Don't you just love scientific endeavors? Kind of like Ben Franklin with his kite looking for a little buzzzzzzzzzzzzz. Say what?
- Thread starter AZB
- Start date
Questions about Inverter batteries.
I must agree with Rocky
The specific battery of the new acid will not match the characteristics of your battery. I will be surprised to see those batteries recover to a functioning level.
You are exactly right however regarding sulfur build up. But a lot of the "Black stuff" you see coming out is the actual lead from the plates.
Our process of pulsing removes the sulpher from the plates and redissolves it in the electrolyte. And we do it in a matter of hours (Depending on the state of the battery of course) . and for as low as 20% of the cost of a new battery . Not to mention safer to both you and the environment. You are being exposed to lead , lead fumes and sulfuric acid. Be careful.
Ask any Mariner who is fully depended on his batteries at sea and he will tell you about pulsing to maintain and desulfate plates. It is not a new thing.
Be sure to have proper ventilation when you charge lead-acid batteries to prevent the build- up of hydrogen gas. Handle battery acid (electrolyte) V E RY carefully. This material is highly corrosive to the skin and eyes and requires full body protection. Keep the battery acid above the tops of the separators. Use only pure, distilled water when adding liquid to lead-acid batteries.
Quote from INTERSTATE Batteries :
No! Add distilled water only. When electrolyte is lost under normal use, the water evaporates while the acid remains in the battery. Adding acid will, therefore, alter the chemical composition of the electrolyte and cause the battery to fail more quickly. The only time electrolyte should be added is after accidental spillage
The specific battery of the new acid will not match the characteristics of your battery. I will be surprised to see those batteries recover to a functioning level.
You are exactly right however regarding sulfur build up. But a lot of the "Black stuff" you see coming out is the actual lead from the plates.
Our process of pulsing removes the sulpher from the plates and redissolves it in the electrolyte. And we do it in a matter of hours (Depending on the state of the battery of course) . and for as low as 20% of the cost of a new battery . Not to mention safer to both you and the environment. You are being exposed to lead , lead fumes and sulfuric acid. Be careful.
Ask any Mariner who is fully depended on his batteries at sea and he will tell you about pulsing to maintain and desulfate plates. It is not a new thing.
Be sure to have proper ventilation when you charge lead-acid batteries to prevent the build- up of hydrogen gas. Handle battery acid (electrolyte) V E RY carefully. This material is highly corrosive to the skin and eyes and requires full body protection. Keep the battery acid above the tops of the separators. Use only pure, distilled water when adding liquid to lead-acid batteries.
Quote from INTERSTATE Batteries :
No! Add distilled water only. When electrolyte is lost under normal use, the water evaporates while the acid remains in the battery. Adding acid will, therefore, alter the chemical composition of the electrolyte and cause the battery to fail more quickly. The only time electrolyte should be added is after accidental spillage
Let me answer that for AZB, if you will.
4 dead batteries worse than before the experiment.
It's like taking the rings off the pistons and hoping the engine will work better.
Not a chance in heaven.
Maybe I Just "Got Lucky",or the "Battery Fairy" Paid Me A Visit!!
But, I also have 4 batteries that I have kept "alive" for over 4 years with several doses of EDTA! The last time,about 4 or 5 months ago,they were "dead"! So I dumped out the old electrolite solution,and washed them out several times with a garden hose.Lots of "Black Water" and "gunk" came out!!! Partially filled them with new "Acid Solution",and then some distilled water with two tablespoons full of EDTA. They are doing fine up until now.
That is my experience!
CCCCC
But, I also have 4 batteries that I have kept "alive" for over 4 years with several doses of EDTA! The last time,about 4 or 5 months ago,they were "dead"! So I dumped out the old electrolite solution,and washed them out several times with a garden hose.Lots of "Black Water" and "gunk" came out!!! Partially filled them with new "Acid Solution",and then some distilled water with two tablespoons full of EDTA. They are doing fine up until now.
That is my experience!
CCCCC
Believe it or not, it would have worked even better with the old black acid.
The life expectancy of an inverter battery is ofter refered to in years, but it's not the years that make the difference.
It's the usage.
If you work your batteries hard with big loads and during long periods, without thenm having a break, they will burn out a lot faster.
