RD vs Colombia? How does it compare?

[Berzin]

For those chicken littles out there who love posting links to kidnappings and other crimes against foreigners, yes people get kidnapped on occasion in Colombia.

The difference, as Robert posted, is in the response by the authorities.

It is not nearly as bad as it once was, and that was a good 20 years ago. A generation has passed and the country has moved forward. Kidnapping should be the least of one's worries today in Colombia.

There are places not to stick you neck in, and people not to associate with. Ascertaining the difference is the key aspect. I cannot call this common sense as it is not as common as people think.

There is a cultural vibrancy in Colombia that has to be experienced. If someone reads this thread and comes to the conclusion that the cities in Colombia are just like NYC or Chicago, then they are missing the point.

If a person travels and puts limits on themselves in terms of what they experience, no amount of internet chatter will broaden their horizons.

I'll say this again-Colombia is making a concerted effort to improve the quality of life for it's citizens, and this will improve the quality of one's tourist experience. They aren't just talking about it, they are acting on it.

You won't have to go and pretend you are someone else from some place else. That is not necessary, and it is another clear distinction from the DR. You can hang out like any other person and blend in given the extent of your language skills. Whereas in the DR I've always felt people would try to figure out if I am Dominican or not to judge how much to overcharge me for services rendered.

Except for taxis, of course. Very easy to get the run-around in a cab anywhere you go in the world-that will never change.

 

[Robert]

As I said.... When was the last time an American tourist was kidnapped in Colombia?

jrhartley, those people in the news story were residents. Don't forget, kidnappings also happen right on your door step

As already pointed out, the difference is the response and how the locally authorities handle it.

 

[RacerX]

Colombia rebels kidnap five oil contractors (Poorbuthappy in Colombia!)

I dont think its Chicken Little-y to post links about kidnappings. I think its best to be prepared if you were to visit. Technically, in Colombia, the visitor should know that the country is still engaged in a civil war, the same as if you were to go to Korea. And my link is from 3 months ago.

The thing about the police response is peculiar. Why does one respond better than the other? When they were both trained by the US(in that filthy School of the Americas-even using that Vietnam Era olive drab o jungle print uniform)? It has to be nationalistic pride, no? They have PN, EN, Procuradora Nacional y Departamental there and I dont know what they are getting paid, but would they take or beg for a bribe?

Cultural vibrancy is good. There WAS a time when American cities were individualistic. It wasnt always Target, Starbucks and Old Navy like it is now. New Orleans, Chicago, KC were different places with different personalities(which was reflected in the music). I wouldnt have the time to go to all the large cities in Colombia anyway, but its usually the same; a. capital city-center of all business and government, b. second city, c. large city-which offers tourism, etc.

I can clearly see a difference between Dominicans and Colombians moods and joie de vivre solely based on the images on CDN or RNN and those on CaracolTV. I m coming back to the language. They Colombians use it with finesse and pride, which to me signifies that they are more literate. Dominicans I dont get it, its like a living Reggaeton record. And I m not aware of the Colombian pasttimes in athletics(although I m sure its some soccer type event), its like Dominicans dont do anything. Nothing. I dont know if they even want to do anything either. Its like sometimes I feel they live in suspended animation only awakening to ask you for money. I met some Colombian women like 10 years ago from all over the country and they all seemed to be really articulate and had ideas(on things). They could support a conversation as opposed to many Dominicans I meet. BUT, when they came to NY they always had to visit someone Upstate in prison who was involved in the Game to show moral support.

My friend told me in 1999 when he came here to RD for the 1st time and we were in Jarabacoa, he said "I m trying to be hospitable and talk to these people. In America we start a conversation asking people "what do you do?", but no one hear does anything, so its hard to talk it up."


I had also wanted to pose a question if one could produce a telenovela either set or produced in Santo Domingo. But I dont know. I dont know Santo Domingo that well, but generally speaking(literally) you have to work the tongue without an accent to export the program to the network(s). Plus many folk are so accustomed to not doing anything, I dont even know how you d fish for talent without drawing all your leads from NY,NJ, Fl or NC. I would just see a casting call full of people who were self-righteous about getting the role with no talent and expected to be paid just for showing up...but not on time nor with a headshot and CV.

