The Bad Guys Won!!!

NALs

NALs

Economist by Profession
Jan 20, 2003
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Rocky said:
Dude,
You gave one of your long winded speeches about potential buyers doing their homework.
Eastcoastmike has been living there for 11 years.
The place changed on him.
It's gone all corrupt.
Your homework story has no relevance.
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No relevance?

Do you think people who are thinking of moving to the DR right now are not reading this thread? What's wrong with telling them that they need to do their homework, not just go by what people say?

Look at the dilemma the DR1er by the name of Kool-something asking about gated communities in another section of this website, he/she said that half of the people paint for her a rosy picture and the other half the complete opposite, thus no true middle ground has appeared in his/her desire for information prior to making the move.

Such person doesn't know who to believe. Do you think that person is not reading this thread?

The fact is that people can't base their entire decision on what happened to someone else or by what people say, because depending on the person; the stories are different and the experiences are different as well.

A person who makes a decision based on the "rosy" story and experience of an expatriate OR decides to not move to the DR based on the negative story and experience of an expatriate is a person who should had never made a decision in either of the cases!

People need to do their homework prior to making a decision, they need to think for themselves, get all the facts and balance the information one with the other. We can all sit here and say "but that's common sense", but you and I know very well that many people don't follow such common sense, which creates the need for someone to say it on these boards.

Where is the lack of relevance of saying such in a thread that affects potential newbies much more than any other type of person on this web site right now?

-NALs
 
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Rocky

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Apr 4, 2002
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NALs said:
No relevance?

Do you think people who are thinking of moving to the DR right now are not reading this thread? What's wrong with telling them that they need to do their homework, not just go by what people say?

Look at the dilemma the DR1er by the name of Kool-something asking about gated communities in another section of this website, he/she said that half of the people paint for her a rosy picture and the other half the complete opposite, thus no true middle ground has appeared in his/her desire for information prior to making the move.

Such person doesn't know who to believe. Do you think that person is not reading this thread?

The fact is that people can't base their entire decision on what happened to someone else or by what people say, because depending on the person; the stories are different and the experiences are different as well.

A person who makes a decision based on the "rosy" story and experience of an expatriate OR decides to not move to the DR based on the negative story and experience of an expatriate is a person who should had never made a decision in either of the cases!

People need to do their homework prior to making a decision, they need to think for themselves, get all the facts and balance the information one with the other. We can all sit here and say "but that's common sense", but you and I know very well that many people don't follow such common sense, which creates the need for someone to say it on these boards.

Where is the lack of relevance of saying such in a thread that affects potential newbies much more than any other type of person on this web site right now?

-NALs
Click to expand...
As Chris said, start your own thread.
Try to stay on topic, and if you could make posts that are 5 paragraphs or less, we would all appreciate it.
 
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koolkatrina

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You bet I'm reading this thread, and many others. I do my homework. Straight A's throughout high school! I'm interested in experiences of all, those who already live there, end up leaving there and those considering living there. This info. is invaluable to all of us who have NO CLUE about the bad areas. Can't expect real estate agents to point out the good and bad areas in my city, so don't expect them to be 100% honest with potential buyers. They're doing a job.

So sad for you, eastcoastmike. I do feel for you and your loss. What a heavy heart you must have. I wish you the very best, no matter where you decide to go. You are not to blame for these tragic events. Things have changed in many parts of the DR, from what I've been researching for the past 1.5 years. My neighborhood has also changed in the 9 years I've lived here. It's not my fault the drug dealers, pimps and prostitutes invaded, but now we all have to figure out a way to deal with the crap or move. That's where I'm at right now. Hugs to you, eastcoastmike, and hope you find peace wherever you go.
 
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harrydr

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Dec 12, 2006
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The bad guys won? In my book they never win, they just get screwed futher down the road. OP, is this a ten-year itch that has worn it's welcome?

For newbies, read all of this! All of this discussion is very important to digest. For those of us that live here, remember why we came here. And then deal with whatever comes our way.
 
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Lambada

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Nals, why didn't you answer my question about Elias Pina? Could it be that you don't know the answer? If not, why not say so, like I did? Why with respect waffle interminably about a different subject- bad expats & mules?

The question was posed to show that I, a fulltime DR dweller for the past 15 years (which you Nals, although Dominican, have not been) would not be confident about getting real info about that area. Most new residents would not even know as much as I do about the clan spirit in that area, the benefits passed on by the Castillo family etc etc. They would just hear the RE agent point out 'handy airstrip' nearby without having a clue as to what it was used for.............

As others have said, the country has changed. The main business driving force has changed. The people who protect that 'main business driving force' are in law enforcement, the military and government. Those new foreigners who seek to live in low density rural areas had better make damn certain that it isn't widespread narco terrain because otherwise they will not be living there for long. And sometimes, those new foreigners will not get their questions answered. Sometimes, even asking certain questions could put them at risk unless they know the person they are talking to.
 
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Chris

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The issue is that 'homework' in the DR does not bear the first resemblance to 'homework' in the home countries of most expats. A prospective expat will learn more from speaking and learning from experienced expats, than from a lecture to 'do your homework'. Tell the people what the 'homework' entails. And quick, from the top of my head (please add to this)...

