Reason's of why education in D.R. is not progressing!

[laurapasinifan]

while I am not an authority, my years of living life give me credit for much.I think Nalowhs is very close to have as best a reason as any I have heard.

"Daddy1, here is a quick lesson on Dominicana 101.

Most Dominicans CANNOT imagine a successful Dominican Republic.

They can't imagine any of the problems being solved, they can't imagine anything other than life is better elsewhere and if you want a better life, all you have to do is migrate!

It's not a question of people not seeing education as a priority, but rather a much bigger picture based on pessimism that has been ingrained in the Dominican psyche for over 100 years!

The interesting thing is that it appears, that many Dominicans continue to shun education even when its readily available to them, as we have seen with Dominican emigrants in the US.

But, then again, this could be a manifestation of that negative pessimism many Dominicans have of problems being unsolvable, thus if they are born in poverty, many believe nothing will take them out of it, thus why study?[/SIZE]

I would also speak to Mirador and comment on the elitist scenario he painted to another solution. The eliteist already have their cake and are eating it too. They have private schools they dont need an elitists public school system.

Most will agree you dont have to have the solution or any solution for that matter , to be able to say something is broken. For some things the solution is so complicated as to be practically impossible to comprehend much less obtain. So for now we will hear about little mini success stories at the exspense of a multitude of children that will become the blood and life of this country in 15 years.

bob

 

[easygoin]

Just something that happened

Last week when I was in Santiago at a school putting swings up in the morning... his nine-year-old boy named Francisco came up introduced himself and started helping me. I don't speak Spanish or nor does he English... but we worked as a team. He knew when to get what parts and what tools when they were needed at the proper time, and I truly believe he enjoyed helping me that morning.

Then the teacher came and told him it's time to go and he just looked at me sad and left. I thought to myself it's lunchtime he'll be back after. When two o'clock came I asked where is Francisco.... the teacher says he went home, he only comes in the morning. That kind of got me sad right then and there but moments later more ****ed off than anything.... especially after the teacher told me he is very intelligent but only comes a half a day.

Going only a half-day is not right for any child. There should be a law for full-day education. I know when I go back there no matter what I have to do being.... meeting his family, paying for uniforms, lunch, bus,...... next year Francisco is going for a full day.

This youngster is smart, great personality, ambitious from what I've seen so why not help him have something to look up to for the future.

 

[laurapasinifan]

I am not sure but I think there are two session of the school day. When the school is full with students in the morning its one session. Then they leave and another waves come in for the afternoon. My gf brother now goes to school about 5 pm to 9pm!.. and thats his regular scholl, not extra education or anything like that.

I like the fact the all have to dress the same.

bob

 

[mondongo]

Lesley D, of all the posts in all these threads yearning for better education in the DR, this is by far the most cogent and practicable. For those who really want to make a difference in the DR, do as Lesley suggests.....

Forget about the government. Don't fall into the trap of raising new taxes "earmarked for education". One student at a time, as the last paragraph suggests.

The education system in the DR is extremely deficient.

The public school system being the best example and some of the chronic problems include:

+ lack of quality teachers and lack of motivation by the teachers
+ very low remuneration
+ poor facilities
+ outdated curriculum
+ lack of supplies

all resulting in a very high drop out rate.

Everything you say is true but at the end of the day Dominican politicians are like empty barrels that just make loud noise and nothing else. The education problem like so many others could have been improved or rectified if governments past and present had a genuine interest in doing so. I agree as well, that it is two-fold meaning Dominicans have to demand it and the government has to supply it. However, I will lean on the supply side because successful countries breed successful people and if the Dominican Republic has a chance at advancing in decades to come the education problem in my opinion is the biggest gap that needs improvement.

There is no excuse for the state of education in the DR. The neglect over decades has taken the crisis to another level. Other countries in Latin America comparatively speaking to the DR are struggling economically etc. but the school system has not reached the abyss of disgrace that exists currently in the DR. In any society there will always be a segment of the population that's deemed as 'uneducated', or not representative of the standard however, in the DR the average person in my opinion falls in this category and at a very young age. Many individuals have below average reading and writing skills, have not completed their education (or even finished high school) all of which means their future is extremely limited and another generation will fall short which in turn will impact the future of the country.

I honestly think the best solution right now is to help children on an individual basis or in small groups. Children who are willing and eager to learn but have obstacles in their way (no fault of their own) is the best way to make an impact at present. The government?s game plan regarding education is patent-they don?t care. Therefore the best contribution anyone can make right now in my opinion is helping one on one. There is no time to wait for the government to act. It?s just not in their best interest.


LDG.

 

[Rick Snyder]

For those of you that aren't aware of the school days here in the DR and there seems to be a few.

Because of the large number of children and the small number of schools the public school system must run a morning session from 8:00 am till 12:00 noon and an afternoon session from 2:00pm till 5:30 pm. I will give you the schedule of my 7 year old son that is in the third grade and goes to afternoon class;

Mon - Spanish, Social Science, Recess, Physical Education
Tue - Math, Physical Education, Natural Science, Recess
Wed - Math, Spanish, Recess, Math
Thur - Spanish, Religion, Recess, Natural Science
Fri - Religion, Civics, Social Science, Recess, Math

Recess is for half an hour each day. Each child is given a roll and a carton of milk every day and allowed 15 minutes to eat and the time they receive this changes from day to day. There is no separation of church and state and Religion is a mandatory class. Each class is normally 45 minutes long.