 

[AZB]

Let me tell you of an experience:
just like many tourist have found sosua and boca chica in DR, they find the same types of place where-ever they go, colombia included. I was sitting in a local small restaurant in bogota having my favorite empanadas and other fried items. All the people around me seemed like they had come from office type jobs, well dressed in suits and ties and accompanied by women who were equally well dressed. Then all of the sudden a loud mouth american in his 50's turned up with 2 tattooed putas (hookers). The whole restaurant stopped for a second and everyone was staring at them. The gringo had no clue, he seemed a bit tipsy but he was right at home being in the arms of 2 horrible looking vulgar women. He sat down and ordered food in loud voice while the girls giggled with excitement. What do you think the chances are of something horrible happening to this man in the near future? I say he was playing with fire.
I have taken bus all over colombia, even a 24 hrs ride each way. I have traveled at night and day. I have been in small towns and villages. I have never seen any farc or saw any drugs anywhere. I felt safe at all times. I am sure if I mix with the questionable elements of colombian society, I can sure expect to get into some sort of trouble along the way.
AZB

 

[AZB]

racerX, the farc or rebels are not looking to kidnap some no-name american tourist from brooklyn. They kidnap people who are worth something. The oil workers or executives are worth money and so do the red cross workers and other people who are associated with NGO etc. They might kill a tree hugger who was lost in some jungle and came across some poppy field etc. Talking about being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Like robert says, use common sense and you will be fine. Like I said, i went everywhere and stayed in small towns far far away from big cities. I just didn't know what else to do to attract farc's attention to kidnap me. hahahaha. they are not looking for an average tom in colombia who is out to get some action.
AZB

 

[rubio_higuey]

I had also wanted to pose a question if one could produce a telenovela either set or produced in Santo Domingo. But I dont know. I dont know Santo Domingo that well, but generally speaking(literally) you have to work the tongue without an accent to export the program to the network(s). Plus many folk are so accustomed to not doing anything, I dont even know how you d fish for talent without drawing all your leads from NY,NJ, Fl or NC. I would just see a casting call full of people who were self-righteous about getting the role with no talent and expected to be paid just for showing up...but not on time nor with a headshot and CV.

Don't even think about that. Colombia is the second largest LatAm producer of TV content (and telenovelas) behind Mexico. In Colombia, RCN, Caracol and U.S. Telemundo all produce content.

There was an attempt to produce a novela with story set on location and filmed in the DR (Santo Domingo), a joint venture between Antena Latina and Venevision. The novela was .... a... failure (in terms of audience, ratings, share, and ad money it brought in). So don't even venture there...

 

[RacerX]

Don't even think about that. Colombia is the second largest LatAm producer of TV content (and telenovelas) behind Mexico. In Colombia, RCN, Caracol and U.S. Telemundo all produce content.

There was an attempt to produce a novela with story set on location and filmed in the DR (Santo Domingo), a joint venture between Antena Latina and Venevision. The novela was .... a... failure (in terms of audience, ratings, share, and ad money it brought in). So don't even venture there...

Not necessarily so. NBC wants to produce their own shows. Many like Perro Amor are produced right in Miami, and a while ago they had LA production of older American sit-coms/action series, for example Los Angeles de Charlie. And the reason that they use the South American locations instead of US is because the production costs are so low in Bogota, Rio and Mexico City. I find the Mexican ones wrought with excessive over acting. The South American ones(Colombia y Brasil, excluding Venezuela. No offense to Venevision but haha! please!) seem to have almost, if not, realistic storylines and method actors with better writers. They still havent progressed in stunt blocking in action sequences like American TV, but it also isnt like a 1940 Western either(think James Bond in the final fight scene in Octupussy).

I think you could produce quality Spanish language drama outside of Mexico or Colombia. The most popular programs, prime time, these days is Dr. House, El serie de Ley y Orden, Bones and those CSI programs. Many dubbed in Espanol others with subtitulos. Sit-coms I m not sure. I watch some of the variety shows from various locations and I dont get the humor. The only thing that is universal are the hidden camera shows and funniest home videos clips.

NBC tried it several times in the past when they 1st bought Telemundo. There was a mini-series Kingpin about a Mexican crime family. It was recorded in 2 languages. They tried it with Heroes in the 1st season. It sounded like a good idea. Its very hard to introduce multi-cultural characters on general Spanish language TV without them being a stereotype or caricature. That "Ugly" series proves my point.

I think you could set a show here but probably have to move production to Miami, just so the network could keep a close eye on development, costs, and continuity. If you could lock in the ad space, it would be cost effective to film here...if you could find the talent. SD and Miami are almost identical in appearance, except one being cleaner than the other. They could use 2nd unit for exterior roving shots. I dont know about Univision, but you can pitch a concept to Telemundo. They spend $100M on their own programming, hoping to syndicate these shows in other markets at the end of the run. And La Mega TV at some point will have to expand their programming to consist of more than live broadcasts of radio shows and gossip magazines.