Area (gated or non-gated) - what is it and who lives there. Speak to those people. How are their homes protected. Are they normal nice people, or are they a little weird. Do they speak, do they tell and do they assist. Is there a community that you can slot into. How many house break-ins and burglaries over the last year? Verify every piece of information.

Home - what and how is the physical protection to the home installed? What does the 'iron' look like. Through the wall, properly installed or simply for decoration.

Nearby communties - middle class or upper middle class people? or bad barrio?

How do you get to your house? - through decent space, or do you have to run a gauntlet of some kind.

If I have to buy in an expat area now, I would not buy until I had spoken to every neighbor, a few times at least.

There the homework starts. By the time you get to buying, you need to know the area properly.
 
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eastcoastmike

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Jul 18, 2004
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Nals,you are correct.Do your homework/research.But Rocky you are even more on the money.Simply the place changed on me.I had 9 great years.But the last 2 years have been hell.Anarchy which I believe is directly related to drugs.No one can see 10 years into the future.When the poor campasinos are firing off their guns mid-day its enough.No one suspects these guns to be legal.Where is the money coming from to buy them?To register and renew them?

I have spoken to other residents in my area.They tell me the same thing.They do not feel safe and they are selling.These are very educated people by the way.They did not make foolish investments years ago.To the contrary.Most of us thought that Samana was a very good investment.Country people.Ex pats buying into the area.Lots of plans(infrastructure/tourism)Natural beauty.The area simply CHANGED ON US!Granted ,myself and the others mentioned above lived in fairly isolated areas.This was the charm ,the isolation.And it was safe for many years.But it CHANGED ON US.

I love the island and most of its people.I will visit often.Katrina,I believe is your name here on DR1,thank you for your kind words.Im not suggesting to anyone to bail out of the country.Just be careful.Go with your gut feeling.Wasnt it that famous DR1er ,Bob Zimmerman from Sosua ,via Minnesota, who sang "The Times They Are A Changin"?
 
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eastcoastmike

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Jul 18, 2004
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By the way,to buy,register,renew arms by the campasinos......simply in jest.They aint bought,registered and renewed.
 
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BushBaby

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eastcoastmike said:
Nals,you are correct.Do your homework/research.But Rocky you are even more on the money.Simply the place changed on me.I had 9 great years.But the last 2 years have been hell.Anarchy which I believe is directly related to drugs.No one can see 10 years into the future.When the poor campasinos are firing off their guns mid-day its enough.No one suspects these guns to be legal.Where is the money coming from to buy them?To register and renew them?

I have spoken to other residents in my area.They tell me the same thing.They do not feel safe and they are selling.These are very educated people by the way.They did not make foolish investments years ago.To the contrary.Most of us thought that Samana was a very good investment.Country people.Ex pats buying into the area.Lots of plans(infrastructure/tourism)Natural beauty.The area simply CHANGED ON US!Granted ,myself and the others mentioned above lived in fairly isolated areas.This was the charm ,the isolation.And it was safe for many years.But it CHANGED ON US.

I love the island and most of its people.I will visit often.Katrina,I believe is your name here on DR1,thank you for your kind words.Im not suggesting to anyone to bail out of the country.Just be careful.Go with your gut feeling.Wasnt it that famous DR1er ,Bob Zimmerman from Sosua ,via Minnesota, who sang "The Times They Are A Changin"?
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From what you have highlighted here Eastcoastmike, the way you integrated, the time & effort you put in to make Samana a cosmopolitan area desirable to other Ex-Pats & ABOVE ALL the way you have conducted yourself on this thread, ........... I now have to disagree with your heading. It should NOT read "The bad guys won" - it should read 'The Bad Guys blew it & I am off".

I HOPE you sell your house at a realistic figure but feel you have reduced the chances by being so open & honest about the crime in the area - I admire your integrity. Should you ever return to visit the Puerto Plata area, I look forward to having a cold beer (or something) with you. ~ Grahame.
 
NALs

NALs

Economist by Profession
Jan 20, 2003
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Lambada said:
Nals, why didn't you answer my question about Elias Pina? Could it be that you don't know the answer? If not, why not say so, like I did? Why with respect waffle interminably about a different subject- bad expats & mules?
Click to expand...
I did answered your question.

My message was (before the "you're off topic" comments were made, which really took me off topic as I try to explain why I wrote what I did and how such was actually on topic) the following:

- People should do their homework.

There are ways of getting information about people without attracting any attention.

An Expat can be afraid to his/her bones of investigating anything about El?as Pi?a province (although much of the place is virtually uninhabited and economically unproductive - even at the illicit level), such person may feel more comfortable investigating more "civilized" places such as an area with an Expatriate enclave.... only to later find out that they were running into another potential problem!

Imagine, a person wants to move to El?as Pi?a, decides to settle elsewhere due to the "fear" and yet, their close foreign buddy or neighbor or internet chat buddy is later caught involved in the exact same illicit industry posing, perhaps, a similar threat to the security of such expat who initially was afraid of what he/she might find in El?as Pi?a.

That was why I said "people are nice until their dirty laundry is taken out for all to see".

The answer to your question was: it depends; because quite frankly, it really depends on various things.

-NALs
 
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