Rebuilding Haiti

mountainannie

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Dec 11, 2003
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It seems there is the opinion among some Haitians that the foreigners should stay for the long term as they believe when they are gone the corruption of the politicians will halt any progression.

I know a couple of things I have about the government laws that aren't conducive to growth:

- foreigners can't own property
- foreign businesses can be expected to pay a large amount of the net profit to be able to do business. For example, I was told a any foreign mining operations would be expected to pay 51% of the net profit.
- No dual citizenship - thus all the wealth of highly educated and wealthy Haitians living abroad can't come back and realy contribute to the country.


As Pedro rightly noted,. the provision for foreign property holders is indeed for one business or one residential property.. Not a ban at all. There are plenty of foreigners who own small hotels or other businesses. And this can be skirted by having the business in the husbands name and the house in the wifes for instance.

What has really hindered development is the time that it takes to open a business.. up to two years.

2.
As for taxes.. I am certainly in agreement with Pedro on this one.. it will be a GREAT thing for Haiti to have the gold mines pay high taxes.. As for the other business.. it will good for them to pay ANY taxes at all,, which they have not done in the past.

Haiti has made great strides under Preval in cleaning up some of the graft in the ports, for instance, by having all the frieght clear Haitian customs through an NGO oversight in Miami so that the money does not just go to bribing port officials,

3. The issue of dual citizenship is not just a law. It is in the Constitution. And in order to amend the Haitian constitution.. UNLIKE here ... is that it must be passed by one Congress, then a second, then implemented into law by the third. So the entire process takes 6 years. Both the diaspora and the international community have been pushing for this since Aristides first term in 1991... but with the coups and all.. this last Congresss was the first one to pass it the First time.. So.. assuming that we can get some sort of agreed on resolution of an election.. there could be a Constitutional change in four years.

Many of the Haitian elite in place there have opposed this.. but I doubt that they will do so now.

Also.. in order to run for political office.. a person must not only NOT have two passports... (Reginald Boulos was kicked out of the Senate for this since he was born in the USA) but must have lived in Haiti for five years prior to running for office.

There is one candidate who has already announced who is trying a snazzy run around this by saying that well yes,,, he did serve as an officer in the US medical corps.. but refused promotion to colonel since it would mean taking US citizenship.... Liar liar pants on fire!!


And you can certainly reassure the Haitians that the international community is going to be there for a long long long time..... perhaps even to 7 generations!!!!!!!!!


there is just too much money on the table to leave it to Haitians......
 

Chip

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Barack mining are subject to international best practice as dictated by some international mining body or other. I think it sounds like a scam but if they are subject to giving over 51% to Haiti then good! They estimate costs of 300US$ per ounce to get the gold from the ground. The current bubble gold price is over 1000US$ per ounce. They are looking at a minimum of 70 million ounces of gold so a friend from the local partner tells me. So boo-hoo for the miners. They are set to make a stink load of money. Who the hell has the right to say that they should make more than the Haitian people from their own natural resources?

Your always good for assuming the worst - nice try though.

My specific example was mining limestone for aggregates or cal carb. Who could make the bottom line work in a situation like this? Exactly no one.

Defending schit like this is the reason no one wants to do business in this country.
 

pedrochemical

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Your always good for assuming the worst - nice try though.

My specific example was mining limestone for aggregates or cal carb. Who could make the bottom line work in a situation like this? Exactly no one.

Defending schit like this is the reason no one wants to do business in this country.


You are so funny.

I realise now that I loved doing business there to be honest. Actually I miss it these days. Life seems less of a challenge on the Dominican Republic.

For aggregate everyone goes to the river - it is free - they always have done and they always will do.
For limestone derivatives they go between Titonye and Cabaret and on up to Morne Rouis and as far as St Marc if they want the good stuff - it is free - you just take a chunk of mountain and hack it to bits. They always have done and they always will do.

You are going to get so fleeced if you do not learn how Haiti works.
Paying for aggregate indeed - that is a good one Chip.
Nearly as funny as MINUSTAH picking up trash!

Good luck - you are gonna need it son!!
What is it people keep saying on this board - You are not in Santiago now, Dorothia.

;)
 

pedrochemical

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And before you start going on about quality - my 3500Psi concrete was at least 3500Psi - every inch of it.
This was using traditional local materials from both of the big companies that provide these materials.
I can introduce you if you like?
 

Chip

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Notwithstanding your experience here in PAP, it is apparent that inferior materials are sold here as first grade materials and unfortunately it is not in doubt that many thousands of Haitians died needlessly because of greed.

BTW, not everyone has a backpack rock crusher that they use to crush and sort aggregate when needed. :)
 

pedrochemical

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Aug 22, 2008
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Notwithstanding your experience here in PAP, it is apparent that inferior materials are sold here as first grade materials and unfortunately it is not in doubt that many thousands of Haitians died needlessly because of greed.

