Tranquilo hermano, el viaje m?s largo se inicia con el primero paso!
Chinese proverb...
- Thread starter mountainannie
- Start date
The Haitian Occupation of the Dominican Republic
- Status
Tranquilo hermano, el viaje m?s largo se inicia con el primero paso!
Chinese proverb...
Military Invasions By Haitians to Dominicans
1805, 1822, 1844, 1845, 1849, 1855, and 1856*.
Military Invasions from Dominican Republic to Haiti
None
Historical Desire of Haiti
Dominate the entire island. Their constitution still refers to the island as "island of Haiti."
Historical Desire of Dominican Republic
To be left alone.
Places of Dominican-Haitian Wars/Battles
100% Dominican territory, 0% Haiti?s.
Places That Suffered Human Casualties Due to Dominican-Haitian Wars/Battles
100% Dominican territory, 0% Haiti?s
Places That Suffered Material Losses Due to Dominican-Haitian Wars/Battles
100% Dominican territory, 0% Haiti?s
Country Currently Pressured for the Benefit of Its Neighbor
100% Dominican Republic, 0% Haiti
*The 1856 invasion was on the order of Haitian Emperor Faustin I, who even said that if his invasion would had been successful, not even the chickens were going to be left alive; meaning, he was going to put the entire Dominican population through the sword in order to ensure that his invasion would be the final and successful one. This invasion, however, was certainly the last one of a military nature but not successful. No new military invasions were attempted because many members of the Haitian military, including high ranking officers, expressed their discontent to be constantly losing to the Dominicans.
1805, 1822, 1844, 1845, 1849, 1855, and 1856*.
Military Invasions from Dominican Republic to Haiti
None
Historical Desire of Haiti
Dominate the entire island. Their constitution still refers to the island as "island of Haiti."
Historical Desire of Dominican Republic
To be left alone.
Places of Dominican-Haitian Wars/Battles
100% Dominican territory, 0% Haiti?s.
Places That Suffered Human Casualties Due to Dominican-Haitian Wars/Battles
100% Dominican territory, 0% Haiti?s
Places That Suffered Material Losses Due to Dominican-Haitian Wars/Battles
100% Dominican territory, 0% Haiti?s
Country Currently Pressured for the Benefit of Its Neighbor
100% Dominican Republic, 0% Haiti
*The 1856 invasion was on the order of Haitian Emperor Faustin I, who even said that if his invasion would had been successful, not even the chickens were going to be left alive; meaning, he was going to put the entire Dominican population through the sword in order to ensure that his invasion would be the final and successful one. This invasion, however, was certainly the last one of a military nature but not successful. No new military invasions were attempted because many members of the Haitian military, including high ranking officers, expressed their discontent to be constantly losing to the Dominicans.
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Nals.. you put down that it was France in 1801 to 1809? Under Toussaint Loverture? Is that what is recorded in your history books? Because Haitians declared independence officially in 1804,, after a slave revolt that started in 1791. Toussaint was serving under the Republican army of France supposedly, a French governor, but they were Haitian soldiers were they not?
Were you taught this was France, not Haiti?
Were you taught this was France, not Haiti?
The effective French occupation would be from 1802 (Leclerc expedition), yes.
Toussaint wasn't even around to savor in the victory. He surrendered to the French and was taken to France where he was tortured and died in a prison dungeon. I believe his kids were studying in France before his exile there but he never saw the light of day again.
I never mentioned the invasion of 1801 because its common knowledge Toussaint invaded with the French flag in tow. I did mentioned specifically the invasion of 1805 because that was a Haitian invasion and the sufferers were Dominicans.
The 1805 invasion was done in conjunction with Henry Christophe through the north and Dessalines through the south. When they couldn't take over Santo Domingo, thinking a French fleet was headed for their defenseless Port-au-Prince, they decided to end their siege of Santo Domingo and march back to Haiti. As Christophe's troops were heading back to Haiti, they laid waste every town and inhabited rural area they passed through the Cibao, including massacring many innocent people; and Dessalines did the same through the south.
Personally, I think those massacres were going to take place anyway and were probably going to be much more extensive if they would had been successful at capturing Santo Domingo. Then the whole island would had been under their rule and the entire population of the island at their mercy. By not being able to capture Santo Domingo, they did as much damage as they could on their way back to Haiti.