 

[tjmurray]

The difference of education has come up several times in this thread between the Dominican Republic and Colombia. I've also seen this distinction in many other threads when comparing other country's to the DR.

Has anyone ever visited a country where they felt the general population was less educated than the Dominican Republic's?

This is a question and not a comment. I'm not insinuating, just curious.

This may be off topic so feel free delete if necessary.

 

[RacerX]

The difference of education has come up several times in this thread between the Dominican Republic and Colombia. I've also seen this distinction in many other threads when comparing other country's to the DR.

Has anyone ever visited a country where they felt the general population was less educated than the Dominican Republic's?

This is a question and not a comment. I'm not insinuating, just curious.

This may be off topic so feel free delete if necessary.

I suppose Haiti. And I think people dont have a grievance with the education but the accepted ignorance, maybe? People in DR, as I see them are comfortable being out of the loop with respect to information and knowledge. It doesnt matter if you dont finish high school, ever. It doesnt matter if you speak in the equivalent of Broken English(broken spanish? Tigre-tongue?). Most of us take pride in the things we know and the things we know how to do. You dont get that here.

I dont know man, I think education was supposed to open doors to your mind, you know? Give you insight to the world at large, even if you didnt want to see it for yourself. My comments were about the language because if you were taught your tongue, you d have some respect for it. Also knowing that people will judge you based on the language you use and how you use it. When I had this delivery boy come through on his moto with 2lbs of chicken. I asked him what the bill was and I didnt understand a word he said. He mumbled the whole damn thing. I gave him some scratch paper and said write it. My spanish may be different than his but I told him, if you dont get the sht out your mouth and speak better than that you are going to riding that scooter your entire life. People who cant write right by using all the wrong letters or leaving them out and have no concern for the errors they make. I met a women in Porto Plata and ah man, I had to wish her well because I couldnt deal with it. How do you misspell 4 words in a 5 word sentence? I had to ask her to keep repeating herself(como? que?) because your letters dont form words I want to read. I m dying to meet the person who will write me and say "Llo boy a supermecado. Bolbere mediora".

 

[Islander777]

Yea, Ok, so uhm we re like saying Bogota, Medellin, Cartagena, Cali, Pereira are as developed as many American cities, NY, Chicago, Denver, Saint Louis, Tampa. Great! So what would you consider them? A 3rd World or 2nd World country?

I think there is more wealth in Colombia, but the people may not be that interested in showing off like in DR.
I do respect the appreciation of the language they have. I m tired of people here who slang it up every chance they get and in the end, wind up being almost illiterate.

What about the kidnappings? My dad said if I were to go there make an effort to pass as a Brasilian or a Panamanian, because Americans are known to be kidnapped for ransom.

And the line of control? What of it? Bogota is in FARC territory(which is defined as the entire southern half of the country). And the ELN?

And lastly the NINE American military bases in Colombia. Whats the deal there?

Kidnapping in Colombia has dropped from a high of about 3,500 cases in 2001 to less than 200 in 2009. Its really not that dangerous now, although one can always find trouble if you are looking for it or foolish ...

Kidnappings in Colombia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

When I first went to Cartagena a couple of European tourists were murdered in a botched purse snatching (the victims fought and were shot). It made top headlines in the newspapers, the government posted a US$20,000 reward and the culprits were quickly arrested.

The common wisdom that kidnapping is a serious risk in Colombia no longer applies.

 

[AZB]

racerX, vince or anyone who wants to visit medellin. I can give number to call a reliable taxi driver who will be your guide and also get you a fancy apartment in poblado area in a high-rise building for $50 US/night with a swimming pool on first floor. The apartment has cable TV, dsl internet (wireless) and a magnificent view of the city from 15th floor balcony.
AZB

 

[bob saunders]

The difference of education has come up several times in this thread between the Dominican Republic and Colombia. I've also seen this distinction in many other threads when comparing other country's to the DR.

Has anyone ever visited a country where they felt the general population was less educated than the Dominican Republic's?

This is a question and not a comment. I'm not insinuating, just curious.

This may be off topic so feel free delete if necessary.

I visited the Ozarks many years ago, but in reality NO, but that is not speaking to the intelligence level of Dominicans.