I have heard of inverter batteries, using EDTA, lasting 18 years, but I bet it's was very light usage.
I would guess that you do not run fridges, pumps, washing machines, etc on your system, which is why you got so many years from them.
Is that correct?
So it seem there is hope?
AZB
Thanks CC for the encouraging words. I had abandoned my experiment and was about to chuck the batteries in the garbage. Now I guess I will go ahead with my experiment and will add solution and water to them tomorrow. I will have my final verdict later the next day. stay tune.
AZB
Seems like I have a mini success for now.
I went ahead with my ghetto Battery rejuvinating experiment. It seems it is working.
Here is my theory contrary to what others believe:
I think as well as many dominicans around me who have been doing this for years, battery acid can be changed. This means, you dump the acid out and put in the new one. Here is what I believe:
The black lead particles in the acid are doing no good to anything, they are not part of acid compound and certianly do not contribute to anything in the charging process. It seem these particles have fallen off from the lead plates and simply settle down on the floor because of their weight. They just sit there because if the were floating around they will make a short among the plates which are seperated by insulation. In any case I think these burnt out black particles are not really conductive anymore or they would certainly disturbed the charging / discharging process. So in my opinion, they have to be cleaned and taken out with repeated water wash.
Now I read somewhere in this thread that acid is not vaporized but only the water portion of the solution. This also doesn't make any sense to me. The water blurps, spurts out when the battery is shorting out inside the cell and thus get hot; this is when the water burps inside the battery and eventually spills out through the vent holes. I have had batteries which had gone almost dry and I had to add like 4 cups of water to each cell inside. So you are telling me that the acid is not lost inside? I beg to differ. If you think only the water is spilling out from the battery then I would be willing to give you 50 dollars for just licking that water with your tongue that is coming out of the battery. This is acid which is being spilled also and if you keep filling it with water then the acid balance is changed.
Is everyone with me so far?
Ok, here is my ghetto technique:
I dumped the acid out and washed the inside of each 3 cell in a battery with a water hose. Then you turn the battery upside down and dump it all out.
I used bare hands like dominicans but kept my eyes protected with glasses. This is a very hard work as each battery seem to weigh like 50 pounds. Make sure you don't drop the battery on your own foot. It took like 5 rinses cycles on each battery before I gave up. The black water never seem to stop.
Then I disolved one huge table spoon of EDTA in tap water and poured it in each hole of the battery. I filled the rest with water to top it off. Shook it well and then left the batteries out for 3 days. In the 3 days I would imagine the EDTA ate away all the sulfur stuck to the plates that was causing damage to my battery's performance. After 3 days, I dumped the water out and cleaned the batteries with tap water again, like around 3 cycles each, fill up and shake the battry and dump the liquid out.
This broke my ass this time because its not easy lifting and turning the batteries. If you have back problem, hire a poor dominican or a haitian to do the work for a few hundred pesos.
Now I turned them over and left them there to dry up. All the tap water came out and batteries were left dry under the sun.
Now I poured 9 oz of battery solution in each cell (one 9 oz plastic cup) and then filled the rest of the cell hole with water from 5 gallon bottle water. I shook it all up and then connected the cables with vaseline on the connectors to prevent oxidation.
The batteries are charging since yesterday beause they were all dead and seem to be holding charge well. They are not getting hot anymore like they used to and not spurting out water like they did before. Seems like normal new battery function. I simulated a 5 minute black out and all seemed to be working fine. I would have to test them in a real long black out to give full report. So far, it seems sucessfull.
Wish me good luck.
AZB
I went ahead with my ghetto Battery rejuvinating experiment. It seems it is working.
Here is my theory contrary to what others believe:
I think as well as many dominicans around me who have been doing this for years, battery acid can be changed. This means, you dump the acid out and put in the new one. Here is what I believe:
The black lead particles in the acid are doing no good to anything, they are not part of acid compound and certianly do not contribute to anything in the charging process. It seem these particles have fallen off from the lead plates and simply settle down on the floor because of their weight. They just sit there because if the were floating around they will make a short among the plates which are seperated by insulation. In any case I think these burnt out black particles are not really conductive anymore or they would certainly disturbed the charging / discharging process. So in my opinion, they have to be cleaned and taken out with repeated water wash.