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Nals.. yes, ok. we get it. But let us also take a look at the populations involved.
And that for most of that time, Haiti had an army and the DR did not.
So no one is trying to ARGUE here. We are trying to discuss. No one is trying to take away your Spanish heritage or your Catholicism or anything. We are just trying to get to the facts,, or the roots of the misinterpretations or misundertandings..
like a lot of us, you may have mastered two of the four languages needed to master the situation here in current time .. let alone discern what is historical fact or fiction.
The Haitian diaspora has had a great advantage in the US because they have linked up with the entire African American studies being the first emancipators. So we, who have been involved in this issue, tend to know more of their side of the story. Lots of Americans are lacking in European history as well,
I, for one, think that it would be great if Domnicans and Haitians could work together rather than against one another so that they could prosper together. I think you know that by now.
Let us not turn this thread into another one like the antihationism thread and get it closed down, ok?
And that for most of that time, Haiti had an army and the DR did not.
So no one is trying to ARGUE here. We are trying to discuss. No one is trying to take away your Spanish heritage or your Catholicism or anything. We are just trying to get to the facts,, or the roots of the misinterpretations or misundertandings..
like a lot of us, you may have mastered two of the four languages needed to master the situation here in current time .. let alone discern what is historical fact or fiction.
The Haitian diaspora has had a great advantage in the US because they have linked up with the entire African American studies being the first emancipators. So we, who have been involved in this issue, tend to know more of their side of the story. Lots of Americans are lacking in European history as well,
I, for one, think that it would be great if Domnicans and Haitians could work together rather than against one another so that they could prosper together. I think you know that by now.
Let us not turn this thread into another one like the antihationism thread and get it closed down, ok?
One of the kids (Isaac, I think) even got to write some memoirs about the matter, but they have yet to see a translation outside the French language.
And there are many families that were originally from the south that to this day have been told the stories of what happened to their ancestors and the neighbors in the towns they were originally from when Dessalines troops arrived.
I intended to reply to delite's post, sorry.
As for the oral stories, while you and I may give them value, academia don't tend to give them the same. Specially since, as Annie mentioned above, they tend to see more the side of the "oppressed", even if such people at the time had a battle hardened army of approx. 30,000 troops at their disposal.
Toussaint
The civil war lasted over a year, with the defeated Rigaud fleeing to Guadeloupe, then France, in August 1800.[91] Toussaint delegated most of the campaign to his lieutenant, Jean-Jacques Dessalines, who became infamous, during and after the war, for massacring mulatto captives and civilians.[92] The number of deaths is contested: James claims a few hundred deaths in contravention of the amnesty. The contemporary French general, Pamphile de Lacroix, suggested 10,000.[93]
In November 1799, during the civil war, Napoleon Bonaparte gained power in France and passed a new constitution declaring that the colonies would be subject to special laws.[94] Although the colonies suspected this meant the re-introduction of slavery, Napoleon began by confirming Toussaint's position and promising to maintain the abolition.[95] But he also forbade Toussaint to invade Spanish Santo Domingo, an action that would put Toussaint in a powerful defensive position.[96] Toussaint was determined to proceed anyway and coerced Roume into supplying the necessary permission.[97] In January 1801, Toussaint and Hyacinthe Mo?se invaded the Spanish territory, taking possession from the Governor, Don Garcia, with few difficulties. The area had been wilder and less densely populated than the French section. Toussaint brought it under French law which abolished slavery, and embarked on a program of modernization. He was now master of the whole island.[98]
The Constitution of 1801[edit source | editbeta]
An early engraving of Louverture.
