Santo Domingo - Total Darkeness!

[planner]

cobraboy - I agree with HB - as foreigners we learn to adapt and accept the things we really cannot change.

For me in Puerto Plata it means living in a neighbourhood that has access to Puerto Plata Electricidad - the private electrical plant that supplies Playa Dorada Hotels. We very rarely have a power outage! It costs slightly more then Ede Norte so I am happy about that too.

For other things I have learned to work the system, to deal with the time wastes and hassles. The biggest frustration for me is Verizon but that belongs in its own thread.............

 

[cobraboy]

cobraboy - I agree with HB - as foreigners we learn to adapt and accept the things we really cannot change.

For me in Puerto Plata it means living in a neighbourhood that has access to Puerto Plata Electricidad - the private electrical plant that supplies Playa Dorada Hotels. We very rarely have a power outage! It costs slightly more then Ede Norte so I am happy about that too.

For other things I have learned to work the system, to deal with the time wastes and hassles. The biggest frustration for me is Verizon but that belongs in its own thread.............

planner and HB:

I recognize that until I ask and receive citizenship, I am (and nmost likely will always be) a guest and always conduct myself in that manner. There is little I can do, or really want to do other than chatting with friends. The DR gets to choose how it operates; no one asks me (or any of us).

'Course I feel the same way about furriners in the US. Get citizenship, then stand in line to complain...

 

[planner]

planner and HB:

I recognize that until I ask and receive citizenship, I am (and nmost likely will always be) a guest and always conduct myself in that manner. There is little I can do, or really want to do other than chatting with friends. The DR gets to choose how it operates; no one asks me (or any of us).

'Course I feel the same way about furriners in the US. Get citizenship, then stand in line to complain...

I wish more "furriners" felt that way cobraboy. I find it quite embarassing when foreigners proceed to not only B***h regularly but also to tell locals how to fix this country, or, better yet how they did it at home......

Yes we are guests here. But even when we have citizenship we shouldn't spend our time complaining but rather being constructive and working towards change.

 

[Robert]

planner and HB:

I recognize that until I ask and receive citizenship, I am (and nmost likely will always be) a guest and always conduct myself in that manner. There is little I can do, or really want to do other than chatting with friends. The DR gets to choose how it operates; no one asks me (or any of us).

'Course I feel the same way about furriners in the US. Get citizenship, then stand in line to complain...

Remember, this site is read by lots of locals, not just expats.
Our news has a 20% local subscription base, many of these Dominicans
in business or in political/government positions, yes, I get to see the subscriber list Maybe, just maybe, it we might help nudge a few Dominicans into action and help just a little in moving this country in the right direction.

DR1 does and has done a very good job of promoting the Dominican Republic. My guess is we have done more than any other media outlet over the last 10 years. Remember, you don't get to see everything we are involved in, tourist publications, brochures, magazines, business writing etc etc.

Some of us in our own way have made a very positive and impactful contributions to this country, this is why we say what we say and voice our opinions.

 

[planner]

Really good points Robert!!! And of course you are correct, this site does so much more then just inform ......

 

[canadian bob]

I see the country as a 'day to day' society. That means that the country as a whole lives day to day. They've never had a government in place that gave them hope for the future and as such if you don't have hope for the future then you take the most you can today.

Most third world societies work this way. How do you get an electrical infrastructure when no one has the vision to make it happen?

What the country needs is a new age FDR. They need a public works campaign where the government puts the masses to work building an infrustructure that will support the country in the future.

You're never going to stop corruption in government. Every government has it, but you may be able to channel that corruption in to something that actually helps the masses.

Jackieboo, your post is succinct and insightful. Unfortunately it does not give much hope for change in the near future. Canadian Bob

 

[Snuffy]

Robert, what has gotten into you lately. You going negative on this country?

Everyone seems to think that if someone uses power they should pay and that will help fix the problem. Even near where I once lived in a nice part of Santiago...I knew middle class people who had their meters tampered with in order to save money. So I know there is a lot of theft that goes on. On the other hand, I see the subsidies to the barrios as the flip side to sharing so little of the wealth with them. "Continue to allow us to profit the most from this country and we will throw you some free power bones." They know just how much they can squeeze the masses. And those plantas and inverters are big business in this country. You would **** some very wealthy people off if suddenly their machines were no longer needed. No, gotta throw in some blackouts from time to time. All the batteries....all the maintenance on these machines...the installations.