With the above schedule you will notice that my son receives weekly;

2 hr and 15 min of Spanish Language
1 hr and 30 min of Social Science
3 hours of math
1 hr and 30 min of Natural Science
1 hr and 30 min of Religion
45 minutes of Civics
1 hr and 30 min of Physical Education
2 hr and 30 min of Recess

This is done with 32 other students in his classes. With the aforementioned schedule you tell me how well these children are being prepared for the future.

Is the government worried about the lack of hours that the children are receiving? Check it out and notice it is worse then I have shown above;



Rick

 

[easygoin]

That is said for the future

For those of you that aren't aware of the school days here in the DR and there seems to be a few.

Because of the large number of children and the small number of schools the public school system must run a morning session from 8:00 am till 12:00 noon and an afternoon session from 2:00pm till 5:30 pm. I will give you the schedule of my 7 year old son that is in the third grade and goes to afternoon class;

Mon - Spanish, Social Science, Recess, Physical Education
Tue - Math, Physical Education, Natural Science, Recess
Wed - Math, Spanish, Recess, Math
Thur - Spanish, Religion, Recess, Natural Science
Fri - Religion, Civics, Social Science, Recess, Math

Recess is for half an hour each day. Each child is given a roll and a carton of milk every day and allowed 15 minutes to eat and the time they receive this changes from day to day. There is no separation of church and state and Religion is a mandatory class. Each class is normally 45 minutes long.

With the above schedule you will notice that my son receives weekly;

2 hr and 15 min of Spanish Language
1 hr and 30 min of Social Science
3 hours of math
1 hr and 30 min of Natural Science
1 hr and 30 min of Religion
45 minutes of Civics
1 hr and 30 min of Physical Education
2 hr and 30 min of Recess

This is done with 32 other students in his classes. With the aforementioned schedule you tell me how well these children are being prepared for the future.

Is the government worried about the lack of hours that the children are receiving? Check it out and notice it is worse then I have shown above;

http://www.listindiario.com.do/antes/enero05/250105/cuerpos/republica/rep8.htm

Rick

I really didn't know it was because of overcrowding and lack of schools.

I've seen many buses and children getting dropped off... but really never realized that there was more children than schools that could provide for them. Meaning I hear some parents choose not to work and not provide uniforms for their children.

So when you do go to college and they put this big work load on you.... the average individual is due to fail or drop out... is that true?

 

[Rick Snyder]

My knowledge is that a lot of parents would work if there were jobs, at least the women would. It isn't a case of not providing uniforms but of not being able to provide uniforms because of the poverty here.

The uniform issue is very interesting in that I have found no law or regulation that states that children must have a uniform to go to school. If such a law were implemented then parents would have a justified reason to demand that the government supply said mandatory uniforms. There are many children that do in fact go to school without wearing a uniform and I've never heard of a child being refused education due to not having a uniform.

As to the colleges here in the DR. They too have a high drop out rate just like most countries throughout the world. It is my opinion that the poor education that the children are subjected to plus bad study habits in the schools below the college level play a detrimental role in preparing the children for college or life in general for that matter.

It too must be understood that the DR does not administer a standardized proficiency test to the children in elementary or high school. I honestly don't know if the children are required to take a test, such as the American SAT, before being admitted to a Dominican college. Someone else on this board would have to answer that question for me as I would like to know.

So where does the problem lie? Throughout the DR education system but it start in the pre-school and continues on.

Rick

 

[NALs]

I really didn't know it was because of overcrowding and lack of schools.

Well,

In reality, that is the reason being used to continue to justify the half day schedules.

Originally, this system of half day schedules was developed to allow the children of farmers to study for half of the day and still be able to help in the family farm, thus not loosing an education due to mandatory life saving work to be done.

-NAL

 

[Frank the Tank]

I would think that the big problem is the atttitude of the dominican people to education. It seems to me to be indifferent at best. You can go ahead and build fancy new schools, buy new text books, etc, but what good is that doing if no one actually goes to school? Or if the parents don't care or insure the children actually study and do homework? The same problems are here in the inner city schools in the US. Oh kids aren't learning? Spend gobs and gobs of money. well it's all wasted if no one shows up or studies or does homework and attempts to actually learn. The importance of education must be learned and ingrained into the culture, then things will get better. Mi dos centavos.

 

[daddy1]

I would think that the big problem is the atttitude of the dominican people to education. It seems to me to be indifferent at best. You can go ahead and build fancy new schools, buy new text books, etc, but what good is that doing if no one actually goes to school? Or if the parents don't care or insure the children actually study and do homework? The same problems are here in the inner city schools in the US. Oh kids aren't learning? Spend gobs and gobs of money. well it's all wasted if no one shows up or studies or does homework and attempts to actually learn. The importance of education must be learned and ingrained into the culture, then things will get better. Mi dos centavos.