Napoleon had made it clear to the inhabitants of Saint-Domingue that France would draw up a new constitution for its colonies, in which they would be subjected to special laws.[99] Despite his initial protestations to the contrary, it seemed likely all along that he might restore slavery, which obviously worried the former slaves in Saint-Domingue. In March 1801, Louverture appointed a constitutional assembly, mainly composed of white planters, to draft a constitution for Saint-Domingue. He promulgated the Constitution on July 7, 1801, officially establishing his authority over the entire island of Hispaniola. It made him governor-general for life with near absolute powers and the possibility of choosing his successor. However, Toussaint was careful enough as to not explicitly declare Saint-Domingue's independence, immediately acknowledging that it was just a single colony of the French Empire in Article 1 of the Constitution.[100] Article 3 of the constitution states: "There cannot exist slaves [in Saint-Domingue], servitude is therein forever abolished. All men are born, live and die free and French."[101] The constitution guaranteed equal opportunity and equal treatment under the law for all races, but also confirmed Toussaint's policies of forced labour and the importation of workers through the slave trade.[102] Toussaint was willing to compromise the dominant Vodou faith for Catholicism. Article 6 clearly states that "the Catholic, Apostolic, Roman faith shall be the only publicly professed faith."[103]
Toussaint charged Colonel Vincent with the task of presenting the new constitution to Napoleon, even though Vincent himself was horrified to discover that the general had gone so far. Several aspects of the constitution were damaging to France: the absence of provision for French government officials, the lack of advantages to France in trade with its own colony, and Toussaint's breach of protocol in publishing the constitution before submitting it to the French government. Despite his disapproval, Vincent attempted to submit the constitution to Napoleon in a positive light, but was briefly exiled to Elba for his pains.[104]
Toussaint professed himself a Frenchman and strove to convince Bonaparte of his loyalty. He wrote to Napoleon but received no reply.[105] Napoleon eventually decided to send an expedition of 20,000 men to Saint-Domingue to restore French authority, and possibly to restore slavery as well.[106]
Leclerc's campaign[edit source | editbeta]
Napoleon's troops, under the command of his brother-in-law, General Charles Emmanuel Leclerc, were to seize control of the island by diplomatic means, proclaiming peaceful intentions, and keeping secret his orders to deport all black officers.[107] Meanwhile, Toussaint was preparing for defence and ensuring discipline. This may have contributed to a rebellion against forced labor led by his nephew and top general, Mo?se, in October 1801. It was violently repressed with the result that when the French ships arrived not all of Saint-Domingue was automatically on Toussaint's side.[108] In late January 1802, while Leclerc sought permission to land at Cap-Fran?ais and Christophe held him off, the Vicomte de Rochambeau suddenly attacked Fort-Libert?, effectively quashing the diplomatic option.[109]
Toussaint's plan in case of war was to burn the coastal cities and as much of the plains as possible, retreat with his troops into the inaccessible mountains and wait for fever to decimate the European troops.[110] The biggest impediment to this plan proved to be difficulty in internal communications. Christophe burned Cap-Fran?ais and retreated, but Paul Louverture was tricked by a false letter into allowing the French to occupy Santo Domingo; other officers believed Napoleon's diplomatic proclamation, while some attempted resistance instead of burning and retreating.[111] French reports to Napoleon show that in the months of fighting that followed, the French felt their position was weak, but that Toussaint and his generals were not fully conscious of their strength.[112]
With both sides shocked by the violence of the initial fighting, Leclerc tried belatedly to revert to the diplomatic solution. Toussaint's sons and their tutor had accompanied the expedition with this end in mind and were now sent to present Napoleon's proclamation to Toussaint.[113] When these talks broke down, months of inconclusive fighting followed. On 6 May 1802, Louverture rode into Cap-Fran?ais to treat with Leclerc. He negotiated an amnesty for all his remaining generals, then retired with full honors to his plantations at Ennery.[114]
Arrest and imprisonment[edit source | editbeta]
Leclerc originally asked Dessalines to arrest Louverture, but he declined. The task then fell to Jean Baptiste Brunet. However accounts differ as to how he accomplished this. One account has it that Brunet pretended that he planned to settle in Saint-Domingue and was asking Toussaint's advice about plantation management. Louverture's memoirs however suggest that Brunet's troops had been provocative, leading Louverture to seek a discussion with him. Either way, Louverture had a letter in which Brunet described himself as a "sincere friend" to take with him to France. Embarrassed about his trickery, Brunet absented himself during the arrest.[115] He deported them to France on the frigate Cr?ole and the 74-gun H?ros, claiming that he suspected the former leader of plotting an uprising. Boarding Cr?ole,[116] Toussaint Louverture famously warned his captors that the rebels would not repeat his mistake:
In overthrowing me you have cut down in Saint Domingue only the trunk of the tree of liberty; it will spring up again from the roots, for they are many and they are deep.[117]
They reached France on 2 July 1802 and, on 25 August, Toussaint Louverture was sent to the jail in Fort-de-Joux in the Doubs. While in prison, he died on the seventh of April, 1803. In his absence, Jean-Jacques Dessalines led the Haitian rebellion until its completion, finally defeating the French forces in 1803.