 

[Snuffy]

And AZB can I go to Colombia with you? I have been once. Beautiful country. Love hiking through the high mountain town in dense fog early morning or late evening. Try friend ants.

 

[Snuffy]

fried ants.

 

[AZB]

There was a time when electric was given to poor barrios for a fixed low price of like 150 pesos / month. This meant a poor family would pay that minimum amount to get lights most of the day with minimum black outs. This amount was calculated if you lived in a small house or a shack with 1 or 2 light bulbs and a small fridge and a fan. This seemed like a fair calculation at the time. So now everyone would pay and electric problem would be over. right? no, WRONG!
All of the sudden the electric consumption went up in barrios. Transformers started to get burnt down and power was sucked in to the barrio at an alarming rate. What was happening? upon investigation, turns out that most houses had switched from gas stoves to electric stoves. why pay for gas tanks when you can cook with electric stoves? remember folks, electric stoves are electric guzzlers. One electric stove consumes more than whole medium sized house in a good area. many people even had a/c connected and turned on 24/7.
This send the whole subsidized electric plan for the poor, out the window.
AZB

 

[AZB]

Snuffy I would love to take you to colombia with me, but but, what if you get kidnapped, I am sure they will carry my ass with you to the mountian as well. Who the hell would pay my ransom?
I know what I will do. I will become dominican. I will say " no fui yo, el no esta conmigo, no lo conosco, el esta hablando conmigo, pero eso no es mi culpa". hablamos luego mi pana, ya me voy.
AZB

 

[SantiagoDR]

Talk about "Total Darkness"

Being in the dark, never more.

... and God said, "Let there be light!"

If I were ever to build a new house, I would build it next to one of the top officials of EdeNorte.

 

[Ogre of the Caribbean]

I know I'm going to sound like Golo but...

I see the country as a 'day to day' society. That means that the country as a whole lives day to day. They've never had a government in place that gave them hope for the future and as such if you don't have hope for the future then you take the most you can today.

Most third world societies work this way. How do you get an electrical infrastructure when no one has the vision to make it happen?

What the country needs is a new age FDR. They need a public works campaign where the government puts the masses to work building an infrustructure that will support the country in the future.

You're never going to stop corruption in government. Every government has it, but you may be able to channel that corruption in to something that actually helps the masses.

The DR had a kind of FDR figure from 1930 to 1961. He name was Rafael Leonidas Molina Trujillo. Trujillo mobilized the entire population and built, practically from nothing, a modern and efficient infrastructure. The electricity was always on. Everything worked and everything was efficient. The DR was a humming machine. The civil service was efficient. Trujillo would often spy on government civil servants and fire any of them that did not look like they were working hard enough.

However, the price was rather high. A totalitarian state with a cult of personality that resembled North Korea's government more than any other country on the face of the earth. One DR1 poster, a Dominican, wondered(2-3 years ago) if that is what it takes to have an effective government, a dictator that frightens everyone.

Even some of my Dominican friends, people who lived during the Era of Trujillo and opposed him said things to me like, "Trujillo would never tolerate anything lke this."

Perhaps if the electricity and crime situation continues, someone like Candilier will be elected.

The Dominicans did have a modern and efficient country in the past. It is not beyond the ability of Dominicans to restore what they once had. Dominicans have shown that they can run an efficient government.

I've always wondered why the Dominicans tolerate such corrupt and inept governments? Perhaps the severe electricity problems and the crime spike will lead to positive changes in thinking. But I'm not going to hold my breath.

One last thing, I'm not calling for a return to the Era of Trujillo, I was just pointing out the the DR did run efficiently in the past, so that it could be run efficiently in the future.

 

[NALs]

double post.

 

[NALs]

Robert, what has gotten into you lately. You going negative on this country?

It must be the "going abroad effect".

Every time he makes a trip outside of the DR, he returns to the DR and go on a "rampage" for months after such trip.

The truth is this, many of these expatriates are really saying one thing.....

I'm not adapting to the Dominican way of doing things, despite the fact that I thought I could.

The solution to this "problem" is one of the following:

1. Move out of DR (highly unlikely for those who truly like the country)

or

2. Move to the "other DR" of certain private gated communities where amenities are available 24/7!

There are various types of DR, you just need to know where to look for the type that you want and then, be willing to make the move.

