Spike protection for electrical items

Yachtguy1

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Sep 30, 2008
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Hmmmm....

As far as I know, there are no dealers who specialize in residential iso-boost transformers/line conditioners in the DR at the moment, and to tell you the truth they are EXPENSIVE as hell comparatively. (Minimum $900.00 US for anything worth a damn)

In layman's terms, what they do is totally ISOLATE the street service from the house service by a set of opposed windings which are not connected directly. The secondary windings on the output side draw power from the "field" in the center of these windings, which corrects any surges, spikes, ground faults and overcurrent/undercurrent problems from the input side. The better units (CVT [constant voltage transformer]) have a tank capacitor which allows for low voltage compensation to produce clean 120V power REGARDLESS of the street voltage (within 25% normally). Also, these units actually create a new ground inside the unit at the field which is totally isolated from the street ground, so in essence you could theoretically hook up only the "hot" and "neutral" wires on the primary (street) side and ground your entire house to the transformer. The only problem here is that if you had a case fault on the primary side, the case of the unit would become "hot", so it is best to separately ground the case with a spike if your main service ground is dicey.

JD has a point with the whole house surge suppressor, though this will not correct low voltage issues at all. Also, your inverter should have a cutout for high voltage as well as the low voltage (usually 5%), so that if your voltage spikes or surges beyond this range, it will switch to inversion mode (just like in a low voltage situation).

Additionally, the isolation transformer really limits damage potential from surges and spikes generated from within the home, as flourescent lights, motors, compressors, etc that usually cause intra-circuit spiking or surging usually do this when there is either low voltage present or poor quality line condition. And if you have a single/poly phase (240/120) application, the isolation transformer minimizes the potential for a dropped neutral to "fry" your components on one of the "hot" legs as well, as it will simply shut down if the street side neutral drops out. But ALWAYS keep in mind that if one of your compressor or other AC motors in the house has a shorted winding, you will be passing potential to the neutral which could also damage your sensitive electronics. A surge suppressor WILL NOT detect this problem, so the best way to protect yourself from a neutral bleed is to install a GFCI main outlet or an ARCI main breaker.

The breakers on your inverter are likely overcurrent protection for your battery charging and inversion circuits and have nothing to do with the subject at hand.

For all you electrical engineers, I said "layman's terms.!!!" LOL
 

Yachtguy1

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Sep 30, 2008
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Sorry all

I suppose what I am trying to say is that when a person experiences a "surge", they immediately buy a cheap surge protection solution, only to have a "brownout" fry their sensitive electronics. They then wonder why the surge protector didn't work. They look to their DR inverter which doesn't have a thing to do with either...after which their refrigerator compressor shorts a winding in the compressor and sends potential to their electronics...

Six weeks and several thousand later they wonder what the hell they could have done to prevent all this...

In short, the DR presents SEVERAL problems, of which each of the cheap, non-compliant systems we are discussing here only address ONE of the problems...frustrating, I am sure. Here are the problems at hand:

1. Bad/no ground
2. Surges/spikes
3. low voltage
4. Brownouts
5. Leaking neutrals
6. Dropped neutrals

NO WAY you are going to protect against the evils of the DR power grid without a comprehensive plan going in...it's kinda like car insurance; if you only have liability, guaranteed you will have a collision that is not your fault and the other guy isn't insured...
 

Luperon

Who empowered China's crime against humanity?
Jun 28, 2004
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I suppose what I am trying to say is that when a person experiences a "surge", they immediately buy a cheap surge protection solution, only to have a "brownout" fry their sensitive electronics. They then wonder why the surge protector didn't work. They look to their DR inverter which doesn't have a thing to do with either...after which their refrigerator compressor shorts a winding in the compressor and sends potential to their electronics...

Six weeks and several thousand later they wonder what the hell they could have done to prevent all this...

In short, the DR presents SEVERAL problems, of which each of the cheap, non-compliant systems we are discussing here only address ONE of the problems...frustrating, I am sure. Here are the problems at hand:

1. Bad/no ground
2. Surges/spikes
3. low voltage
4. Brownouts
5. Leaking neutrals
6. Dropped neutrals

NO WAY you are going to protect against the evils of the DR power grid without a comprehensive plan going in...it's kinda like car insurance; if you only have liability, guaranteed you will have a collision that is not your fault and the other guy isn't insured...

Assuming you have a properly wired house and a prosine xantrex inverter Xantrex Technology Inc. - Boats - Prosine 3.0 - Product Information .... does one have all bases covered?

This is getting scary.
 

Yachtguy1

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Sep 30, 2008
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Not trying to scare you

Just a reality check. Question: Has anyone engineered a system free of ALL of these problems? I assure you this is possible, though in some cases STUPID expensive...

If you have the precise model listed in the link you sent me (3000W 24V TRUE SINE WAVE, then you would have had to have spent at least $2,000.00 if you bought it in the USA, and more like $3,000.00 in the DR), then you have a decent inverter. DO NOT confuse this with the JUNK being sold in the DR for $500.00, labeled from the same manufacturer.

So, if this is the case, you have potentially solved your low voltage/brownout (below 105V) situation, and your high voltage (above 135V) situation (though Xantrex has switching technology which might not protect you from very fast spikes).

What you have NOT solved are intra-circuit (within the house, AFTER the inverter) surges and spikes, no/bad ground, shorted or dropped neutrals, and leaking neutrals (bad motor windings) inside the house.

If you don't have the budget to put a transformer in the house, Be CERTAIN that your main ground is good (I agree with TRACK on this, that this can be confusing) then install an AFCI main Breaker (less than $80.00) or a GFCI outlet (less than $30.00, though this will require you to be SURE all your outlets are on the same circuit) a couple of reasonable surge protectors...and you should sleep better...

If you have a DR model Xantrex or a newer CR model (thanks, ROCKY, for the heads up) then you are back to square wave one...
 

Yachtguy1

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Sep 30, 2008
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Properly wired house

Luperon, I have NEVER seen what I would consider a "properly wired house" anywhere outside the high-end developments anywhere in the entire country... Unless the owner did it themselves.

Correct wiring schemes are totally lost on the residential electricians in country. Only in large, commercial applications (hospitals, resorts, etc.) have I ever seen anything resembling "proper" wiring... Sorry.

Even then, the generators never seem to work properly and the fit/finish is horrendous. Below please see one of our SIMPLEST battery charger installations... ABC, 123

http://rudderpost.ehost-services139.com/professionalmarine/images/BatteryChargerInstall.jpg