There is hope for the 'old continent'
It was just announced today in the local news that births in 2004 ROSE BY 4% in Belgium. Wow!
It was just announced today in the local news that births in 2004 ROSE BY 4% in Belgium. Wow!
- Thread starter Robert
- Start date
Santo Domingo - Gay Capital of The Caribbean?
Well, wouldn't you know, just today I received the Become a Homosexual and Get Your Toaster promotion on the mail.Anna Coniglio said:
Homosexuality can't be promoted any more than heterosexuality can. Do any of you remember having made your mind about what you wanted to be? I don't remember, we are all what we are.Pib,
Fierce promoter of tolerance... except when it comes to bureaucrats... cause we all know bureaucrats are the spawns of Satan. :tired:
Maybe you're not aware yet, but in the DR, and probably influenced by our Taino heritage, sexual practices are very loosely gender preference defined.
Mirador
Mirador, can you elaborate on that a little bit? What do you mean by it? It sounds controversial and interesting.
Mirador
Mirador, can you elaborate on that a little bit? What do you mean by it? It sounds controversial and interesting.
juancarlos said:
I'm sure that this really isn't relevant to whether Santo Domingo is becoming the Gay capitol of the Caribbean, but, it just seems to me that unless you come from a judeo-muslim-christian indigenous cultural, sexual practices don't take on the same intense self-righteous moral judgment considerations. Also, and again not vouching relevancy, the idea floating on this thread that homosexuality has an adverse affect on population growth is ridiculous. Homosexual practices have been indulged in from the begining of time and have yet to demonstrate any measurable affect on stemming the constant increase in world population.
Santo Domingo is no more or less gay than any other vibrant city in the world. That the gay population there feels empowered enough to express themselves should be welcomed, embraced, and applauded.
I agree with RonS.
Anyways who cares who you want to f@ck......people should spend more time doing that than a)worrying about what everyone else is doing and b) killing off the ones that they disagree with. it's not as if there are roving bands of recruiters trying to get us to switch to the other team. Come on!
The first time I was in San Pedro de Macoris circa 1985/86, I saw one of the BEST drag shows ever - at first I really thought they were women! Hell, I live in boystown in T.O. and have seen almost all types, but these guys beat them hands down.....er...maybe not such a great choice of words.
Anyways who cares who you want to f@ck......people should spend more time doing that than a)worrying about what everyone else is doing and b) killing off the ones that they disagree with. it's not as if there are roving bands of recruiters trying to get us to switch to the other team. Come on!
The first time I was in San Pedro de Macoris circa 1985/86, I saw one of the BEST drag shows ever - at first I really thought they were women! Hell, I live in boystown in T.O. and have seen almost all types, but these guys beat them hands down.....er...maybe not such a great choice of words.
Dont get mad at me
The reason tha Santo Domingo is getting a lot gay is because is a capital city and all the gay from Puerto Plata, Santiago, Moca and la Romana are moving down to Santo Domingo where the other gays are. Gays club outside Santo Domingo are not the same.
Im lesbian from Santo Domingo, Sorry guys if I didnt say the true before I just married my partner a few month ago. "I love woman" and now I live in the Gay hood in Toronto.
I do respect them because you never know who your son or daughter or niece are going to be. then you have to deal with it
Cheers all gay and lesbian
The reason tha Santo Domingo is getting a lot gay is because is a capital city and all the gay from Puerto Plata, Santiago, Moca and la Romana are moving down to Santo Domingo where the other gays are. Gays club outside Santo Domingo are not the same.
Im lesbian from Santo Domingo, Sorry guys if I didnt say the true before I just married my partner a few month ago. "I love woman" and now I live in the Gay hood in Toronto.
I do respect them because you never know who your son or daughter or niece are going to be. then you have to deal with it
Cheers all gay and lesbian
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Astounding! 1 million openly gay people? Hmmm............ so this means that 1 out of 10 new yorkers are gay. The figure is probably a lot higher if closet gays are put into the equation. Now, what surpirses me about the relatively large gay population in the DR, is that most predominately latin countries aren't high up on acceptance of gays. In the english speaking carribean, even worse! Jamaica for example is amomng the most homophobic societies on the planet. Interesting indeed...........jrzyguy said:
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carl ericson70 said:
Yes Carl...1 in 10 is the usual number quoted as far as the gay population. I am not sure if that includes all the people who live in the closet. Hell....the guy that i was seeing for 2 years on a steady basis doesnt consider himself gay. To quote "I am no gay..i only have sex with you because you are my friend". (he's dominican...go figure
Someone else earlier meantioned biological vs. choice. I am not a scientist...but i truly believe i was born this way. I had crushes on other boys (and men) ever since i can remember. And physicaly it just feels natural to me. (i have been with women...but that always felt forced and basicaly unatural to me). I do believe there has been studys done on the "gay gene" .
As far as choice is concerned...i believe one chooses to accept oneself and make the most of the cards that life has dealt us. I am MAN first....and i accept the fact that i am gay and i choose to live my life as such. I hope that people like me and judge me as a person...not for who i sleap with.