I Agree frank...but you see that is where sports and other leisure activities come into play, the short term goal is to have a diversity of different activities, drama clubs, school bands, choirs, dance teams, Athlete's coaches etc... the long term is to seek international and national help for scholarships...you know the more things you can offer a major university the better....I have befriended alot of U.S. college coaches who say that if D.R.'s school system implemented a more serious bilingual system, and the schools had and organized athletic program and issued standardized testing...they would issue baseball scholarships to Dominican young men all over the island, these college coaches have told me with all honesty, everyone knows Dominicans have great talent, and the one's that speak a little english, just enough to get by here in the U.S. have somewhat benefited, Perez, to Castillo, lopez to Garcia.

I don't know about other countries, but the only way in my honest opinion of getting D.R. to take advantage of recieveing American University scholarships
is to, make all public schools bilingual, build up and create massive athletic, and social programs, from the traditional to the none traditional, this will develop interest in the recruitment process for major American and Canadian Universities, the plan would be not to be imperial or anything, but to give kids and young adult's better chances of survival, the more survival tools you give an indivigual the better there chances....Universities need and want talented indiviguals, they need them because they recieve publicity, and of course plenty of revenue from television contracts, boosters and the N.C.A.A....Dominican's in the majority are not taking full advantage of this situation neither in the States nor in the island, maybe right now building new facilities may be overly expensive, but build then on what you have expand or renovate, rebuild or reconstruct, but brainstorm and create survival tools for the future of children, the obvious solution is what can a community due to make it, and to make themselves more marketable.

 

[daddy1]

Rick..

My knowledge is that a lot of parents would work if there were jobs, at least the women would. It isn't a case of not providing uniforms but of not being able to provide uniforms because of the poverty here.

The uniform issue is very interesting in that I have found no law or regulation that states that children must have a uniform to go to school. If such a law were implemented then parents would have a justified reason to demand that the government supply said mandatory uniforms. There are many children that do in fact go to school without wearing a uniform and I've never heard of a child being refused education due to not having a uniform.

As to the colleges here in the DR. They too have a high drop out rate just like most countries throughout the world. It is my opinion that the poor education that the children are subjected to plus bad study habits in the schools below the college level play a detrimental role in preparing the children for college or life in general for that matter.

It too must be understood that the DR does not administer a standardized proficiency test to the children in elementary or high school. I honestly don't know if the children are required to take a test, such as the American SAT, before being admitted to a Dominican college. Someone else on this board would have to answer that question for me as I would like to know.

So where does the problem lie? Throughout the DR education system but it start in the pre-school and continues on.

Rick

Would you be in agreement If I said that all Dominican public schools should be totally bilingual? if not why...in the U.S. I have found that alot of latinos are suggesting that learning how to speak spanish in America, will make a person more diversed and has the potential to make more money, now you have Americans saying nearly the same thing...there is Esol in elementary schools, and spanish classes in high school etc.., then why is it that when this suggestion is brought to a Dominican's attention in the island about english as an essential language for more opportunities and communications this idea is rejected...why is this?

 

[Rick Snyder]

Mrs German, the Sec of Ed here, has implemented a program here for mandatory English classes for a select group of school as I guess a pilot program here in the DR.

Would I be in agreement with bilingual schools here? Not only no but hell no. If they can't even teach Spanish properly to their pupils what gives you the idea they could teach English? In the high schools here in the DR they do have foreign language as a selected subject. Some of my friends and former English students have the availability to learn German, French or English if they so desire.

Using El Seybo as an example and I don't know if you have ever been here. A Dominican born in this community has a 98% chance of being born and raised in poverty. In his early years he will be, on average, taught that women are the lower of the species, drinking and smoking are good and acceptable, lying is a common form of communication and the importance of a good rooster in a cockfight. He will has been called stupido or co?o more times then he can remember by his parents for any infraction he may have done as a child. He will be sent to a public school that may be run down and in his class of 30 students there might be 26 desks which means he might have to sit on the floor. He might or might not have the luck or means to have a pad of paper and or pencil. When he gets home from school he might or might not have a parent that inquires about his homework. If he has an interest in doing his homework and has a problem with it he usually can't rely on his parents or brothers or sisters for help because they are not educated well enough to help or if they do help there is the possibility that they will be instructed incorrectly. He will go through pre-school and the first and second grade without ever hearing an explanation as to what an alphabet is or that other languages have different alphabets unless he should ask this question of his teacher. He will not at anytime in his precollege schooling be taught correctly how many letters are contained in his native language. As a matter of fact he will be taught a lie and taught that there are only 27 letters in the Spanish alphabet because the RAE did away with two letters in 1994.

This explanation and the earlier one I gave of my sons class schedule should give you an idea as to what the average child is subjected to in this country in the form of education or lack thereof.

In the light of all this what makes you think that ANYTHING can be ADDED to 3 or less hours of paper and pen schooling a day?

