Update from Haiti

[Hillbilly]

A bit too forceful? Problems are the entangled interests: wood cutters for charcoal to cook the donated food from the monster NGO...
Skip that paragraph Annie. Think about that rural population. Totally illiterate, totally cut off from xx century, let alone xxi century life. A daily struggle to live. Plus a culture that is riddled with such anti-beliefs as to boggle your mind.
If you look back, not even Boyer, perhaps one of the great presidents of Haiti, was ever able to get the people to come together with a national purpose to WORK the lands.
For 200 years Haiti and its people have lived OFF the lands, giving back NOTHING. They are now paying the price and a high one it is.

I agree with what you are saying, but history weighs a lot over there. Which is why I think I vote for some heavy handedness...maybe I am being too Rooseveltian>?? There are brilliant people in Haiti, and they could do a lot if assisted inthe proper way. And these are people who see the nation's problems as you and I do...quite clearly.

Perhaps that is why there is talk of beinging Baby Doc back? The longing for some sort of national communion under one leader? Just like the undercurrent in the DR that talks about Trujillo...

HB

 

[mountainannie]

well I would welcome King Leonel, and I think that most Haitians will as well.

Few wish the return of the rule of terror that was Duvalier

There is great hope with the media coverage now and all the people who are watching...

and I am not so sure that I have all this pity for the Haitian peasant that you have

why such a rush into the twentieth century

why not continue to go to market on our mules?

if we simply get a few replacement forests going

you will see

those haitian peasants are some very very smart people

deep people

spiritual people

 

[Hillbilly]

The problem of leaving them in the past is that they have developed a culture of taking without giving back to the land. That is why there is no forest cover to speak of, why the land is all eroded and why they are going hungry.
If you leave them in the past, they will die.
Perhaps that is good, it will remove a few million and allow those that remain to rebuild more efficiently.
It took the Aymaras and other tribes of the Andes centuries to learn to terrace and husband the waters. But they were always free, never enslaved. These folks next door were ripped from their tribes, moved to the Caribbean and forced into labor. Some of them, even today are not 200 years removed from slavery...So they have not had centuries to make their peace with nature and their mountains and valleys.

In this aspect that I would promote a "Show them how and provide follow up" process.

Look, I was involved in community development when it was a brand new idea, and as soon as we turned our backs, the folks went back to the old ways. Even in the USA there are farmers that have rejected hybrid corn, 80 years after its introduction (NO, not genetically engineered corn, hybrid).

I can't address the issues of Monsanto or other companies. Sorry. Nor do I really wish to see a Duvalier back in Haiti...TITI was enough thanks...

HB

 

[Adrian Bye]

Haitians have got to want to work and develop not just wait around for the next handout.

Until they get motivated they'll stay where they are, or continue being reduced by various calamities. Not every culture has to survive, just like species have natural selection.

 

[pedrochemical]

Haitians have got to want to work and develop not just wait around for the next handout.

Until they get motivated they'll stay where they are, or continue being reduced by various calamities. Not every culture has to survive, just like species have natural selection.

All Haitians want to do is work and feed their families.
As a nation they are one of the most conscientious people you could imagine.
Maybe this comes from there being a lack of organised work here, I do not know.

At the risk of making generalisations, Dominicans have a culture of sitting round at the colmado drinking Presidente and playing dominoes - a bit like me - they work to live rather than live to work - that is one of the nice things about the country.

The Haitians in Haiti very much do not.

The idea that they are happy to sit around and wait for handouts is completely wrong.
They are incredibly motivated.
Come here and see for yourself.

 

[Adrian Bye]

The idea that they are happy to sit around and wait for handouts is completely wrong.
They are incredibly motivated.

So how can that motivation be harnessed into building economic value?

 

[Chip]

Most communities in the world have had to adapt and adopt in order to flourish and sometimes even to survive. For example my prevalent ancestors learned from the Romans who learned from the Greeks who learned from...

Unfortunately Haiti has not learned from this and has rejected Western influence from the very beginning of it's existence. While this is quite understanding it has been nonetheless disastrous in terms of it's development.

What I see as how this can actually change is if the foreign donors create infrastructure and employ Western educated Haitian professionals living abroad to help with the design and construction and stay for the maintenance of said. Therefore, a real cadre of professional can begin to grow.