One has to remember that there is a self-selecting process here. If one is gay one would probably like to move to a place where tolerance is the rule, not the exception. Besides the fact that there is more of an argument to be made in support of remaining in the closet if you live somewhere like Kingston.jrzyguy said:
Latin America is a diverse "continent". Some places are more tolerant than others, I believe Argentina leading the pack, where, IIRC, gay couples can legalize their situation in some sort of domestic partnership union, something that a few "more advanced" countries have not even achieved yet. Brazil seems pretty tolerant too, specially compared to other Latin countries.
carl ericson70 said:
Good observation. All I can tell you is that there is a lot of homosesuxual activity in Latin countries. Unlike the US culture where you are either straight or you are not, and if you are straight you have no sexual attraction for your own sex, in Latin culture it is not that clear cut, in spite of the strong anti-homosexual feelings that exist. This applies particularly to the male sex. Many men who engage in homosexual activities or who did at one time or another or may still do so on occasions, don't think of themselves as homosexuals, not even bisexual, because they are basically attracted to women and have had girlfriends, or wives or are married. At least this is their reasoning. Most of this activity takes place in their youth and it tends to taper off or disapear as they mature or fall in love with a woman for good. However, in some other cases, this is a life long characteristic as long as the are sexually active, but even in those cases, they still refuse to accept the fact that they are anything but straight. At least, they do not want to be identified with the out of the closet population. Another factor to consider is the type of sexual activity they engage in with other males: if they are the "penetrator" , they still can have their macho pride intact- or even enhanced by these encounters- and in the case of the lower classes, even brag about them when they are among friends. Another aspect to consider is that although these are Catholic societies, it is not guilt that predominates or takes away sleep, but rather it is fear and shame. Fear of losing face, personal or family honor, fear of losing their manly or macho reputation etc. if they are found out or cought literally with their pants down, particularly if they were found in the bent over position or with "something" in their mouths. I should add that even those who accept their homosexuality, still maintain a preference for either insertive or receptive partners. On this issue, they tend to be more defined or consistent than their Anglo counterparts. While Anglos are more defined and clear when it comes to sexual orientation.
There is also a lot, a lot of homosexuality, homosexual activity and acknowleged bisexuality among the upper classes. Many of these men still marry because they have to, because it is expected of them or because they want to in order to have a respectable family and pass on their names and properties to their descendants. Still, this segment of the population enjoys more freedom and there are many admitted gays among them. Particularly among the young.
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This is a really good conversation and I have gained a great deal of insight from everyones' posts. I'd like to go back to something that was mentioned earlier and I would like others to comment: is the growing acceptance of homosexuality, atleast in the capitol, related to the fact that indigenous Dominican culture is not Judeo-Muslim-Christian based? Admittedly, the Catholic Church has done it's usual fine job at superimposing it's christian practices in the DR. But, could it be that the self-righteous moral attitudes against homosexuality existent in the Temple, Mosque, and Church have only had a superficial hold on Dominican society, and that the recent world-wide liberalization of attitudes has given the gay population in SD an opening to express themselves?
RonS said:
Interesting point ron. One thing i forgot to meantion is that there are many men on men relationships going on where the men involved do not consider themselves GAY. For many men...they equate gay as being out, loud and proud....a very nyc, san fran, euro thing. Many macho closeted men also only think that gay mean transvestites and effeminate men.....who want be a woman. I personaly, as a gay man, am not INTO trannies....but i also do not look down upon them. I dont understand that desire...as i am sure many heterosexual people dont understand my own desires and needs.
I really dont understand the "fear factor" regarding gays and lesbians. I dont really see how we undermine society and pose any real threat to family and traditional values. Look at massachusetts....where gay marriage was recently legalized. Sure there was a rush for marriage licences at first.....then it dwindled to a trickle...and i am sure the population growth is just fine.
If people just accepted their gay and lesbian brothers, sisters, family members, neighbors, co-workers etc.....then it wouldnt be such a big deal....and the behavior that many consider abhorent and deviant would dwindle....if we are treated as normal....then we ACT and behave normal!!! its that simple. Treat us like outcasts and freaks....then well...who's to blame many, especialy young people, for acting out in outlandish ways?
I personaly do NOT like what i see in the DR for the gay scene. The only out guys are totaly queeny....the others are sankie...and then there are the guys who want to express themselves sexualy with another man....but have to totaly live on the DL.
I am sure this will not totaly change in my life (i just turned 40). But who knows...i never thought i would see legal gay marriage in the us (and YES..it is legal in mass!!)
jrzyguy said:
I really appreciate your comments jrzyguy and I agree totally with you. I believe that things are changing for the better, and, like people of color and women, gays, lesbians, bisexuals and transgendereds will one day be afforded the dignity that all people deserve. In the meantime, it is good to know that there is a gay population in the Dominican Republic that is neither quenny nor sankie. Hopefully, they will begin to live thier lives on the up high [UH] instead of on the down low [DL].