Rick

 

[bob saunders]

The following link tells me that there are people in the DR that care about Education. The study#2 comes up with many of the same conclusions as Rick, however they have still further studies to complete before they are ready to make their recommendations. My quick read of the study comes up with the conclusion that there isn't a great deal wrong with the cirriculum, but they found that it isn't being followed,for example, they is a requirement for 5 hours of Math per week, and many teachers are not aware of the purpose of teaching children(ie....developing their minds to make them critical thinkers). To me the greatest thing a teacher can do for a child is to develop a love of learning. Clearly this can only be done by a teacher that takes teaching as a vocation, not just a job. And Rick as I told you before, my wife school teaches all 29 letters, and I'm sure some others on DR, like PIB, whose mother has taught in the DR for many years, will tell you that her mother teaches a little different that what you are experiencing in El Seybo. http://www.albany.edu/lacs/EERC.htm

 

[Rick Snyder]

Bob,
I want to thank you for that link as it was very interesting reading.

According to Report #2 by the EERC, dated June 15, 2004, that you referenced, they state

"This *is *an *approach *that *will *permit, *for *the *first *time *in *the *Dominican *Republic, *an *exploration *of *how *student *grow *in *knowledge *and *skills *as *a *result *of *their *transit *through *the *elementary *grades.".

All this is well and good but I honestly think that such research and investigation should be directed toward the first 4 years of education here in the DR instead of the last 4 years. Kind of like closing the barn door after all the horses have escaped.Quote from the report;

"An *important *discovery *was *how *much *of *geometry *instruction *appears *to *be *represented *by *the *review *of *material *presented *(and *presumably *never *mastered) *in *previous *grades. **Thus, *for *example, *students’ *notebook *in *eighth *grade *show *most *lessons *devoted *to *subjects *intended *for *earlier *grades *(Measurement *and *Pythagorean *Theorem *and *Angles) *and *only *one *(line *and *coordinate *graphs) *in *common *with *the *textbook *expectations *in *Geometry *for *grade *8."

It is interesting to note that they mention the National Curriculum as having 413 pages but two years ago when I requested and received the "National Curriculum" it was only 3 pages in length. Hummmmmmmmmm...

For those of your interested but don't want to read the full reports I will give a little background and summation with a couple of their quotes on their findings.

The EERC conducted on-site visits to 32 schools in the DR. They observed classes and checked notebooks of children in the 4th through the 8th grade. They observed only Math and Spanish Language classes. They checked only 15 math notebooks and 14 Spanish notebooks picked out by the teachers. They state that 200 DR schools were involved in this report.
Some of their findings;**

"Parents *are *often *difficult *to *engage *as *partners *in *their *children’s *education, *those *that *work *are *often *unable *to *devote *time *to *their *children, *and *many *parents *are *functionally *illiterate. **These *critical *deficits *in *social *capital *are *no *doubt *important *limiting *factors -they *are *also, *unfortunately, *challenges *common *to *many *Dominican *schools." *

"A *number *of *schools *lack *minimal *physical *requirements *to *support *the *provision *of *meaningful *opportunities *to *learn. **Classrooms *lack *illumination *and *adequate *desks *and *chairs, *schools *lack *lavatory *facilities, *and *textbooks *are *often *insufficient *in *number *or *in *poor *condition."

"There *were *signs *of *apathy *and *lack *of *motivation *on *the *part *of *some *teachers *(during *the *classroom *observations *conducted *in *spring *2003, *for *example, *teachers *were *sometimes *absent *or *late *for *no *apparent *reason)." *

"Reference *to *abilities *in *the *area *of *problem *solving *in *Mathematics, *were *largely *absent, *for *example." *

"These *review *lessons *seem *to *indicate *a *conception *of *school *mathematics *as *a *subject *largely *devoted *to *the *recognition *and *reetition *of *definitions *and *some *simple *theorems, *the *performance *of *algorithms, *and *other *routine *procedures. **Similarly, *the *Spanish *language *classes *appeared *also *to *be *primarily *about *the *acquisition *and *practicing *of *simple *low‐level *discrete *skills *in *decoding."

"The *review *classes *observed *do *not *accord *a *high *priority *to *going *much *beyond *the *simple *demonstration *of *prior *knowledge. **Students *were *not *required *to *demonstrate *how *they *could *formulate *and *clarify *problems, *select *or *develop *problem‐solving *strategies *or *data‐gathering *activities, *or *execute *an *ad *hoc *solution *strategy, *or *one *that *was *chosen *as *a *result *of *a *self‐generated *problem‐solving *strategy. **Such *goals *were *embodied *however *in *the *intended *curriculum *for *these *grades."

Remember what I said about misconception being taught in the Spanish alphabet?

"School *visits *show, *for *example, *that *a *number *of *teachers *do *not *have *solid *foundations *in *Mathematics *– *and *thus *evidence *troublesome *misconceptions *and *errors *in *their *teaching. Similarly, *a *number *of *classroom *observations *showed *teachers *committing *a *number *of *elementary *spelling *and *grammatical *mistakes *in *their *work. **Certainly *these *are *foundational *aspects *impeding *a *teacher’s *ability *to *deliver *strong, *compelling *instruction *in *these *school *subjects."

I have stated in prior posts and I will state it again. In the last 3 years I have conducted a survey of over 4 thousand Dominicans between the ages of 8 to 28.The two questions were 1. How many letters are in the Spanish Alphabet? 2. Can you recite the alphabet? 93.7 percent could not correctly answer the first question and 93 percent could not correctly recite the letters they knew.This survey was conducted from Santo Domingo going east to Higuey and La Romana. When you are out and about ask those 2 question of the local Dominicans you see and if you would be so kind let me know what you find out.

