The Empire Strikes Back!!

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NotLurking

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@windeguy
Let me start by saying you can't tell me a thing about how to enforce law on the street level in any country.
You claim to understand law enforcement yet you bitch and moan when the authorities do their jobs. In the case of the Santiago restaurant the authorities were operating on a tip of possible document trafficking ring. Documents traffickers are criminals that could be armed to the teeth and you want agents to go in with their hands up their butt like this:

while people available do:
Agent: Excuse me are you a document trafficker?
Person: X: Oh GOD no!
Agent: Are you illegal?
Person: X: Oh no, certainly not!
Agent: Sorry if I offended you nice legal foreigner.
Person: X: No problem officer.
Agent: Oh Okay thank you. Enjoy your meal and have a great rest of your evening.

Agent: Okay boys pack it up these nice truthful people are not illegals nor document traffickers its all good. Apparently we were lied to. Lets go...
 

AlterEgo

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Not there? Sorry, there's no excuse for writing this nonsense.

"Then goto the bathroom and take a :poop: .
Then come back here and tell me what your 🚽 filled up with.
Use of 🧻 is your option."

"But you got people riding the dick of the current POTDR"
I hate to think of my fate - had I written that.....
Vegas is taking a short break from DR1 to consider his demeanor and language.
 

windeguy

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@windeguy
The motivation for the raid has nothing to do with how the raid was conducted.
Even if they had a question about their safety...the proper procedure would have been to enter the establishment and make sure they were aware of everyone in the place. Make sure no one had any weapons that could be used against them. That might have required for them to restrain individuals in the establishment initially. After that, individuals should have been separated and interviewed for documentation. If documentation was not present then they could be placed under arrest and taken to the processing location. If documentation was present, and they were not a person of interest in the investigation, then there was no legal or safety reason (read - probable cause) to them to have been detained.

Now, lets get back to their country their rules. That is all well and good. But you got people riding the dick of the current POTDR about all the good things being done the country. And yet, they want to overlook areas where basic professional police conduct is not being conducted. By their own admission, a number of people were arrested and then released afterwards who were not part of the investigation. That is not a ready for prime time operation.

Fine, reputation means nothing to them cause it is their country. Remember this was a well known regular business in operation in the daytime. Not a mother ****** trap house. So far there have been no reports that the owner/operators were part of the illegal activities that were occurring in the business. It is their country. They can do what they like. No matter what anyone thinks about it.

Because the police do not need probable cause to do anything in this country. They do what they like. And then their actions are reviewed carefully. Anyone who has a police encounter in the Dominican Republic should handle themselves with the most extreme respect and care and have an attorney on speed dial. Because you can be right. But you can also be dead right. In my personal situation, I am still walking the streets. But it was very close to not being the case. I almost died. And a detainee that I was held with did die and received not medical attention despite out pleas to the controlling legal authorities holding us.

I don't know if you are a drinker. But when I write...I give it straight no chase. When you take a strong drink and you feel the effects, the drink is not angry at you. It is what it is.
That is the realization everyone who lives here should have. --"Because the police do not need probable cause to do anything in this country. They do what they like. " What I call preaching to the choir on this. They did what was safer for them to do. Round em up and sort it out later.

Expecting the Migracion officials to act "as one would expect" back home is not realistic. They were recently stoned by Haitians in Santiago.

And each time something happens that is unexpected, expect different results.
 

CristoRey

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Immigration laws can be enforced based upon country of origin. That is obvious, no?

Haitians get their own special treatment and gringos from tourist card countries get their own special treatment. And so it goes...
Some folks seem to think the Dominican Republic is the only country in the world where this happens when in fact it's no different in dozens of countries around the world who share a border with a neighbor less fortunate.
 