All advanced societies require a level of infrastructure, something Haiti currently has little of. It is ironic too that much of the infrastructure (roads, sewer and water) that we have in the Western world today has it's roots from Africa and close by.

 

[pedrochemical]

So how can that motivation be harnessed into building economic value?

Normally I am not a fan of the capitalist machine as I was brought up in the north of England during the Thatcher years. That being said, I have been forced to grow up in recent years - I have a family to feed.

With that in mind, what I have seen work in Haiti is petty capitalism.

We started a business and made money, employed people and developed employees as contractors who in turn now employ people. The cycle continues. This was do one for one reason only and not out of the goodness of our cynical hearts - the bottom line, filthy luca, cash, money, dough, profit.
In Haiti I have an innate distrust of non-profit organisations or indeed any organisation that cannot sustain itself financially. People need jobs which means people need to start businesses.
FONKOZE and other micro finance operations do excellent work lending money to individuals and groups to start their own businesses.
I always hear that investors will not come here as business is tough to do here without electricity and roads, security and transparent institutions.
That may be true to a certain extent.
But it is possible - we proved it. All you need is a pair of balls and a sense of humour.
We are totally independent, private individuals winning contracts, performing well and building a reputation. The quake put a kink in that model but onwards and upwards we go!

That, for me is how this thing could start, continue and succeed.

Sounds easy n'est pas

 

[pedrochemical]

When I say balls, I am talking metaphorically as there is absolutely no reason in the Haitian culture that women cannot do this.
In fact FONKOZE mainly lend to women in rural areas.

 

[Adrian Bye]

That, for me is how this thing could start, continue and succeed.

Sounds easy n'est pas

We're in complete agreement.

The Haitian government could help things along by fixing some of the anti-entrepreneur aspects of the legal system. They could sure learn from Delaware style incorporations.

 

[pedrochemical]

And the government could start collecting some more tax.
I have to pay only 2% which sucks - I should be made to pay 25%.

But as I commented to my buddy the other day, 2% seems like reasonable value

 

[mountainannie]

Press Release from Chavannes Jean Baptiste

Open Letter from Chavannes,
Translated from Spanish


Comrades,

There is a dangerous new earthquake more dangerous for the long-term than than which occurred on January 12. It is not a threat but a very strong attack on peasant agriculture, on the farmers, on biodiversity, on native seeds that we are defending, on what remains of our environment in Haiti.

The Haitian government is using the earthquake to sell or give away the country to the imperialist forces and their principal instruments which are the multinationals. La Via Campesina identified the transnationals as one of the most powerful enemies of the people, and the pesticide businesses as principal enemies of peasant agriculture, the environment in general and the climate in particular.

I remember at the last meeting of the CCI, I said that in Haiti, our campaign against the transnationals begins with the struggle against the agrofuels businesses because the people do not know much about Monsanto, which still doesn't have operations in Haiti. The news of Monsanto's presence through WINNER and USAID arrived about 15 days after COCHABAMBA.

Monsanto is using the earthquake with the anti-national criminal complicity of the government of Rene Preval to enter Haiti to enter through a "gift of death," which is 475 tons of GMO maize. This gift of death has as its objective: to open the door of the country to this powerful company that is destroying the planet, which is destroying peasant agriculture, with the farmers.

We cannot accept that. We must begin to mobilize against this project, against Monsanto in Haiti. We need a strong unit in Haiti and a strong international solidarity to confront Monsanto and all the forces of death that want to end the full sovereignty of this small country that took its independence in the blood of its sons and daughters since 1804.

The MPP gave the sign of the struggle with a statement on RADIO (VWA Peyizan) VOICE OF THE PEASANTS and other Radios asking farmers to bury and burn all the maize seeds given by the Ministry of Agriculture. We are planning a big march from the CEDE of the MPP of Papaye to the city of Hinche on the occasion of International Environment Day on June 5. We will make the march on Friday June 4th. We will invite the the organizations of the LVC and others to be present. It's one step among many that we must take.

We will contact all the peasant organizations and allied organizations to design the strategy of struggle. We ask now for the solidarity of sister organizations and international allies.

LONG LIVE HAITI'S SOVEREIGNTY, LONG LIVE FOOD SOVEREIGNTY, LONG LIVE THE RIGHTS OF THE MOTHER LAND, LONG LIVE THE PEOPLE'S SOLIDARITY!

ORGANIZATION OR DEATH.