Rick

 

[daddy1]

Bob,
I want to thank you for that link as it was very interesting reading.

According to Report #2 by the EERC, dated June 15, 2004, that you referenced, they state

"This *is *an *approach *that *will *permit, *for *the *first *time *in *the *Dominican *Republic, *an *exploration *of *how *student *grow *in *knowledge *and *skills *as *a *result *of *their *transit *through *the *elementary *grades.".

All this is well and good but I honestly think that such research and investigation should be directed toward the first 4 years of education here in the DR instead of the last 4 years. Kind of like closing the barn door after all the horses have escaped.Quote from the report;

"An *important *discovery *was *how *much *of *geometry *instruction *appears *to *be *represented *by *the *review *of *material *presented *(and *presumably *never *mastered) *in *previous *grades. **Thus, *for *example, *students’ *notebook *in *eighth *grade *show *most *lessons *devoted *to *subjects *intended *for *earlier *grades *(Measurement *and *Pythagorean *Theorem *and *Angles) *and *only *one *(line *and *coordinate *graphs) *in *common *with *the *textbook *expectations *in *Geometry *for *grade *8."

It is interesting to note that they mention the National Curriculum as having 413 pages but two years ago when I requested and received the "National Curriculum" it was only 3 pages in length. Hummmmmmmmmm...

For those of your interested but don't want to read the full reports I will give a little background and summation with a couple of their quotes on their findings.

The EERC conducted on-site visits to 32 schools in the DR. They observed classes and checked notebooks of children in the 4th through the 8th grade. They observed only Math and Spanish Language classes. They checked only 15 math notebooks and 14 Spanish notebooks picked out by the teachers. They state that 200 DR schools were involved in this report.
Some of their findings;**

"Parents *are *often *difficult *to *engage *as *partners *in *their *children’s *education, *those *that *work *are *often *unable *to *devote *time *to *their *children, *and *many *parents *are *functionally *illiterate. **These *critical *deficits *in *social *capital *are *no *doubt *important *limiting *factors -they *are *also, *unfortunately, *challenges *common *to *many *Dominican *schools." *

"A *number *of *schools *lack *minimal *physical *requirements *to *support *the *provision *of *meaningful *opportunities *to *learn. **Classrooms *lack *illumination *and *adequate *desks *and *chairs, *schools *lack *lavatory *facilities, *and *textbooks *are *often *insufficient *in *number *or *in *poor *condition."

"There *were *signs *of *apathy *and *lack *of *motivation *on *the *part *of *some *teachers *(during *the *classroom *observations *conducted *in *spring *2003, *for *example, *teachers *were *sometimes *absent *or *late *for *no *apparent *reason)." *

"Reference *to *abilities *in *the *area *of *problem *solving *in *Mathematics, *were *largely *absent, *for *example." *

"These *review *lessons *seem *to *indicate *a *conception *of *school *mathematics *as *a *subject *largely *devoted *to *the *recognition *and *reetition *of *definitions *and *some *simple *theorems, *the *performance *of *algorithms, *and *other *routine *procedures. **Similarly, *the *Spanish *language *classes *appeared *also *to *be *primarily *about *the *acquisition *and *practicing *of *simple *low‐level *discrete *skills *in *decoding."

"The *review *classes *observed *do *not *accord *a *high *priority *to *going *much *beyond *the *simple *demonstration *of *prior *knowledge. **Students *were *not *required *to *demonstrate *how *they *could *formulate *and *clarify *problems, *select *or *develop *problem‐solving *strategies *or *data‐gathering *activities, *or *execute *an *ad *hoc *solution *strategy, *or *one *that *was *chosen *as *a *result *of *a *self‐generated *problem‐solving *strategy. **Such *goals *were *embodied *however *in *the *intended *curriculum *for *these *grades."

Remember what I said about misconception being taught in the Spanish alphabet?

"School *visits *show, *for *example, *that *a *number *of *teachers *do *not *have *solid *foundations *in *Mathematics *– *and *thus *evidence *troublesome *misconceptions *and *errors *in *their *teaching. Similarly, *a *number *of *classroom *observations *showed *teachers *committing *a *number *of *elementary *spelling *and *grammatical *mistakes *in *their *work. **Certainly *these *are *foundational *aspects *impeding *a *teacher’s *ability *to *deliver *strong, *compelling *instruction *in *these *school *subjects."

I have stated in prior posts and I will state it again. In the last 3 years I have conducted a survey of over 4 thousand Dominicans between the ages of 8 to 28.The two questions were 1. How many letters are in the Spanish Alphabet? 2. Can you recite the alphabet? 93.7 percent could not correctly answer the first question and 93 percent could not correctly recite the letters they knew.This survey was conducted from Santo Domingo going east to Higuey and La Romana. When you are out and about ask those 2 question of the local Dominicans you see and if you would be so kind let me know what you find out.