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CristoRey

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You claim to understand law enforcement yet you bitch and moan when the authorities do their jobs. In the case of the Santiago restaurant the authorities were operating on a tip of possible document trafficking ring. Documents traffickers are criminals that could be armed to the teeth and you want agents to go in with their hands up their butt like this:

while people available do:


Agent: Okay boys pack it up these nice truthful people are not illegals nor document traffickers its all good. Apparently we were lied to. Lets go...
I have been stopped by immigration officers here in Santiago in the past. They looked at my documents, asked if I was enjoying my stay in their country, to which I replied "of course, I love it here" and within two minutes I was on my way.

However do not think for one minute I got some sort of special treatment because of my skin color or my good looks. I have a American friend who travels down to Santiago from the north east once every couple of months and he was stopped one morning here in Santiago without his documents (foolishy ran out of his hotel without them to catch breakfast) and he was detained, put into the back of their truck with a few Haitians and taken to their holding center somewhere on the outskirts of the city. Upon entering their office he was told if he could not provide proof he were in the country legally he was in big trouble. Lucky for him he was able to call his hotel who then scanned and sent a copy of his passport to his cellphone which they then verified prior to him being released. The whole ordeal took about five hours for him to resolve so he basically wasted an entire day of his one week vacation.

Immigration does their job in this country, they are not just picking on the Haitians and to anyone reading this, I highly suggest you always carry a copy (i was told a copy is fine) of your entry stamp along with a copy of your travel document, otherwise you may end up wasting a lot of time trying to sort out something which is easily avoidable.
 
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NotLurking

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I have been stopped by immigration officers here in Santiago in the past. They looked at my documents, asked if I was enjoying my stay in their country, to which I replied "of course, I love it here" and within two minutes I was on my way.

However do not think for one minute I got some sort of special treatment because of my skin color or my good looks. I have a American friend who travels down to Santiago from the north east once every couple of months and he was stopped one morning here in Santiago without his documents (foolishy ran out of his hotel without them to catch breakfast) and he was detained, put into the back of their truck with a few Haitians and taken to their holding center somewhere on the outskirts of the city. Upon entering their office he was told if he could not provide proof he were in the country legally he was in big trouble. Lucky for him he was able to call his hotel who then scanned and sent a copy of his passport to his cellphone which they then verified prior to him being released. The whole ordeal took about five hours for him to resolve so he basically wasted an entire day of his one week vacation.

Immigration does their job in this country, they are not just picking on the Haitians and to anyone reading this, I highly suggest you always carry a copy (i was told a copy is fine) of your entry stamp along with a copy of your travel document, otherwise you may end up wasting a lot of time trying to sort out something which is easily avoidable.
Your american friend is not the first I've heard of being detained for lack of poof of legal status. It is a common occurrence but since the squeaky wheel gets the grease, we are bombarded by whining accounts of unfair haitian detainment. Cry me a river!

It is recommended to carry proof of legal migratory status at all times. A copy will do most of the time but if the agent is not comfortable with you for any reason he might ask for the original. That is ok because since you are carrying a copy the agent will be more prone to help you produce the original.

A good trick is to email yourself a photo of your passport and entry stamp ASAP after you arrive. If you forget the copy, like in the case of your friend, you can access email from anywhere and retrieve it.
 
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windeguy

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I disagree that Migracion does their job enough in the DR. But that is just me. They don't come close to doing their job in my home country either.
 

CristoRey

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I disagree that Migracion does their job enough in the DR. But that is just me. They don't come close to doing their job in my home country either.
Their number one priority appears to be catching and removing those who have entered the country illegally to which there are many and they're not all Haitian.

I know the whole overstay pay as go program really makes your blood boil because you forked out money and jumped thru all of their hoops to get your legal residency but this same laxed way the DR government deals with non-life threatening issues is one of the main reasons you enjoy living here so relax...it's a package deal.
 

william webster

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I have zero complaints about going thru the residency/citizenship process but my case may be different

I have no residency other than this one.... 'Citizen of the World' does NOT work

Overstayers are like fleas on an elephant here..... just pests, not worth troubling the gov't
 

El Hijo de Manolo

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Ugly & unfair???
No---- true
I guess if i was a high roller like yourself i could wave my hand at the pests as well. A pest carries a certain connotation. What about other wealthy folks up there in the Farallones that are overstayers snowbirds. Are they pests? Is a pest an annoyance by your definition? Are overstayers dirty, annoyances that feed off of bugs and garbage? How do you call other humans pests W? I'm surprised at your position here. I agree that folks with significant assets should probably assure legal status, but you're unnecessarily insulting normal/regular folks.
 