from the wiki in English
and here is the Spanish wiki with different sources
Toussaint Louverture - Wikipedia, la enciclopedia libre
Toussaint had an army of 51000 including 3000 whites. (bound only by loyalty.. I guess, because there could only be promises of pay or plunder, right?)
remember that in 1794 the population of the Spanish side of the island was
35,000 whites, 38000 Freedman, and 30,000 slaves...
The civil war lasted over a year, with the defeated Rigaud fleeing to Guadeloupe, then France, in August 1800.[91] Toussaint delegated most of the campaign to his lieutenant, Jean-Jacques Dessalines, who became infamous, during and after the war, for massacring mulatto captives and civilians.[92] The number of deaths is contested: James claims a few hundred deaths in contravention of the amnesty. The contemporary French general, Pamphile de Lacroix, suggested 10,000.[93]
In November 1799, during the civil war, Napoleon Bonaparte gained power in France and passed a new constitution declaring that the colonies would be subject to special laws.[94] Although the colonies suspected this meant the re-introduction of slavery, Napoleon began by confirming Toussaint's position and promising to maintain the abolition.[95] But he also forbade Toussaint to invade Spanish Santo Domingo, an action that would put Toussaint in a powerful defensive position.[96] Toussaint was determined to proceed anyway and coerced Roume into supplying the necessary permission.[97] In January 1801, Toussaint and Hyacinthe Mo?se invaded the Spanish territory, taking possession from the Governor, Don Garcia, with few difficulties. The area had been wilder and less densely populated than the French section. Toussaint brought it under French law which abolished slavery, and embarked on a program of modernization. He was now master of the whole island.[98]
The Constitution of 1801[edit source | editbeta]
An early engraving of Louverture.
Napoleon had made it clear to the inhabitants of Saint-Domingue that France would draw up a new constitution for its colonies, in which they would be subjected to special laws.[99] Despite his initial protestations to the contrary, it seemed likely all along that he might restore slavery, which obviously worried the former slaves in Saint-Domingue. In March 1801, Louverture appointed a constitutional assembly, mainly composed of white planters, to draft a constitution for Saint-Domingue. He promulgated the Constitution on July 7, 1801, officially establishing his authority over the entire island of Hispaniola. It made him governor-general for life with near absolute powers and the possibility of choosing his successor. However, Toussaint was careful enough as to not explicitly declare Saint-Domingue's independence, immediately acknowledging that it was just a single colony of the French Empire in Article 1 of the Constitution.[100] Article 3 of the constitution states: "There cannot exist slaves [in Saint-Domingue], servitude is therein forever abolished. All men are born, live and die free and French."[101] The constitution guaranteed equal opportunity and equal treatment under the law for all races, but also confirmed Toussaint's policies of forced labour and the importation of workers through the slave trade.[102] Toussaint was willing to compromise the dominant Vodou faith for Catholicism. Article 6 clearly states that "the Catholic, Apostolic, Roman faith shall be the only publicly professed faith."[103]
Toussaint charged Colonel Vincent with the task of presenting the new constitution to Napoleon, even though Vincent himself was horrified to discover that the general had gone so far. Several aspects of the constitution were damaging to France: the absence of provision for French government officials, the lack of advantages to France in trade with its own colony, and Toussaint's breach of protocol in publishing the constitution before submitting it to the French government. Despite his disapproval, Vincent attempted to submit the constitution to Napoleon in a positive light, but was briefly exiled to Elba for his pains.[104]
Toussaint professed himself a Frenchman and strove to convince Bonaparte of his loyalty. He wrote to Napoleon but received no reply.[105] Napoleon eventually decided to send an expedition of 20,000 men to Saint-Domingue to restore French authority, and possibly to restore slavery as well.[106]
Leclerc's campaign[edit source | editbeta]