Rick

Rick, you are a bowl of valuable information when it comes to D.R's educational system, I never knew these survey's existed...but very informative and interesting indeed....it seems that the development of the educational system has alot of obstacle to overcome, and many natural enemies....it's funny because Dominican American's preach here that the education in D.R. is great if not better than many educational establishments in the U.S. etc...but in speaking with people like yourself and John, with inside facts and important information, it's truly eye opening,...but what is so Ironic is that those same observations is what I also observe here in the states with the majority of the Dominican parents as well, it's a cycle in the community regardless of where there at it seems!

 

[Rick Snyder]

Daddy 1,
The development of the educational system here in the DR does indeed have alot of obstacles to overcome as do other countries. My problem is I do not live in other countries and my child attends school here. The Dominicans are the ones that I must converse and deal with in my everyday life and the Dominican children are the people that I view day in and day out. Because of these inter actions with the people it pains me to witness the simple ignorance of the people,and especially the children, in those simple and basic things that I, a person without a lot of education, have been taught from a very early childhood and on.

Looking back on life I remember my parents telling me to cover my mouth when I cough. At the age of 3 or 4 I probably thought this idea was stupid as it had a tendency to make my hand wet but through time it became a habit and to this day I instinctively and automatically cover my mouth when I cough or sneeze. By the same token I always use a paper towel or handkerchief to clean my nose. It wasn't until I was in the second grade of public school that I learned what germs were and how the common cold had no cure, how it was transmitted from person to person and what we could do to help stop the transmission of this temporary disabling or burdening aliment. As a young child of 4 I remember learning the alphabet song and within a few minute or maybe an hour I could recite the whole alphabet with all its 26 letters and end it with "Now I know my ABC's and aren't you very proud of me". Jimmeny Cricket of Walt Disney fame taught me a little song that proved useful later in life. Does anyone remember him singing E-N-C-Y-C-L-O-P-E-D-I-A? I learned the alphabet and how to spell encyclopedia before I could read and write. I learned how to help stop the transmission of airborne diseases before I learned what an airborne disease was. The question is did my learning these, very common to American learning, items help me in my education later in life and or help humanity in any way? I would think that by being able to recite the alphabet I was better prepared to understand and grasp that which my teachers were trying to teach. I know that from the age of 4 I have been able to correctly spell the word encyclopedia in the limited times I've had to write this word. I know that I have helped in preventing other people from getting sick from those airborne diseases that I have acquired in my life. There are many many similar examples of things that we as Americans have been taught that have had and still do have a tendency to help us and humanity. Basics, those things that many of you take for granted and don't even think about. Remember "Smokey the Bear"? Who can prevent forest fires? Or as mentioned in the environment thread the "Crying Indian". How many people from the USA have failed to throw litter because they have seen that commercial of a full grown American Indian with a tear falling from his eye as he looks at a polluted and littered section of a river? It is those basics that we are taught and exposed to that help us and humanity throughout our lives. M-I-crooked letter-crooked letter-I-crooked letter-crooked letter-I-humped back-humped back-I = Mississippi.

If the Dominican population could be taught some of those basics that a lot of us have taken for granted would not humanity and the Dominicans be better off?

I have devised a little jingle with the Spanish alphabet for easy learning. I used this method 4 years ago with 12 children in my barrio to teach them their alphabet. 8 of those children still have what I taught to memory 4 years later. Has this helped them in their learning in school? I have no idea but I do know that if you ask them how many letters are in the Spanish alphabet they will respond with 29. If you ask them to recite same they will do so without a mistake. If you ask them since when has the Spanish alphabet had 29 letters they will respond with "since 1803".

As being able to teach the Spanish alphabet in song form in one hour, in my opinion is a proven possibility, then why isn't it used? I have offered to teach, at no charge, children and or teachers my method here in El Seybo. I have offered my services at no charge to the Secretary of Education of the DR. Is ANYONE interested in my idea? NO !!!!!!! Go figure.

Rick

 

[daddy1]

Daddy 1,
The development of the educational system here in the DR does indeed have alot of obstacles to overcome as do other countries. My problem is I do not live in other countries and my child attends school here. The Dominicans are the ones that I must converse and deal with in my everyday life and the Dominican children are the people that I view day in and day out. Because of these inter actions with the people it pains me to witness the simple ignorance of the people,and especially the children, in those simple and basic things that I, a person without a lot of education, have been taught from a very early childhood and on.