 

[Acira]

Ok, I thaught this would could be an interesting thread to read but so far, all I have read is that a Columbian is more educated then an average Dominican, that the country is "lovely" and that a Columbian speaks "better" Spanish then a Dominican (which I honestly find quite b**l**** because slang language you will find in any country even 1st world countries and sometimes they are just called "dialects" differing sometimes from village to village)

But what about economy? How is the economy doing in Columbia, what kind of companies can you find in Columbia, is there high technology economy?
Can one make a descent living there, are there job opportunities for non residents?
What about real estate prices compared to the DR and I am not talking about renting a studio for a two week holiday.
What's the real costs of living there : food, water, electricity, taxes etc...

What about residency? How does that work?

 

[bob saunders]

Ok, I thaught this would could be an interesting thread to read but so far, all I have read is that a Columbian is more educated then an average Dominican, that the country is "lovely" and that a Columbian speaks "better" Spanish then a Dominican (which I honestly find quite b**l**** because slang language you will find in any country even 1st world countries and sometimes they are just called "dialects" differing sometimes from village to village)

But what about economy? How is the economy doing in Columbia, what kind of companies can you find in Columbia, is there high technology economy?
Can one make a descent living there, are there job opportunities for non residents?
What about real estate prices compared to the DR and I am not talking about renting a studio for a two week holiday.
What's the real costs of living there : food, water, electricity, taxes etc...

What about residency? How does that work?

My wife was married to a Colombian Military (Attache) and lived from 1987-90 in Barranquilla. Her memory of the marriage isn't of a good marriage but she felt safe, accepted, and found Colombians to be open and warm people after they got to know you. She said other than a few words the language is the same. I currently work with two Colombian Engineers who are obviously educated, and they are both the type of people I would associate with away from work.
Retiring in Cartagena, Colombia
http://www.colombiainfo.com/index.php/visas
http://www.cartagenarealty.com/mapa/fincasanfelipe.html

 

[RacerX]

I dont think it bulll****. You try having a conversation with people who use cannot use the language most productively. If you were in need of a lawyer would you pick the one who sounds like he fell out of a rap video? If you were in need of surgery and your doctor was giving you the pre-operative consult, would it instill trust in you if he sounded like some gangster about to rob a bank? Would you invest your hard earned money with someone with women who sounded like a bunch of hens clucking in the kitchen? It sound facetious but its a serious question. Hire one of these guys as a lawyer and find out he cannot write.

I think its important to know the education of the populace. It could make your transition easier and more pleasant. You come to a place and everyone expects you to save them from poverty and you will not be happy. But if you were a competent person in what you did where you came from, there is a chance, if you can manage the language, that you could insert yourself into the same life in your new place. If I were to move to Marseilles I would want to do the same things(or better) I could/did/wanted to do when I lived in Miami. Its only fair, right? You dont leave Berlin to become a junkie in Tel Aviv.

I m pretty sure I read AZB say if he could make the same money there he is making here he d be gone in a minute, so I could make a prima fascie conclusion that there may not be that many decent job opportunities for residents or non-residents. Considering much of the narco-state effects.
I went to the Colombian Consulate in Midtown Manhattan 10 years ago and they were very receptive to foreign investment. I believe Pastrana was the President then. I showed up to get some literature and they were bending over backwards to tell me about Colombia. Chief exports: coffee, amber, oil, cotton, raspberries(I think), grapes. I had a friend in Barranquilla who worked for the local power utility. In 1998, she had her own condo, a small car and a few luxuries. Her salary was about $18K US. Its poor in America but in Colombia she was doing real good. I think the economy is a bit stable, I think the exchange rate back then was 1800pesos:$1. Its not much higher than that now. They have about 5 cities over a million people so I d hope they are quite sophisticated with technology. Of course, that doesnt mean much, Mexico has a few large cities and they are all a mess.
Water,electricity, taxes, I dont know. Residency? Probably have to go to their website.

And I m sure we are not getting the LIVING information because everyone here who says they have gone went as a tourist.
I dont think Medellin would be my interest. Probably Barranquilla and Cali.

I hadnt anticipated moving there I just wanted a heads up on whether it was worth a visit. The country is too big to see it all and take it in. Its like a eeny, meeny miney moe decision. "I AM going and HERE is where I am going". You ll have to pick one place and give it a shot.