BTW, not everyone has a backpack rock crusher that they use to crush and sort aggregate when needed. :)


The people who make blocks, deliver concrete and sell aggregate get their aggregate from the river. The big companies do this. The material is of a high quality. There are people who sell shoddy blocks - so do not buy them. You will know the blocks are shoddy because you can punch them in half and most of them will be cracked by the time the truck delivers them to your location.
Otherwise the main problems are contractors skimping on cement in the mix and not using enough re-bar - or worse - using enough rebar but not tying it correctly. That is your responsibility to supervise when building something.
You can have your concrete delivered if you do not want to mix it yourself. These people do their own crushing - again from river rock. That is why the companies are located a stone's throw (;)) from the river access.

Like I say, I can put you in touch with the main suppliers, if you like?



Interestingly, if you travel in the provinces you will see by the side of the road guys crushing rocks with a small ball-peade hammer. They do this all day. You will see piles of rocks of varying sizes. What a terrible job! Respect to these guys for feeding their families though.

And yes the greed and stupidity of contractors killed a lot of people in the earthquake. It is your responsibility to make sure that everything you build is correct and in order - not just pray that it will stand up like a lot of contractors.
 
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mountainannie

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You are so funny.

I realise now that I loved doing business there to be honest. Actually I miss it these days. Life seems less of a challenge on the Dominican Republic.

For aggregate everyone goes to the river - it is free - they always have done and they always will do.
For limestone derivatives they go between Titonye and Cabaret and on up to Morne Rouis and as far as St Marc if they want the good stuff - it is free - you just take a chunk of mountain and hack it to bits. They always have done and they always will do.

You are going to get so fleeced if you do not learn how Haiti works.
Paying for aggregate indeed - that is a good one Chip.
Nearly as funny as MINUSTAH picking up trash!

Good luck - you are gonna need it son!!
What is it people keep saying on this board - You are not in Santiago now, Dorothia.

;)

Pedro

I am sorry that I cannot give you more reputation points.. have to pass them around

But THANKS so much for all your good information on Haiti...
 

juanita

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Container construction here in Arroyo Hondo:
Ingenio dominicano convierte furg?n en una “ex?tica” villa | Imagenes Dominicanas

http://ponsarquitectos.blogspot.com/2008/03/proyectos-habitacionales.html
 
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mountainannie

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THANKS Juanita!!


There is a lot of discussion on the Haiti lists about housing but while the shipping containers.. which run about $2000 have been proposed,,. there was never a fix for releasing the interior heat...

this solves it
have reposted in my blog http://http://elizabetheames.blogspot.com/2010/02/housing-for-haiti.html

and on Facebook

would ask for all DR1ers who have blogs or Facebook accounts to do the same-.----

WELL DONE
 
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There is a lot of discussion on the Haiti lists about housing but while the shipping containers.. which run about $2000 have been proposed,,. there was never a fix for releasing the interior heat...

this solves it
have reposted in my blog http://http://elizabetheames.blogspo...for-haiti.html

Couldn't get the link to work. Don't know if you saw it, but in another post, I suggested stacking three 20' containers with the bottom one buried to ground level. The bottom would be a dry well(septic?), the middle would be a public toilet/shower station and the top would be a ~9500 gallon water resevoir. The thermal mass of the water tank would help keep the temp down in the main section. Not sure if you could use the water tank for potable water.
 

mountainannie

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Dec 11, 2003
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Couldn't get the link to work. Don't know if you saw it, but in another post, I suggested stacking three 20' containers with the bottom one buried to ground level. The bottom would be a dry well(septic?), the middle would be a public toilet/shower station and the top would be a ~9500 gallon water resevoir. The thermal mass of the water tank would help keep the temp down in the main section. Not sure if you could use the water tank for potable water.

Changing Perspectives: Housing for Haiti

here is the link

if you can do a pdf file of your idea.. i can repost to the Haiti groups

thanks

sounds like a great idea!
 
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paddy

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I just reiceved this in the mail..is it accurate?
A small reminder of history.

In the 1700?s what is now Haiti was called the ?Jewel of the Caribbean,?
and supplied about 40% of the world?s sugar.

In 1791 the government of France passed legislation to phase out slavery in its
Caribbean colonies and grant the former Negro slaves citizenship.
Rather than becoming citizens, Haiti?s Negro population mass murdered
all whites and Mulattoes who could not flee the Island in time.

In 1804 only full blooded Negros remained and Haiti became the first Negro ruled nation.
The Haitian revolution dominated America?s debate over slavery. While both the
north and the south agreed that slavery should be ended, southerners and a
large percentage of northerners universally opposed having a large population
of freed slaves living in their midst.. The Haitian ?Revolution?
was fresh in every one?s mind.