Chavannes Jean-Baptiste
Spokesman for the MPP and MPNKP
Member of the CCI of LVC

 

[Chip]

With attitudes like this no wonder Haiti can't progress.

 

[PeterInBrat]

More on Chavannes Jean-Baptiste:

t r u t h o u t | Haitian Farmers Resist GM Crops, Environmental Destruction

It seems to me there is more money in Haitian mangos than corn...

 

[PeterInBrat]

I talked with an exporter who told me that 200,000 cases of Haitian [Madame] Fran?ique mangos are sold in five square kilometers in Manhattan. That means that there is an enormous market for mangoes in the U.S., which could also help us combat deforestation.

--Chavannes Jean-Baptiste

I've read there have been a couple assassination attempts on him and that he has at times lived in exile. There is very little info on him on the easy to find websites. Can someone fill me in on this guy? It sounds like he has worked for decades trying to combat deforestation and encouraging sustainable farming systems. Does he have any kind of website in English?

 

[greydread]

With attitudes like this no wonder Haiti can't progress.

Why?

Because they choose organic, self sustaining farming methods over laboratory designed "frankenfoods" which can't germinate and are developed specifically to make farmers dependent on their seed?

This MPP initiative should not only be encouraged in Haiti but it's principles should be exported to the "developed" nations which have allowed big agro-business ventures to push hundreds of thousands of family farms into bancruptcy and pollute our food supply with carcinogens, steroids and additives. The FDA should be abolished for allowing them to market this garbage.

People in the US are wising up little by little and supporting Farmers' Markets in every major metropolitan center in the US, creating a generation of new small farmers and turning away from companies like Monsanto so I guess they're shifting their target clientelle demographic to unsuspecting, poorer countries.

It's lunchtime here and I'm going to go out and find myself a Haitian mango right now...

 

[Chip]

Why?

Because they choose organic, self sustaining farming methods over laboratory designed "frankenfoods" which can't germinate and are developed specifically to make farmers dependent on their seed?

We're talking about Haiti. If you think we should just wait until they are able to be self sustainable by this method I would say you care little for Haitians who go hungry on a daily basis. What a humanitarian you are.

This MPP initiative should not only be encouraged in Haiti but it's principles should be exported to the "developed" nations which have allowed big agro-business ventures to push hundreds of thousands of family farms into bancruptcy and pollute our food supply with carcinogens, steroids and additives. The FDA should be abolished for allowing them to market this garbage..

We're talking about Haiti and it's inability to feed itself right now. At any rate your summary is just a pc oversimplification at best. When you find another system in the world that has allowed it's people to spend a disproportionately small amount of money on food and for relatively little impact on the environment of similar scale let me know.

 

[greydread]

When you find another system in the world that has allowed it's people to spend a disproportionately small amount of money on food and for relatively little impact on the environment of similar scale let me know.

You still don't get it do you? There's food and then there's nutrition. They're not always the same.


World's Healthiest Countries - Forbes.com

All that cheap garbage with the pesticides, preservatives, additives and residue that [Humongo-Globo-Agro] is pushing is seriously reducing our collective quality of life.

Want to help Haiti?

Do send and distribute staples and farming equipment until they can get on their feet in a few growing seasons and provide a duty free market for their product for a period of time until they can become competitive in global markets again.

Don't send "Frankenfood" seeds and Monsanto exec's.

 

[mountainannie]

greydred 40
chip love

 

[PeterInBrat]

I would like to see something like the Black Iberian pig introduced into the country. It can forage well, it's disease resitant and the quality of meat is far superior to that of factory-farmed pigs. It also comes from a very similar stock as the traditional Creole pig which had been on the island for some 500 years and was the foundation of the informal rural economy.

As for Haitians being suspicous of foreign corporations, can anyone cite an "innovation" in improving their food supply that has worked on any level at all?

Introducing new crops has always been problematic. It's really only in the last hundred years or so that tomatoes have become popular on the US mainland and among Anglo-Saxons, and it took over a hundred years before the potato was fully accepted across Europe. Now Monsanto wants to introduce some new seeds to the Haitians and they are perplexed as to why they are suspicious.

What works with introducing new technology? Putting your money where your mouth is. Monsanto should lease some land, hire locals to work it and be able to demonstrate a profit enough to continue on the next year. If they can't do that, they surely can't expect the Haitians to be able manage it on their own.