Napoleon's troops, under the command of his brother-in-law, General Charles Emmanuel Leclerc, were to seize control of the island by diplomatic means, proclaiming peaceful intentions, and keeping secret his orders to deport all black officers.[107] Meanwhile, Toussaint was preparing for defence and ensuring discipline. This may have contributed to a rebellion against forced labor led by his nephew and top general, Mo?se, in October 1801. It was violently repressed with the result that when the French ships arrived not all of Saint-Domingue was automatically on Toussaint's side.[108] In late January 1802, while Leclerc sought permission to land at Cap-Fran?ais and Christophe held him off, the Vicomte de Rochambeau suddenly attacked Fort-Libert?, effectively quashing the diplomatic option.[109]
Toussaint's plan in case of war was to burn the coastal cities and as much of the plains as possible, retreat with his troops into the inaccessible mountains and wait for fever to decimate the European troops.[110] The biggest impediment to this plan proved to be difficulty in internal communications. Christophe burned Cap-Fran?ais and retreated, but Paul Louverture was tricked by a false letter into allowing the French to occupy Santo Domingo; other officers believed Napoleon's diplomatic proclamation, while some attempted resistance instead of burning and retreating.[111] French reports to Napoleon show that in the months of fighting that followed, the French felt their position was weak, but that Toussaint and his generals were not fully conscious of their strength.[112]
With both sides shocked by the violence of the initial fighting, Leclerc tried belatedly to revert to the diplomatic solution. Toussaint's sons and their tutor had accompanied the expedition with this end in mind and were now sent to present Napoleon's proclamation to Toussaint.[113] When these talks broke down, months of inconclusive fighting followed. On 6 May 1802, Louverture rode into Cap-Fran?ais to treat with Leclerc. He negotiated an amnesty for all his remaining generals, then retired with full honors to his plantations at Ennery.[114]
Arrest and imprisonment[edit source | editbeta]
Leclerc originally asked Dessalines to arrest Louverture, but he declined. The task then fell to Jean Baptiste Brunet. However accounts differ as to how he accomplished this. One account has it that Brunet pretended that he planned to settle in Saint-Domingue and was asking Toussaint's advice about plantation management. Louverture's memoirs however suggest that Brunet's troops had been provocative, leading Louverture to seek a discussion with him. Either way, Louverture had a letter in which Brunet described himself as a "sincere friend" to take with him to France. Embarrassed about his trickery, Brunet absented himself during the arrest.[115] He deported them to France on the frigate Cr?ole and the 74-gun H?ros, claiming that he suspected the former leader of plotting an uprising. Boarding Cr?ole,[116] Toussaint Louverture famously warned his captors that the rebels would not repeat his mistake:
In overthrowing me you have cut down in Saint Domingue only the trunk of the tree of liberty; it will spring up again from the roots, for they are many and they are deep.[117]
They reached France on 2 July 1802 and, on 25 August, Toussaint Louverture was sent to the jail in Fort-de-Joux in the Doubs. While in prison, he died on the seventh of April, 1803. In his absence, Jean-Jacques Dessalines led the Haitian rebellion until its completion, finally defeating the French forces in 1803.
from the wiki in English
and here is the Spanish wiki with different sources
Toussaint Louverture - Wikipedia, la enciclopedia libre
Toussaint had an army of 51000 including 3000 whites. (bound only by loyalty.. I guess, because there could only be promises of pay or plunder, right?)
remember that in 1794 the population of the Spanish side of the island was
35,000 whites, 38000 Freedman, and 30,000 slaves...
This doesn't make sense at all. Why would there be two simultaneous attacks on a country without an organized army? Then, battle hardened fighters would leave their base unprotected that they would have to retreat to fend off a possible threat? Something smells rotten here.
There's nothing hidden to read here, they were just following the same strategy Toussaint followed when he took control here in 1801. That same move would happen two times more in the island's history. First, when Boyer also came here and took control in 1822, and lastly, when the Haitian authorities, under Charles Herard, attacked the newly declared country in March, 1844. Herard's adventure would end up badly, though, as his political enemies in PAP took the opportunity to launch a revolution and oust him from power. He would take the same Jamaican exile route Boyer would take after the fact. One could say the division of the army in two columns was standard Haitian army procedure when invading east.
