Rethinking Permanent Residency

[Matilda]

Going back to the OP's question (lol), the problem as I see it, is that things have become harder and harder regarding residency over the past few years, compared to when I had my first one some 17 years ago. Not only the process, but the need to actually hold residency and not be in the country illegally. I cannot see them getting easier - just harder. So having gone through the major hoops to start it, my advice would be suck it up and keep on going through the smaller hoops - a few days of frustration could save you a whole load of hassles in the future.

Matilda

 

[cobraboy]

Abandoning the US citizenship is quite complicated....look into that

Even forfeiting a Green Card is hard
They want to shadow you for a while

Actually, Alida forfeited her Green Card when it was clear we'd be staying in the DR. It was not hard, just an appointment and interview at the Embassy. The folks with whom she interviewed actually appreciated it, gave her a tourist visa on the spot, and offered assurance she'd be near the top of the waiting list should she re-apply for a Green Card.

 

[william webster]

I ahve learned it varies by citizenship

I had an E-2 visa - 5 yr term
My Swedish friends only got 2yr terms

When the Swede wanted to leave - they shadowed him for 10 yrs...
making sure he wasn't ducking out on a windfall - I guess

 

[Cdn_Gringo]

My experience is that a dual citizen (DR/US) within the DR is viewed by the DR as their citizen. In the US, the same dual citizen is viewed as an American. Generally a citizen of any country that finds themselves dealing with the govt and the local justice system is considered a local national. There may or may not be rules governing which passport you need to use to enter which country but those are of no significance when it comes to determining which country you are a citizen of at the time when that decision needs to be made.

Your other country can opt not to intercede on your behalf simply because you are a local national and their influence over a local national is limited. Sure they may come visit you, make sure that you are being fed and not tortured but apart from that, not much else. Certainly no calls to the minister requesting repatriation etc.

 

[william webster]

and why would you need US intervention if RD is covering you ?

 

[william webster]

Actually, Alida forfeited her Green Card when it was clear we'd be staying in the DR. It was not hard, just an appointment and interview at the Embassy. The folks with whom she interviewed actually appreciated it, gave her a tourist visa on the spot, and offered assurance she'd be near the top of the waiting list should she re-apply for a Green Card.

My forfeiture was in 1980/1.... no bearing on today's world... just cut it in half as the Border guy shrugged

My Greek citizen friend must file a $0/tax return if he is in the US more than 30 days
Canucks have no such rule...

Odd system in the US... a labyrinth of regulations for foreigners

The number of citizenship / passport cancellations ahs shot up recently....
not big number in absolute terms but a gigantic increase as a %

 

[Matilda]

To be honest it is all irrelevant in my experience when it come to dual citizenship. When I was shot, was married to a Dominican and a DR resident. NOT a citizen. Zero help from British Embassy who insisted I was a dual citizen automatically as I was married to a Dominican. That was not true. Not even a phone call or visit.

This latest event, in all of the press I am English and the only ID I had on me was my Dominican cedula saying I am Dominican! Not only that, there have been discussions on the radio about attacking tourists, citing me. So now I am a dual citizen, the Dominicans have decided I am an English tourist, and when I was English, the Brits decided I was Dominican!!

Matilda

 

[chico bill]

To be honest it is all irrelevant in my experience when it come to dual citizenship. When I was shot, was married to a Dominican and a DR resident. NOT a citizen. Zero help from British Embassy who insisted I was a dual citizen automatically as I was married to a Dominican. That was not true. Not even a phone call or visit.

This latest event, in all of the press I am English and the only ID I had on me was my Dominican cedula saying I am Dominican! Not only that, there have been discussions on the radio about attacking tourists, citing me. So now I am a dual citizen, the Dominicans have decided I am an English tourist, and when I was English, the Brits decided I was Dominican!!

Matilda

Dominican + English = Dominish

 

[drstock]

We no longer are living full-time in the DR. We are splitting our time between the US and the DR. (We are not of retirement age yet so still have flexible full-time jobs in the US).

We went down the residency path because we thought it would make things easier for us to come and go and since we have bank accounts and own property it seemed prudent to have "legal" status in the country.

Is it really worth it?

I have an American friend who is in a similar position. He comes a couple of times a year and decided to get Residency after hearing that the authorities were cracking down on Tourist Visa overstayers and thought he would prefer to do the "right" thing. At the same time, he thought he would at least save the $10 tourist visa fee.

He has found the whole thing to be a giant pain and extremely difficult if he can't make the Residency renewal date coincide with his American life. He doesn't even get to save the Tourist fee because it's now included in the air fare and he doesn't want to go through the hassle of recovering it. Overall, he greatly regrets going down the legal Residency route.

 

[mountainannie]

My husband and I started our residency journey in 2013/2014. Just yesterday we transitioned from the temporary to the "permanent" RP-1 residency card. Each year it's a hassle. Dealing with the idiots at Migracion makes my blood boil. For the past 3 years they have screwed something up and we've had to spend a night in SD to return the next day to complete the task.

We no longer are living full-time in the DR. We are splitting our time between the US and the DR. (We are not of retirement age yet so still have flexible full-time jobs in the US).

We went down the residency path because we thought it would make things easier for us to come and go and since we have bank accounts and own property it seemed prudent to have "legal" status in the country.

With all that said, I'm having second thoughts. This yearly renewal business is f*%king insane. So we just got our first RP-1 card that expires in a year. We will then have to renew in 2020 and get a 2-year card. Then in 2022 renew yet again!!! WTF.

Honest question here. Does anyone know exactly what purpose the yearly renewals serve? I'm serious here... we all think it's stupid and pointless but someone actually sat down and wrote these laws. What problem were they fixing. It is really as simple as it's just a money-grab?