Looking back on life I remember my parents telling me to cover my mouth when I cough. At the age of 3 or 4 I probably thought this idea was stupid as it had a tendency to make my hand wet but through time it became a habit and to this day I instinctively and automatically cover my mouth when I cough or sneeze. By the same token I always use a paper towel or handkerchief to clean my nose. It wasn't until I was in the second grade of public school that I learned what germs were and how the common cold had no cure, how it was transmitted from person to person and what we could do to help stop the transmission of this temporary disabling or burdening aliment. As a young child of 4 I remember learning the alphabet song and within a few minute or maybe an hour I could recite the whole alphabet with all its 26 letters and end it with "Now I know my ABC's and aren't you very proud of me". Jimmeny Cricket of Walt Disney fame taught me a little song that proved useful later in life. Does anyone remember him singing E-N-C-Y-C-L-O-P-E-D-I-A? I learned the alphabet and how to spell encyclopedia before I could read and write. I learned how to help stop the transmission of airborne diseases before I learned what an airborne disease was. The question is did my learning these, very common to American learning, items help me in my education later in life and or help humanity in any way? I would think that by being able to recite the alphabet I was better prepared to understand and grasp that which my teachers were trying to teach. I know that from the age of 4 I have been able to correctly spell the word encyclopedia in the limited times I've had to write this word. I know that I have helped in preventing other people from getting sick from those airborne diseases that I have acquired in my life. There are many many similar examples of things that we as Americans have been taught that have had and still do have a tendency to help us and humanity. Basics, those things that many of you take for granted and don't even think about. Remember "Smokey the Bear"? Who can prevent forest fires? Or as mentioned in the environment thread the "Crying Indian". How many people from the USA have failed to throw litter because they have seen that commercial of a full grown American Indian with a tear falling from his eye as he looks at a polluted and littered section of a river? It is those basics that we are taught and exposed to that help us and humanity throughout our lives. M-I-crooked letter-crooked letter-I-crooked letter-crooked letter-I-humped back-humped back-I = Mississippi.

If the Dominican population could be taught some of those basics that a lot of us have taken for granted would not humanity and the Dominicans be better off?

I have devised a little jingle with the Spanish alphabet for easy learning. I used this method 4 years ago with 12 children in my barrio to teach them their alphabet. 8 of those children still have what I taught to memory 4 years later. Has this helped them in their learning in school? I have no idea but I do know that if you ask them how many letters are in the Spanish alphabet they will respond with 29. If you ask them to recite same they will do so without a mistake. If you ask them since when has the Spanish alphabet had 29 letters they will respond with "since 1803".

As being able to teach the Spanish alphabet in song form in one hour, in my opinion is a proven possibility, then why isn't it used? I have offered to teach, at no charge, children and or teachers my method here in El Seybo. I have offered my services at no charge to the Secretary of Education of the DR. Is ANYONE interested in my idea? NO !!!!!!! Go figure.

Rick

Yes, I also I remember all those commercials, but Rick answer this one for me if you can...Who runs school like the Carol Morgan, American school, and the Dominico Americo schools out there, in my opinion they charge way to much money for basic American public school teachings, now when lived out there an I was looking for a school to enroll my kids in I would ask the the principle why are you charging so much for education in a poor country, some of the responses I recieved were outrages...like...because we teach english:ermm: another was we are S.A.C.S. accredited and certified:ermm:
here's another...because the parents want it this way! now I stood there with :surprised look on my face, I just had weary feelings about those schools. I mean who are the true beneficiaries of these schools.

there are private schools here in the U.S. who charge less and offer more...it seems that these schools are a luxury item for the rich, to shield there children.. its all about segregation, protection, and seperation from the poor and lower class, now this may be a conspiracy theory, but how else can you seperate your rich kid from the rest of the population, these schools in my opinion are not institutions for higher learning, this is not what the big bucks are all about anyway...so they could not convince me with that...

How can you charge a child all that money for a so called an American certified education when the very same S.A.C.S. curriculum there following is free all over the U.S....please!! now are these kids all garenteed academic scholarships when they leave these schools...maybe there is something I'm missing.... it's just paying for school in the D.R. is just as crazy as not going to school at all! it's all but another business in my book.

The solution for a better education is not to pay an arm and a leg for it, at least not for elementary middle school nor high school levels, but just simple planning, funding, and a more demanding community, when that happens those schools will shut down.

 

[Rick Snyder]

Daddy1,
Your post made me laugh and I thank you for that morning delight as the subject of education in this country always makes me mad or sad so a little humor caused by truths spoken is a plus.

As I don't have any experience with private schools other then the private pre-school my son attended I can't answer your question other then to say that they are privately owned but they must follow the curriculum established by the Board of Education and must report to said board. As they are private they are able to charge for their services and they have established those prices that the market will bear. The ideal teaching situation in my opinion would be a teacher with no more then 10 studdents. If you had 3 teachers then you could theoretically enroll 30 students. These 30 paying students would need to pay enough for you to pay the 3 teachers and to pay you the owner enough to cover other overhead and your salary as the director or owner. With the experience that I have acquired from 9 years of living here I would say that how much of a thief you are plays an important role in the final cost of the tuition you charge for your school.

I can state that the private pre-school that my son attended for two years at the ages of 3 and 4 had a set curriculum and did not deviate from said curriculum from one year to the next. So what did this mean to the teachings of my son.? At the age of 3 he learned A, E, I, O, U el burro sabe mas que tu along with the introduction of the other letters to form syllables like ma, me, mi, mo, mu el burro sabe mas que tu and how to count to 20. In his second year, at the age of 4, he repeated exactly what he was taught the year before verbatim. I paid a fee of RD$ 200 per month. To some of you this may not sound like much and it wasn't much to me but for the area of the country I live in 200 pesos a month is a lot.