Now I read somewhere in this thread that acid is not vaporized but only the water portion of the solution. This also doesn't make any sense to me. The water blurps, spurts out when the battery is shorting out inside the cell and thus get hot; this is when the water burps inside the battery and eventually spills out through the vent holes. I have had batteries which had gone almost dry and I had to add like 4 cups of water to each cell inside. So you are telling me that the acid is not lost inside? I beg to differ. If you think only the water is spilling out from the battery then I would be willing to give you 50 dollars for just licking that water with your tongue that is coming out of the battery. This is acid which is being spilled also and if you keep filling it with water then the acid balance is changed.
Is everyone with me so far?
Ok, here is my ghetto technique:
I dumped the acid out and washed the inside of each 3 cell in a battery with a water hose. Then you turn the battery upside down and dump it all out.
I used bare hands like dominicans but kept my eyes protected with glasses. This is a very hard work as each battery seem to weigh like 50 pounds. Make sure you don't drop the battery on your own foot. It took like 5 rinses cycles on each battery before I gave up. The black water never seem to stop.
Then I disolved one huge table spoon of EDTA in tap water and poured it in each hole of the battery. I filled the rest with water to top it off. Shook it well and then left the batteries out for 3 days. In the 3 days I would imagine the EDTA ate away all the sulfur stuck to the plates that was causing damage to my battery's performance. After 3 days, I dumped the water out and cleaned the batteries with tap water again, like around 3 cycles each, fill up and shake the battry and dump the liquid out.
This broke my ass this time because its not easy lifting and turning the batteries. If you have back problem, hire a poor dominican or a haitian to do the work for a few hundred pesos.
Now I turned them over and left them there to dry up. All the tap water came out and batteries were left dry under the sun.
Now I poured 9 oz of battery solution in each cell (one 9 oz plastic cup) and then filled the rest of the cell hole with water from 5 gallon bottle water. I shook it all up and then connected the cables with vaseline on the connectors to prevent oxidation.
The batteries are charging since yesterday beause they were all dead and seem to be holding charge well. They are not getting hot anymore like they used to and not spurting out water like they did before. Seems like normal new battery function. I simulated a 5 minute black out and all seemed to be working fine. I would have to test them in a real long black out to give full report. So far, it seems sucessfull.
Wish me good luck.
AZB
I'm hoping for a long blackout in AZB's area 
Ours are now approaching 4 years and it is either replace the whole lot, or follow the AZB method.
Ours are now approaching 4 years and it is either replace the whole lot, or follow the AZB method.
I know I know!
AZB - I had the same problem as you did and heaven knows I did not want to have to go out and buy my new "red" batteries again - other batteries maybe I would cough it up.. but with Trojans I want to get the most out of them that I could.
Baterias Popo...
Centro de Baterias PoPo
Av. Las Carreras esq. Sabana Larga
Santiago
809-971-3730
RD$190 each battery and the got out all the gunk redid the acid ratio and they are like BRAND NEW.
The 4 used to hold a charge for 7-8 hours - in the last month they were only lasting me 2 hours - now after the revamping they lasted the whole 6.5 hours we were out of power today....
AZB - I had the same problem as you did and heaven knows I did not want to have to go out and buy my new "red" batteries again - other batteries maybe I would cough it up.. but with Trojans I want to get the most out of them that I could.
Baterias Popo...
Centro de Baterias PoPo
Av. Las Carreras esq. Sabana Larga
Santiago
809-971-3730
RD$190 each battery and the got out all the gunk redid the acid ratio and they are like BRAND NEW.
The 4 used to hold a charge for 7-8 hours - in the last month they were only lasting me 2 hours - now after the revamping they lasted the whole 6.5 hours we were out of power today....
i had a long black out today as well and I batteries held good for a few hours and still were charged untill the lights came back on. before my batteries wouldn't even last 45mins. the next time I will put heavy load on the inverter to see how they perform.
I think I was right in my theory. Rocky is right in his theory about not changing the acid, but I had a different situation, my acid had been spilled out completely in 2 batteries. I needed to get the sulfur and the black gunk out and replenish the acid water ratio. if my batteries begin to malfunction, I will put edta in them.