 

[Robert]

Ok, I thaught this would could be an interesting thread to read but so far, all I have read is that a Columbian is more educated then an average Dominican, that the country is "lovely" and that a Columbian speaks "better" Spanish then a Dominican (which I honestly find quite b**l**** because slang language you will find in any country even 1st world countries and sometimes they are just called "dialects" differing sometimes from village to village)

But what about economy? How is the economy doing in Columbia, what kind of companies can you find in Columbia, is there high technology economy?
Can one make a descent living there, are there job opportunities for non residents?
What about real estate prices compared to the DR and I am not talking about renting a studio for a two week holiday.
What's the real costs of living there : food, water, electricity, taxes etc...

What about residency? How does that work?

I find that Colombians have a much broader range of vocabulary and their Spanish much easier on the ear. I'm sure it's different in the campo and it's obviously different talking to teenagers using slang etc.

Cost of living: Cheaper
Economy: Growing
Opportunities: What do you have to offer?

Real estate prices are lower than the DR. But I feel inflated in cities like Cartagena that attract tourists and foreigners.

Lots of high tech companies and outsourcing companies in Colombia.

Electricity is stable, phone infrastructure is very modern.
Plenty of dept stores, super markets, brand stores etc.

The rules on residency and working are much stricter than the DR.
1st world rules and they stick to them!

What stands out for me is how they have managed tourism, despite the counties stigma. They have seen record growth in Latin America, it's very well managed and they have done a fantastic job of branding.

You need to go and feel Colombia to get and idea of what it's about and what it has to offer. It's no different than the DR, your reality will be very different to words on a message board.

 

[greydread]

But what about economy? How is the economy doing in Columbia, what kind of companies can you find in Columbia, is there high technology economy?
Can one make a descent living there, are there job opportunities for non residents?
What about real estate prices compared to the DR and I am not talking about renting a studio for a two week holiday.
What's the real costs of living there : food, water, electricity, taxes etc...

What about residency? How does that work?

Excellent questions.

Short answer...The two coutries look much different on the surface. Colombia has more than 20x the land mass of the DR and five times the population. Economically they are almost identical (adjusting for scale).

GDP: Colo= $401B, DR= $80.5B

PPP: Col= $9200, DR= $8300

% GDP
by sector AG: Col= 18%, DR= 10.5%
Ind: Col= 19%, DR= 21%
Svc: Col= 63%, DR=68%

Unemployment: Col= 12%, DR=15%

% Households
Below Poverty: Col= 46.8%, DR=42.2%

Income Disparity
Lowest 10%: Col= 0.8%, DR=1.5%
Highest 10%: Col=45%, DR=38.7%

Overall it appears that Colombia has a larger "middle class" but that they don't earn as much of a percentage of the overall GDP as the Dominican "middle class". Colombia's rich are richer and their poor are poorer. They also seem to invest more heavily, in and out of the country.

Public Debt: Col= 46%, DR=41.5%

Central Bank
Prime Lending Rate: Col= 9.57%, DR=19.97%

External Debt: Col= $47.3B, DR= $11.85B

Stock of Direct
Foreign Investment: Col= $76B, DR= $18B
(at home)

Stock of Direct
Foreign Investment: Col= 15.7B, DR= N/A (too low to count)
(abroad)





...and for whoever said that Colombians don't party much...Cali is the Salsa Capital of the World:

YouTube - Colombian Style Salsa at a Club in Cali, Colombia-

 

[AZB]

This thread has inspired me to starting making my next trip plans to colombia. I may take AA to miami and then to medellin, then take a bus from medellin to a small town near armenia called salento. Spend 2 days there in country-side and then take the bus to bogota. after 2-3 days there, delta to atlanta an then to SDQ.

AZB

 

[RacerX]

I priced a ticket to BAQ and it was $571 round trip on bing.com

 

[corsair74]

I dont think Medellin would be my interest. Probably Barranquilla and Cali.

I hadnt anticipated moving there I just wanted a heads up on whether it was worth a visit. The country is too big to see it all and take it in. Its like a eeny, meeny miney moe decision. "I AM going and HERE is where I am going". You ll have to pick one place and give it a shot.

I don't think that Cali is a very good choice for a first time visit to Colombia. And I'm not basing this opinion on any published travel advisories. Every local I talked to while in country, some of whom were from Cali themselves, told me not to go to Cali unless I knew someone there that could look out for me and watch my back. And these were folks who didn't have anything to gain from lying about it. I tend to listen to that type of advice.

I do think that Cali, Colombia is worth visiting, however. But I plan on getting a bit more experience in country, and make quite a few more local contacts, before I make that step.


Vince.