. This is going to take a lor more force than they realize, and even then, how long will they be necessary?

While I do not profess to have the answer to the problem, it is abundantly clear that without additional help this will not be enough to succeed.

I do hope I am wrong.


Respectfully,
Playacaribe2
 

MoJoInDR

Active member
Aug 23, 2023
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Austin, Texas
PC2. It’s my understanding the multinational forces comprised mainly of police, are there to assist the Haitian police establish law and order and are under the direction of the Haitian police. Thats what came out of the negotiations required by the Kenyan court before the Kenyan government could sign the deployment deal with the Haitian interim government.

That’s a better sell than saying the Kenyans are leading the charge. Also an easier pill for the interim government representatives to swallow and sell to the Haitian public. The Haitian police know very well who their enemy’s are, how they operate, and probably their weak points after face to face confrontation with the gangs for the past two years. If the gang leaders ever commit to peaceful negotiations, it will probably be face to face negotiations with the Haitian police, not the Kenyans or other multinational forces.

I assume the first 200 Kenyans will be a recon group to help them and the other multinational force members figure out the lay of the land, not to enter into direct combat with the gangs as soon as their boots land on Haitian soil. That would be a recipe for disaster.

This follows what the directions of UN peacekeeping forces are... Work with local entities in support of an agenda for developing a situation/environment through which clear objectives can be attained.

But I think it's important to recognize that there are different aspects of the Kenyan police... And one is a paramilitary group that is better trained and more able to deal with tougher situations than the ordinary police. Perhaps it is this group that will be arriving first.
 

MoJoInDR

Active member
Aug 23, 2023
333
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Austin, Texas
I fail to see how a police force of 1,000 outsiders is going to make a significant difference…….even combined with the current police force, that by the way, has lost control of the country.

You have 20-25 heavily armed gangs in the capital alone and over 150 gangs nationwide. This is going to take a lor more force than they realize, and even then, how long will they be necessary?

While I do not profess to have the answer to the problem, it is abundantly clear that without additional help this will not be enough to succeed.

I do hope I am wrong.


Respectfully,
Playacaribe2

I'm thinking that contact has already been made with the main gang leaders and they have been set straight on what to expect and what their response should be... And what the consequences will be if their response does not meet expectations.

These Kenyans aren't flying blind into the situation... This isn't a knee-jerk reaction to the gangs.

I read a recent interview with one of the main leaders and in his speaking there was an undertone of willingness to work through to a solution.

One of the most relevant aspects that no one has really brought up here is that of an anchoring vision... The gangs, like the rest of the Haitians, lack a clear vision of what the goal of their activities is... And not having a clear vision only causes a situation of chaos to reign... Which is what's happening.

Bringing the Kenyan force to Haiti can help with this in the short term... As it will provide (should provide... can provide) some breathing room for the whole country... More official/legal agenda boots on the ground to protect and reestablish the structure that brings in the type of democracy that is desired.

The first need is a type of time-out for all parties... Then a reset is needed, which means agreement to a single vision and the necessary goals... After which they come to the rebuilding stage.
 
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Squat

Tropical geek in Las Terrenas
Jan 1, 2002
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well let me put it to you this way. They will not be armed with feathers and pepper spray. There is a massive difference between military hardware in trained hands and a bunch of yahoos that have fired a few rounds in the air to scare the locals.
Ever heard of the Vietcongs?
 
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