D'Arcy (Apostropheman)

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Simply bc there are a lot of ignorant ppl in the world. Untrained. No education. Afraid. ie; Do you know a member of the police force that went tru the 3 month training course, a young man that you knew when he was a teenager? Do you know why he came to be "police"? I have the benefit of this education so it makes me more understanding just how it works here in wonderland. Dismal and will take GENERATIONS to change.
What's your point Johne?
 
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D'Arcy (Apostropheman)

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I can assure you that the people who vote in the DR want Migracion to do this type of thing. At least the people I personally know who can vote.

This is not negative publicity anywhere but perhaps on the world stage, and the DR could care less about that since the world doesn't vote and the Haitian issue is a huge one that remains very loosely controlled. It is not a simple problem and there are no simple answers based upon the desire by business to have cheap labor and sporadic enforcement of the labor laws.
Based on what? Are we just supposed to take your word for it?

While many Dominicans don't want illegal Haitians to be in the DR they alsp don't want Dominicans and tourists to be rounded up with the Haitians. I don't want anyone to be mistreated especially when it would have been simple to ask for passports and visas. This was an abuse of power, plain and simple.
 
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NotLurking

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I guess if i was a high roller like yourself i could wave my hand at the pests as well. A pest carries a certain connotation. What about other wealthy folks up there in the Farallones that are overstayers snowbirds. Are they pests? Is a pest an annoyance by your definition? Are overstayers dirty, annoyances that feed off of bugs and garbage? How do you call other humans pests W? I'm surprised at your position here. I agree that folks with significant assets should probably assure legal status, but you're unnecessarily insulting normal/regular folks.
@El Hijo de Manolo I think you are reading to much into this. I do believe he was being facetious when he made that comment. Every joke is based on some element of truth. I though you liked comedic relief. I see no malice here but it is your call on how you see it. Please don't take it personal.
 

El Hijo de Manolo

It's outrageous, egregious, preposterous!
Dec 10, 2021
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@El Hijo de Manolo I think you are reading to much into this. I do believe he was being facetious when he made that comment. Every joke is based on some element of truth. I though you liked comedic relief. I see no malice here but it is your call on how you see it. Please don't take it personal.
He was not. I know his style.
 

NotLurking

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This was an abuse of power, plain and simple.
How exactly? Can you please expound? On which law exactly do you base your conclusion? I've posted a few news articles that demonstrate that the agents were justify. No one was killed, maimed or physically harmed. There were 21 illegals there and one person had 15 passports on him plus some money. Also remember the supposed consul has no diplomatic authority since he was already discharged from his consular duties when the raid occurred. James Jacques is nothing more than a poser instigator that was lucky the agents didn't arrest him for obstruction. Here is Listin Diario also corroborating the event.
Migración señaló que en el operativo fueron detenidos 21 nacionales haitianos indocumentados. Igualmente fueron confiscados unos 15 pasaporte haitianos, así como las sumas en efectivo de 56,500.00 pesos dominicanos, 890 dólares y 4,100 gourdes haitianos.

Asimismo, la entidad comunicó que “se actuó en respuesta a decenas de quejas de vecinos y ciudadanos que denunciaban ruidos y escándalos que se producían a altas horas de la noche en el bar restaurante y discoteca, llamado Laromate Creole”.

La institución indicó que durante el operativo se presentó el cónsul general de Haití en Santiago, James Jacques, exigiendo que se le entregara al señor Jolivain Nelson, a quien se le habían ocupado los 15 pasaportes y el dinero en el operativo.
 
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