Euros
Sadly, everywhere euros go around the planet their degenerate behavior follows them. Whether in Amerikkka or any other western euro country homosexuality is always promoted and accepted by euros. In the DR or any other island euros must molest native boys and try to equate homosexuality with traditional/natural male-female relationships.
Sadly, everywhere euros go around the planet their degenerate behavior follows them. Whether in Amerikkka or any other western euro country homosexuality is always promoted and accepted by euros. In the DR or any other island euros must molest native boys and try to equate homosexuality with traditional/natural male-female relationships.
nubian4eva said:
What the heck are you talking about nubian?
I dont think this thread had any meantion of pedophila....which is a whole different issue. Pedofiles generaly do not identify with being gay...and the whole issue is generaly regarded as a psychelogical issue..rather than a sexual issue. Pedophiles generaly do not care if they are molesting a boy or a girl....it is usualy an issue of power and control...not sex.
and FINALy....in the US and Europe...homosexuality is NOT promoted...but rather people are learning to be accepting of "alternative" lifestyles.
IF homosexuality was a choice....who in their right mind would choose it??? why CHOOSE to be insulted, discriminated against, hated, reviled etc???? NO...the choice is accpeting oneself and loving oneself and carrying oneself with pride and dignity and honor amidst the ignorance and hatred in this world.
I dont think i am going to respond to this thread any more. It has become a non dominican thread....but i do thank all of those who have replied. It is quiet obvious that my brothers and sisters still have a long way to go before we are treated as equals in this world. I think the majority is behind us and support us......but it is the minority of haters that kill us, defile us and still scare the bejesus out of me.
nubian4eva said:
I am not a 'euro' and I certainly don't believe that 'euros' promote homosexuality or molest native boys. The idea that euros and gays promote molestation of native boys is outrageous and baseless. There are homosexual criminals and there are heterosexual criminals. There are homosexual sankies and there are heterosexual sankies. There are good and decent and righteous homosexuals and there are good and decent and righteous heterosexuals. It has nothing to do with sexual orientation. It has all to do with the heart and soul of each individual. As Dr. King said forty years ago, I want my children to be "judged by the content of thier character"! I could care less whether they are straight or gay.
Furthermore, if you look at the world realistically, it would be very difficult to define 'traditional/natural male-female relationshps'. To superimpose your idea of what is 'traditional/natural' on someone else is simply wrong. I am certainly glad that 'traditional/natural' notions of male superiority over females, and 'traditional/natural' notions of white superiority over blacks and other peoples of color, did not succeed, and I pray that 'traditional/natural' notions of sexuality smilarly finds the way to the trash heap of history.
And I say again, that the gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgendered population of the Dominican Republic has found Santo Domingo to be a place where they can be themselves and not be judged by who they share thier bed with is a good thing, and everyone should welcome and accept them as members of the human family in the same way everyone else would want to be accepted and welcomed.
PS
jrzyguy: We in the Civil Rights Movement learned a long time ago that the way to win the war against ignorance and oppression is to make the ignorant oppressor know they are ignorant and oppressive and to show them that righteousness requires that they love everyone in the spirit of the God [however named] who created them and everyone else! Be not dismayed, what is right will be victorious in the end. Besides, the folks in the DR need our support. The beauty of this thread and of DR1 in general is that it has really informed me of how Dominicans deal with this issue. I am grateful for your insights.
jrzyguy: We in the Civil Rights Movement learned a long time ago that the way to win the war against ignorance and oppression is to make the ignorant oppressor know they are ignorant and oppressive and to show them that righteousness requires that they love everyone in the spirit of the God [however named] who created them and everyone else! Be not dismayed, what is right will be victorious in the end.
Besides, the folks in the DR need our support. The beauty of this thread and of DR1 in general is that it has really informed me of how Dominicans deal with this issue. I am grateful for your insights.Thank you jrzyguy and Ron S for your succint comments. It's attitudes and ignorance like the one we just read a few posts back that propegate homophobia.
I stated earlier I live in "boystown" - the gay neighbourhood in Toronto, and I choose to live there because the people are great primarily, it's a very very safe downtown neighbourhood in which people take a lot of pride. We have I believe the second or third largest gay population in North America, as well as a very large Pride Celebration every year, as well as marriage and now access to pension benefits for the surviving partner (widow/widdower). In fact one of the residents in my building was key in getting the government to change that.
People should just try and get along because why should it matter who you choose to love. The world needs more of that and less intolerance.
I stated earlier I live in "boystown" - the gay neighbourhood in Toronto, and I choose to live there because the people are great primarily, it's a very very safe downtown neighbourhood in which people take a lot of pride. We have I believe the second or third largest gay population in North America, as well as a very large Pride Celebration every year, as well as marriage and now access to pension benefits for the surviving partner (widow/widdower). In fact one of the residents in my building was key in getting the government to change that.
People should just try and get along because why should it matter who you choose to love. The world needs more of that and less intolerance.