But it is good to have this discussion because minds can open. I remember when I was a kid, watching the old cowboy movies and the cowboys were always the good guys and the Indians were always the savages. It was not til the late 60s when really one folk singer Buffy Sainte Marie - "Now that the Buffalo's Gone" - YouTube and one Hollywood actor turned it around. Marlon Brando's Oscar? win for " The Godfather" - YouTube ok.. maybe not the abuse.. but raised the awareness.
And certainly it is hard to sympathize with stories about stories of some sort of ancestral indignation.. of a massacare or lands which were run by slaves which were lost, when one sees the misery of Haiti now.
Dominicans often do not make it easy to take your side or see your point of view.
But let us keep unravelling the different stories and see if we can get to something that approimates an understand.
And yes, certainly, it is easier to side with the underdog.
My whole family traditionally roots for the Boston Red Soxs.
And certainly it is hard to sympathize with stories about stories of some sort of ancestral indignation.. of a massacare or lands which were run by slaves which were lost, when one sees the misery of Haiti now.
Dominicans often do not make it easy to take your side or see your point of view.
But let us keep unravelling the different stories and see if we can get to something that approimates an understand.
And yes, certainly, it is easier to side with the underdog.
My whole family traditionally roots for the Boston Red Soxs.
wait wait
napoleons army was all over the island
and they DID defeat them in Haiti.. well a contingent of them
Battle of Verti?res - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
napoleons army was all over the island
and they DID defeat them in Haiti.. well a contingent of them
Battle of Verti?res - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I don't think that it was about a country without an army.. it was about the various invading army's.. Napoleon's and the British were both establishing strongholds ...
The slash and burn techniques that the Haitians used were .. are .. still pretty common, are they not? to cut off the supply lines? Boyer evidently had to cut short the seige of Santo Domingo to go back and protect Port Au Prince from being retaken...
This is really quite amazing.. I am no fan of war, and having been to Quaker school, never studied it much except to learn who won and who lost and the economic reasons behind it. (as a point of interest though they "taught" us pacifism by showing us live black and whilte films of the liberation of the concentration camps at assembly pretty regularly indocranation 505)...
But this really becomes so much more impressive when I read about how amazingly hard the Haitians fought on this side as well, to preserve.. ok.. well.. you Dominicans can rightly say to conquer.. but back in 1820 for black men it was certainly to preserve their freedom. So while i had sorta thought that Haiti had its libery in 1804 and was only burdened by the reparations, I am now seeing this whole OTHER aspect.. that they were still really fighting til 1844.
It is really too bad that more of theis is NOT taught to Haitians.. that there has NOT been more of an understanding of how it all fit into the plan of slavery and colonialism and oppression etc from OTHERS.
Of course, down in the South of the the US, in South Carolina, where my cousin lives, it is still called the War of North Aggression and is considered to have been about States Rights.. so I am not saying that the Us is ahead of you,
Attacking in columns of two isn't new at all. The Zulus specialized and mastered this tactic which was copied later by the Boers.
My point is being battled seasoned and a well disciplined military force, why would Christophe and Dessallines invade with such force that they would have to retreat in order to reinforce or thwart of an attack on the home territory? I guess my point is the size of the occupying force against relative or no resistance. This is military planning 101. Remember also that intelligence personnel are always compiling information on a daily basis. For example, what is suppose opposition? Men of fighting age? Military equipment? Climate in favor of against invasion? Dissenting political parties? Strength of political support?
It just doesn't make any sense at all to me from a militaristic point of view. Non disclaimer...DR has intelligence personnel operating in Haiti both J-2, G-2 and E-2 even though Haiti has disbanded their military in the 1990s under Aristide.
For me the most signal mistake they did was not bringing artillery then. Every time they attempted a "horde" tactic to breach the walls, they ended up having a lot of casualties from the defenders. Even when they attempted to attack a particularly exposed sector as the villa de San Carlos back then. Even more when one sees that Petion (an artilleryman by formation) was on the commanding posts of the expedition.
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