Flash forward to 1915. The ?Jewel of the Caribbean? is now a desolate cesspool,
that is exporting almost no sugar. The United States decides to
?take up the white man?s burden? and send the US Marine Corps to rebuild Haiti?s
infrastructure and feed it?s starving population.

The United States gave huge amounts of money to Haiti and over-saw the
building of 1,000 miles of road, telephone lines, modernized its port, and helped
Haiti to start exporting sugar once again. The US also put an end to the thousands
of bandits along Haiti?s border with the Dominican Republic.

The US left in 1934 at the request of the then stabilized
and very ungrateful Haitian government.

Haiti immediately sank straight back into total desolation strife.
In 1973 the United State once again began playing a huge role in Haiti,
giving the Island huge sums of money in handouts each year.

In 1994 the Clinton administration once again sent the US military to Haiti
to rebuild the Island?s infrastructure. In 1995 the Peace Corps went to Haiti
in large numbers to train the Haitians in job skills. The US government spent
almost one Billion providing food and job training to the
Haitians between '95 and '99.

So when Obama says that Haiti has our ?full, unwavering, support,?
they have already had our full support since 1915..


I wonder how long it?ll be before we?re asked to leave again?
 
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Vacara

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I just reiceved this in the mail..is it accurate?
A small reminder of history.

In the 1700?s what is now Haiti was called the ?Jewel of the Caribbean,?
and supplied about 40% of the world?s sugar.

In 1791 the government of France passed legislation to phase out slavery in its
Caribbean colonies and grant the former Negro slaves citizenship.
Rather than becoming citizens, Haiti?s Negro population mass murdered
all whites and Mulattoes who could not flee the Island in time.

In 1804 only full blooded Negros remained and Haiti became the first Negro ruled nation.
The Haitian revolution dominated America?s debate over slavery. While both the
north and the south agreed that slavery should be ended, southerners and a
large percentage of northerners universally opposed having a large population
of freed slaves living in their midst.. The Haitian ?Revolution?
was fresh in every one?s mind.

Flash forward to 1915. The ?Jewel of the Caribbean? is now a desolate cesspool,
that is exporting almost no sugar. The United States decides to
?take up the white man?s burden? and send the US Marine Corps to rebuild Haiti?s
infrastructure and feed it?s starving population.

The United States gave huge amounts of money to Haiti and over-saw the
building of 1,000 miles of road, telephone lines, modernized its port, and helped
Haiti to start exporting sugar once again. The US also put an end to the thousands
of bandits along Haiti?s border with the Dominican Republic.

The US left in 1934 at the request of the then stabilized
and very ungrateful Haitian government.

Haiti immediately sank straight back into total desolation strife.
In 1973 the United State once again began playing a huge role in Haiti,
giving the Island huge sums of money in handouts each year.

In 1994 the Clinton administration once again sent the US military to Haiti
to rebuild the Island?s infrastructure. In 1995 the Peace Corps went to Haiti
in large numbers to train the Haitians in job skills. The US government spent
almost one Billion providing food and job training to the
Haitians between '95 and '99.

So when Obama says that Haiti has our ?full, unwavering, support,?
they have already had our full support since 1915..


I wonder how long it?ll be before we?re asked to leave again?

Paddy; is there any segment of that email that speaks positively about Haiti and Haitians?.
 
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They are at best cherry picking their facts and in other instances they are simply wrong. You can't sum up the last 300 years of history in a few paragraphs. Much of Haiti's current poverty has been caused by external forces, the support of the Duvalier regimes, and the systematic destruction of their agrarian economy in the 1980s.

That is not history. That is racist propaganda. For exampple, 1934 was not exactly a boom time for the US either.
 
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Compare that "history" to this one. Both are slanted.

Haiti: overthrowing slavery and resisting the IMF
Sadie Robinson looks at the history of Haiti’s struggle against empire


The suffering of Haiti’s people today is rooted in slavery and imperialism. The Times newspaper has described Haiti as “the unluckiest country” while the racist US evangelical Pat Robertson said that Haitians had “swore a pact to the devil” when they rose up against slavery in the 1790s.

But it is imperialism, not the resistance to it, which has been the problem.

A 17th century treaty, agreed by the European powers, gave the French government the colony of Saint-Domingue (today’s Haiti). This was the western third of a territory that had been grabbed earlier by the Spanish ruling class – the island of Hispaniola.

By the 1780s Saint-Domingue was the most profitable colony in the world, producing sugar, coffee, cotton and tobacco.