Is it really worth it?

I gave up on the residency. I lived there - pretty much full time although I did make regular trips back - for 14 years. When I started the residency process, the law changed three different times while I was in process meaning that I had to go back to the beginning.

Since I already had a bank account, a lease on an apartment, local health insurance and a casa de cambio the only real advantage that I thought I would have to having a legal residency was to have a legal driver's license. (At the time, I think that Europeans could just swap out their EU licenses? But US citizens had to have residency - something like that).. I think one is only legal to drive for 90 days - or maybe even 30 - although the rental car companies had no trouble renting to me whenever.

I think that if I had owned a car there, I would have kept going just to make sure that I was legal driver.. Ditto had I owned property. Technically, I think, even foreigners are protected by all the laws in the DR but I suspected that car insurance companies might well use being out of status an excuse not to pay.

Fortunately, I was never involved in any sort of accident.

 

[SKY]

I have an American friend who is in a similar position. He comes a couple of times a year and decided to get Residency after hearing that the authorities were cracking down on Tourist Visa overstayers and thought he would prefer to do the "right" thing. At the same time, he thought he would at least save the $10 tourist visa fee.

He has found the whole thing to be a giant pain and extremely difficult if he can't make the Residency renewal date coincide with his American life. He doesn't even get to save the Tourist fee because it's now included in the air fare and he doesn't want to go through the hassle of recovering it. Overall, he greatly regrets going down the legal Residency route.

Without your friend reading the crap posted here about overstays he would have been a lot better off. Anyone that comes and goes with really no ties to the DR would be well served to just come and pay the overstay fee like the tens of thousands of others that do not read DR1.

 

[Dr_Taylor]

When do you qualify for four-year residency?

The issue with the citizenship route from the US perspective...someone correct me if I have it wrong...is the US does not recognize dual-citizenship except is certain situations like marriage. If you do not qualify for an exception, you have to surrender your US citizenship.

Maybe playacaribe2 can offer his legal perspective since he's dealt with both sides.

No, you do NOT have to renounce U.S. citizenship. The High Court addressed this many years ago. Moreover, you have no obligation to tell the U.S. Government that you hold other citizenship(s).

 

[Dr_Taylor]

One important point for those of you who are legal residents and or also citizens of the DR, and are also US citizens.

If you need or request certain intervention assistance from the US embassy based on your US citizenship, be aware that because of your status as a resident or citizen of the DR, they may decline to intercede based on the fact that you are a resident or citizen of the DR and should avail yourself within their judicial structures.

Allow me to clarify this. If you hold dual citizenship, e.g., US and DR, and find yourself in legal jeopardy in one country, e.g., DR, then the DR may deny you access to US consular services. The US may very well desire to assist; however, the DR lacks an obligation under the Hague Conventions to let the US know that you remain in legal jeopardy. This occasionally happens in other countries, e.g., US/Iranian dual citizens who travel to Iran and get detained for having made anti-Iranian statements in the press.

 

[Dr_Taylor]

As far as abandoning US citizenship, if you have any money to speak of you have to wait 10 years to do that. Does not matter if dual or regular. US law.

You do not have to wait 10 years to renounce, you have to wait 10 years to be free from Federal Income Tax obligations.

 

[Dr_Taylor]

There are quite a few countries that, if you want to become a citizen there, you have to renounce US citizenship. I think the US should do the same.

The US Supreme Court already addressed this. The Federal Government cannot "force speech." It cannot force you to renounce. It can only revoke it in very, very limited circumstances.

 

[malko]

I started a thread on "wills" ( heritage stuff ), a couple of weeks back. I went through with it and got it done at a notarial lawyer ( who then registers with the competent tribunals and ayunamento ). Basically making sure that if, god forbid, my wife passes away, all her possessions---especially prior
to the wedding----- get passed on to me, and not her family ( we have no children ).

Anyhow, I asked what would happen if i ( or we ) decided to go back and live in europe, and i decided to not renew residency anymore, as far as house and land, etc...were concerned.
The notarial lawyer told us that was not a problem, as a foreign citizen has the exact same rights ( and obligations ) with or w/o residency, as a dominican citizen in the eyes of the dominican law.

Do double check before doing something important, as personnal situations may differ ( i am married to a dr citizen, married in the dr ).

 

[william webster]

We can go on & on about the benefits and draw backs of residency.... and do so regularly

But if/when the feces hits the proverbial fan ----------

The waltz thru the residency process will look like a cake walk
compared to the legal system jousting

I wouldn't wish that on anyone

 

[william webster]

You do not have to wait 10 years to renounce, you have to wait 10 years to be free from Federal Income Tax obligations.

Correct Doc....

That's what I meant by shadowing you

Like the song...
You can check out - but never leave

10 yrs of surveillance on departure... still in the shadow

 

[SKY]

You do not have to wait 10 years to renounce, you have to wait 10 years to be free from Federal Income Tax obligations.

To me that is the same thing.

 

[malko]

We can go on & on about the benefits and draw backs of residency.... and do so regularly

But if/when the feces hits the proverbial fan ----------

The waltz thru the residency process will look like a cake walk
compared to the legal system jousting

I wouldn't wish that on anyone

Sadly-----for us------ residency or not, citizenship or not, in the dr we will always be a foreigner. It doesnt seem to work like in north america/europe where once you are a citizen, you are one of us.
The legal system can ( not will ) be a bitch, legal, illegal or citizen. Take the odds, place your bet.
Down the road, next week or in 10 years.....dr gvt can decide US residents here are a pain, draft up constitution # 23 121, throw them all out and give you 2 cents to the dollar on your house and land, be you a resident, an " illegal" or a citizen.
That's just the name of the game in countries with not-to-stable goverments.