Let's fast forward to the first grade in my sons education. The public school was once a private catholic school but for what ever reason they went public. Due to its prior private status and as it still had the same director I thought that the education my son would receive would be above that of other public schools in the area. As I have always closely followed my sons education I soon learned that in the first grade he was being taught A, E, I, O, U el burro sabe mas que tu. This was a verbatim course that he was taught at the age of 3 and again at the age of 4. This upset me immensely and I therefore checked the other public and 1 private elementary schools in my area and found they all taught the same curriculum in the first grade. The math and other subjects were more advanced than the pre-school but the Spanish language class was no improvement over the pre-school.

At this point I must explain that the director of my sons school has been the director there for more then 10 years. She has more then 20 years teaching experience and is well respected within the community. When I learned that they were only teaching that the alphabet only had 27 letters I quickly approached the director and questioned her on this matter. I pointed out that the text books that my son had, I will interject that these books had a 1998 or more recent printed date, showed either 28 letters, minus the (w), or 29 letters so therefore why didn't they teach that the alphabet had 28 or 29 letters. Her, a very experienced educator, said " The RAE in 1994 eliminated the letters (ch- che) and (ll- elle) so we therefore no longer teach them". I asked why they were eliminated when the Spanish language can not survive without these two letters and she said "I don't know".

Thanks to Bob Saunders prior post I have learned that the education board here in the DR has a 413 page curriculum guide and as stated in the EERC report this curriculum may very well be efficient enough to properly educate the children if followed correctly. By the 3 paged curriculum that I have been shown by the director of my sons school it is apparent that the schools are not following the curriculum devised by the board of education. The alternatives for this are either they don't want or know how to follow them or they haven't been given copies of this 413 page document. Something I will have to investigate when the vacation term is over. I will get back to you on that.

Rick

 

[daddy1]

Daddy1,
Your post made me laugh and I thank you for that morning delight as the subject of education in this country always makes me mad or sad so a little humor caused by truths spoken is a plus.

As I don't have any experience with private schools other then the private pre-school my son attended I can't answer your question other then to say that they are privately owned but they must follow the curriculum established by the Board of Education and must report to said board. As they are private they are able to charge for their services and they have established those prices that the market will bear. The ideal teaching situation in my opinion would be a teacher with no more then 10 studdents. If you had 3 teachers then you could theoretically enroll 30 students. These 30 paying students would need to pay enough for you to pay the 3 teachers and to pay you the owner enough to cover other overhead and your salary as the director or owner. With the experience that I have acquired from 9 years of living here I would say that how much of a thief you are plays an important role in the final cost of the tuition you charge for your school.

I can state that the private pre-school that my son attended for two years at the ages of 3 and 4 had a set curriculum and did not deviate from said curriculum from one year to the next. So what did this mean to the teachings of my son.? At the age of 3 he learned A, E, I, O, U el burro sabe mas que tu along with the introduction of the other letters to form syllables like ma, me, mi, mo, mu el burro sabe mas que tu and how to count to 20. In his second year, at the age of 4, he repeated exactly what he was taught the year before verbatim. I paid a fee of RD$ 200 per month. To some of you this may not sound like much and it wasn't much to me but for the area of the country I live in 200 pesos a month is a lot.

Let's fast forward to the first grade in my sons education. The public school was once a private catholic school but for what ever reason they went public. Due to its prior private status and as it still had the same director I thought that the education my son would receive would be above that of other public schools in the area. As I have always closely followed my sons education I soon learned that in the first grade he was being taught A, E, I, O, U el burro sabe mas que tu. This was a verbatim course that he was taught at the age of 3 and again at the age of 4. This upset me immensely and I therefore checked the other public and 1 private elementary schools in my area and found they all taught the same curriculum in the first grade. The math and other subjects were more advanced than the pre-school but the Spanish language class was no improvement over the pre-school.

At this point I must explain that the director of my sons school has been the director there for more then 10 years. She has more then 20 years teaching experience and is well respected within the community. When I learned that they were only teaching that the alphabet only had 27 letters I quickly approached the director and questioned her on this matter. I pointed out that the text books that my son had, I will interject that these books had a 1998 or more recent printed date, showed either 28 letters, minus the (w), or 29 letters so therefore why didn't they teach that the alphabet had 28 or 29 letters. Her, a very experienced educator, said " The RAE in 1994 eliminated the letters (ch- che) and (ll- elle) so we therefore no longer teach them". I asked why they were eliminated when the Spanish language can not survive without these two letters and she said "I don't know".

Thanks to Bob Saunders prior post I have learned that the education board here in the DR has a 413 page curriculum guide and as stated in the EERC report this curriculum may very well be efficient enough to properly educate the children if followed correctly. By the 3 paged curriculum that I have been shown by the director of my sons school it is apparent that the schools are not following the curriculum devised by the board of education. The alternatives for this are either they don't want or know how to follow them or they haven't been given copies of this 413 page document. Something I will have to investigate when the vacation term is over. I will get back to you on that.

Rick

Interesting indeed...but funny that there seem to be vigilanty teacher's out there just doing there own thing..scary at best...

Anyway Rick! may you and your family have a safe and a very Merry Christmas:classic: ...talk to soon!

 

[indiana16]

The interesting thing is that it appears, that many Dominicans continue to shun education even when its readily available to them, as we have seen with Dominican emigrants in the US.

People have different situations. One example,a single mother who comes to the USA with 2 children to support. How can she afford to go to school full-time and support 2 children?