Exports from Saint-Domingue made up two thirds of the gross national product of France. It was a larger source of income for its colonial masters than Britain’s 13 North American colonies combined. Saint-Domingue became the world’s single largest producer of coffee and the source for around 75 percent of its sugar. Hundreds of thousands of slaves were hurled into this hell. Death rates were so high that at its worst the colony brought in around 40,000 new slaves a year. On 14 August 1791, the slaves rose up in a great rebellion. They took inspiration from the 1789 French Revolution combined with their own ideas of freedom and justice.

Led by Toussaint L’Ouverture and Jean-Jacques Dessalines, the uprising defeated the slave owners, beat back the French, British and Spanish armies and undermined the whole slave system. The British ruling class had hoped to shift the situation to their advantage and take over Saint Domingue. Their defeat was one of the greatest military disasters in British history, with the British losing 50,000 troops.

Haiti became the world’s first black republic in 1804. But the great powers were determined to punish the country for having the audacity to resist. They feared otherwise that Haiti would become a beacon of struggle, encouraging other slaves and colonies to furious resistance.

The European powers that had devastated Haiti during the wars that followed the slave rebellion now tightened the screw economically. Eventually France agreed that trade could be resumed – but only if its government agreed to pay compensation to the slave owners of 150 million francs (equivalent of about $35 billion today).

Haiti, which should have received recompense for the foul crime of slavery, had to pay its masters! And although the sum was later cut to “only” 90 million francs, Haiti continued to pay until 1947. These payments, along with investment in building up defences through fear of being attacked again, diverted money from the things ordinary people needed. It meant crippling poverty for people in Haiti.

A series of dictatorships ran the country throughout the 19th century. Interference from outside powers intensified as the US increased its dominance in the region.

In order to meet its “debts” to France, the Haitian government had borrowed heavily from US banks. The US invaded Haiti in 1915 and troops occupied it until 1934 in order to police the debt repayments and protect US companies. It left behind a Haitian army which was determined to retain control by an elite, frustrate any movements for change from Haiti’s people and to support US-backed brutal dictatorships. In 1957, with army backing, Francois “Papa Doc” Duvalier became president. He formed a murderous militia, the Tonton Macoutes, that was used to terrorise and slaughter opponents.

Prior to his election, Duvalier used radical rhetoric to win support among Haitian workers. In power, he worked with the head of the army to round up anyone who supported any of his political rivals and carefully destroyed all potential opposition.

In 1959 US Marines intervened to keep Duvalier in power and in 1961 he won one of the most fraudulent elections ever held. The official tally to have his term of office extended to 1967 was 1,320,748 votes to zero.

In 1971, just before his death, “Papa Doc” handed over to his son Jean-Claude “Baby Doc” Duvalier. But the brutality of the regimes, combined with the imposition of neoliberal economic policies, led to growing problems for Duvalier.

Outside interference didn’t only take the form of direct intervention in Haiti’s government. It was also economic. The US in particular pursued a strategy of forcing Haiti to open its economy – with devastating effects.

In 1986 a massive uprising overthrew “Baby Doc”. The revolt began in 1985, when demonstrations and raids on food distribution warehouses swept through the city of Gonaives. By the end of January 1986 protests and riots had spread to several other cities – and the US began to see him as a liability who had to be removed. He left the country in February. The International Monetary Fund (IMF) granted loans to Haiti on the condition that it agreed to structural adjustment programmes.

One agreement instructed Haiti to scrap a law mandating increases in the minimum wage when inflation exceeded 10 percent, further impoverishing Haitian workers.

The agreements prohibited subsidies to Haitian farmers – which would be “intervening” in the free market – while forcing Haiti to open its economy to highly-subsidised US imports. Haitians became dependent on the global food market. Before 1950 Haiti produced more than 80 percent of its own food and also exported food. Today it imports 75 percent of its food.

The horrific consequences of this were seen in 2007 and 2008, when the global price of rice soared and ordinary Haitians found themselves priced out of eating. Riots over food price rises forced out the prime minister, Jacques Edouard Alexis, in April 2008.

The US did very well out of the policies. Between 1986 and 1989 the value of US agricultural exports to Haiti more than doubled from $44 million to $95 million. Meanwhile the poorest in Haiti were driven from the land into miserable urban slums.

Growing hunger in the countryside sparked a wave of emigration to the cities. The population in the capital Port-au-Prince grew from 250,000 to nearly a million in 20 years. More emigrated abroad.

US president Barack Obama has sent troops into Haiti in the aftermath of the earthquake. This “aid” has been sold as a measure to help ordinary people. But the history of US involvement in the country tells a different story.

Troops have gone into Haiti under the cover of humanitarianism time and time again – the outcome has been disastrous for ordinary Haitians. Just as in many other countries – such as Somalia, Iraq and Afghanistan – Western intervention has not solved the poverty and instability that blights the lives of ordinary people. It has entrenched it.

The imperial powers have no benevolent interest in aiding the Haitian people. Their only thought is to continue their control of regions and resources.