AZB
I think I was right in my theory. Rocky is right in his theory about not changing the acid, but I had a different situation, my acid had been spilled out completely in 2 batteries. I needed to get the sulfur and the black gunk out and replenish the acid water ratio. if my batteries begin to malfunction, I will put edta in them.
AZB
Update:
seems like 2 of my batteries are heating up and maybe hindering with the charging process. These 2 were the worst of the bunch. I knew they were going to be difficult. So I have taken a cup of water out from each hole and added EDTA disolved water in them.
Let see if that would make a differance.
AZB
seems like 2 of my batteries are heating up and maybe hindering with the charging process. These 2 were the worst of the bunch. I knew they were going to be difficult. So I have taken a cup of water out from each hole and added EDTA disolved water in them.
Let see if that would make a differance.
AZB
Update #2:
Remember when I mentioned I had 2 batteries with visible plate damage inside? There were fragments of plate elements shorting out plates, visible through the holes. Well it seemed like those 2 batteries were getting extremely hot and swelling up. The inverter was keep charging the batteries but the 2 batteries were only getting hot and swelling up. This is a dangerous predicament to be in as they can fry the charger circuit of my inverter or blow up at worst case scenario.
I have decided to disconnect the 2 batteries and use my inverter on the remaining 2 batteries. These 2 were the good ones, no water loss and cool to the touch.
I think I will live on these 2 batteries for now and later when they die, buy 4 new ones. So I saved 2 out of 4 batteries that are 4 yrs old.
Not bad.
AZB
P.S. is anyone reading this thread or am I only talking to myself? If no one interacts in this thread, I shall suspend the future updates.
Remember when I mentioned I had 2 batteries with visible plate damage inside? There were fragments of plate elements shorting out plates, visible through the holes. Well it seemed like those 2 batteries were getting extremely hot and swelling up. The inverter was keep charging the batteries but the 2 batteries were only getting hot and swelling up. This is a dangerous predicament to be in as they can fry the charger circuit of my inverter or blow up at worst case scenario.
I have decided to disconnect the 2 batteries and use my inverter on the remaining 2 batteries. These 2 were the good ones, no water loss and cool to the touch.
I think I will live on these 2 batteries for now and later when they die, buy 4 new ones. So I saved 2 out of 4 batteries that are 4 yrs old.
Not bad.
AZB
P.S. is anyone reading this thread or am I only talking to myself? If no one interacts in this thread, I shall suspend the future updates.
No Ben, I mean AZB, I enjoy hearing about your experiments as my batteries are only a year old this month and I wish to hear what awaits me. As I have a bank of eight I don't want to think that when the start to fail the only option to me is to purchase eight more. Being a poor person 8 batteries would set me way back.
Rick
Rick
Rick, here is what you do.
After 1 1/2 the batteries start to slow down in performance. I suggest you get a plastic cup and stir in 1 table spoon of EDTA and dissolve it, now pour it inside each battery hole. so 3 cups of each table spoon of edta dissolved and poured in the 3 holes of your battery. Now shake the batteries a bit and watch the magic work. The batteries will be brand spanking new again.
My batteries have done hard work for 4 years and believe me, I have abused them with heavy loads and super long black outs during hippo goven't days. My batteries had fought many hard battles in the last 4 yrs. I still have 2 functioning batteries out of the 4 that I initially bought. The 2 bad ones were clearly defected with plates broken down. In this case, there is little you can do to save them. You batteries are just beginning to build up sulfur on the plates, so the edta will clean it out.
Good luck.
AZB
After 1 1/2 the batteries start to slow down in performance. I suggest you get a plastic cup and stir in 1 table spoon of EDTA and dissolve it, now pour it inside each battery hole. so 3 cups of each table spoon of edta dissolved and poured in the 3 holes of your battery. Now shake the batteries a bit and watch the magic work. The batteries will be brand spanking new again.
My batteries have done hard work for 4 years and believe me, I have abused them with heavy loads and super long black outs during hippo goven't days. My batteries had fought many hard battles in the last 4 yrs. I still have 2 functioning batteries out of the 4 that I initially bought. The 2 bad ones were clearly defected with plates broken down. In this case, there is little you can do to save them. You batteries are just beginning to build up sulfur on the plates, so the edta will clean it out.
Good luck.
AZB