-NALs

 

[macocael]

I wouldnt go so far as to say that Dominicans had a modern and efficient state in the past, that is a bit of an exaggeration. They used to say that Mussolini had the trains running on time. That sort of thing and the wistful "That would never happen in the days of Trujillo" that you so often hear are really just delusory. No doubt Trujillo made things run more efficiently, and he was a real stickler for details, apparently. But the country was a much simpler place then, and Trujillo's touted economic rigor was apparently something of a charade. The system today is messier; we have a nascent, very flawed democracy and an imperfect capitalist system here that is heavily influenced by the socioeconomic patterns of the past, so it is very hard to break free of that past and develop in an efficient and equitable manner. The corruption and violence in the society that everyone complains about is not a new development or something imported from outside; it is directly attributable to the historic patterns of this country -- it is just that once Trujillo got things well in hand, the violence and corruption were all centralized and overseen by this caudillo to end all caudillos. To compare him, even loosely, to FDR is to make a really bad analogy.

 

[macocael]

And I agree with Robert, the electricity problem may never be solved, at least not in our lifetime.

 

[NALs]

I wouldnt go so far as to say that Dominicans had a modern and efficient state in the past, that is a bit of an exaggeration. They used to say that Mussolini had the trains running on time. That sort of thing and the wistful "That would never happen in the days of Trujillo" that you so often hear are really just delusory. No doubt Trujillo made things run more efficiently, and he was a real stickler for details, apparently. But the country was a much simpler place then, and Trujillo's touted economic rigor was apparently something of a charade. The system today is messier; we have a nascent, very flawed democracy and an imperfect capitalist system here that is heavily influenced by the socioeconomic patterns of the past, so it is very hard to break free of that past and develop in an efficient and equitable manner. The corruption and violence in the society that everyone complains about is not a new development or something imported from outside; it is directly attributable to the historic patterns of this country -- it is just that once Trujillo got things well in hand, the violence and corruption were all centralized and overseen by this caudillo to end all caudillos. To compare him, even loosely, to FDR is to make a really bad analogy.

I'm going to have to agree with Macocael on this one.

Despite the fact that Trujillo's regime did imposed the longest stretch of peace in a country that was rife with guerilla warfare and went about implementing an industrialization plan that created an economy to speak of, Trujillo's government was not truly efficient and the infrastructure he built was not the most modern.

Trujillo's government was (and legacy of this continues) extremely central. For even the tiniest official document a person had to travel to Ciudad Trujillo. Of course, the country was hardly populated with people back then, but it was certainly not efficient. The patrimonialism and clientelism habit of the government were cemented under his rule and whatever middle class evolved was exclusively tied to the civil service sector. For this reason, Ciudad Trujillo was home to almost 100% of the middle class created under Trujillo.

Regarding the infrastructure, he certainly modernized the country compared to the underdeveloped backwater it was prior to his governance. However, the infrastructure Trujillo put in place was not too efficient. The infrastructure was developed according to the priorities of the government and that was decided by how would be best to extract the resources of the country for export. For this reason Trujillo ended to passenger train that used to connect all the major Cibao towns and re-directed much of the train tracks to the exclusive hauling of sugar cane from the plantations to the major trade centers of each region and from there, they were shipped to C. Trujillo to be exported.

In fact, this practice still exist today in the DR and explains much of why infrastructure is so uneven.

Now, let's get back to topic.

-NALs

 

[Robert]

Robert, what has gotten into you lately. You going negative on this country?

It's one of those stages

This is also why we have avoided doing a Mangu Minute the past 4-6 weeks.

 

[Robert]

It must be the "going abroad effect".

Every time he makes a trip outside of the DR, he returns to the DR and go on a "rampage" for months after such trip.

The truth is this, many of these expatriates are really saying one thing.....

I'm not adapting to the Dominican way of doing things, despite the fact that I thought I could.

The solution to this "problem" is one of the following:

1. Move out of DR (highly unlikely for those who truly like the country)

or

2. Move to the "other DR" of certain private gated communities where amenities are available 24/7!

There are various types of DR, you just need to know where to look for the type that you want and then, be willing to make the move.

-NALs

And this good advice is coming from someone that doesn't even live here.

It's not about adapting NAL's, it's about seeing a future for Dominicans and those of us that choose to live and work here. Those of us that pay our taxes and work to promote the DR and make it a better country for all.

I have an inverter and live in a building that has a planta, the electricity problem is a minor inconvenience to me compared to many other poor people.

NAL's, sometimes you make the most unfounded and idiotic posts I have ever seen on DR1....