Visa Fraud...How does it work?

[mountainannie]

illegal.... or just visiting?

Interesting. This may raise the question about what is the heavier non-crime since we seem to discuss that "illegal" is not automatically "crime";

• Entering a country illegally (sneaking thru the chicken wire or swimming across Rio Grande)?
• By not returning within the visa stated time frame, in fact fraudulently using a "tourist" visa to gain entry and stay, work illegally etc. In other words, also obtaining a visa type on untruthful application?
• Obtaining a visa fraudulently (inside job/connection, using false documents, etc)?

I can understand that some may argue that entering a country "illegally" or "just" overstaying is not a crime. After all, just overstaying is usually not creating much of a damage. Yet, I think that only a small one digit percentage of those who overstay their visa for longer than just a few days, will not eventually seek work (at best that) basically taking away jobs from nationals and eventually, once they run into trouble one way or another become a burden to that country's social system (even if it's just that they wind up in jail). As long no criminal activities are involved, all this illegal behavior may still not be qualified as a crime, but I would be surprised to hear that most could not understand why some still recent that.

... J-D.

I think it very wise to break this down a bit.... since yes, clearly, there are shades of gray here.

The visa stuff into the US is WAY more complicated than I ever imagined...
since I never had to get one.....

Spent some mind numbing minutes on the government website.

forgetaboutit

could not understand a thing
and with all that they were saying this was to make it easier for immigrants!
hello?

So then just a general search turned up this,

Does anyone know the penalty for overstaying a visa in the USA? - Yahoo! Answers

so you are clear for about 180 days.... then you start getting banned for a period of time, then well

one day you wake up and notice---
wow, I have been here 16 years and then they really cannot hope to go back and ever return to the US.... the trigger is the leaving.

Despite all the deportations... and I know that there are at least 30,000 Haitians awaiting final deportation orders... and HALF of them have criminal records...(don't know about Dominicans who are NOT criminals).. i have not heard of any vast INS sweeps going on in the US, even after the Patriot Act.

But I agree that the mere fact that you are illegal is going to mean that you are going to have to go underground and break other laws to survive... forge or purchase false IDs and SSNs in order to work... or turn to crime or

how else are you going to survive?

 

[J D Sauser]

Pre 9-11 it was, especially in some States, quite easy to get quite legally equipped with the necessary papers without resorting to falsification:

In most States one could obtain a driver's license by taking a test and showing a passport (you could technically already have been overstaying). Later but still pre 9-11, some States would require a SSN to apply for a DL. So people went to the SS office and asked for one and got one. On it, it would say "Not valid for work". Same card, same color, number in no way leaving a clue about the non-resident status of the card holder!
This is where most would go to Miami, New York or any of the cities bigon immigration and find the "connected guys" and ask for just a small but very important "paper"; a faked version of their original SS-card, only this time WITHOUT the mention "Not valid for work". Many times, these were printed on ORIGINAL (stolen) paper.
With that, they could apply for work, work and even pay taxes! The old many times cluttered US administrative systems, not even the SS or Revenue services would pick up on the fact that they were perceiving payroll taxes from somebody who was NOT allowed to work.

Illegal yes, maybe some may want to call it "non-legal", since there seems to be the perception that the failure of being completely legal does not automatically constitute "crime".

Still, I suspect that the OP's question was meant as an inquiry about to HOW applicants obtain a visa fraudulently rather than finding out about illegal activities in the target country.

... J-D.

 

[mountainannie]

still, that was good info, JD, thanks for posting!

 

[J D Sauser]

still, that was good info, JD, thanks for posting!

Well MA, it's DATED info. Since after 9-11 that has little by little all become much more difficult. Now, somebody NOT being within a visa allowed time will find almost impossible to even get a driver's license... A fact which has stirred up quite some controversy since now, many newer illegals are forced either not to drive (the legal thing to do then) or drive without a valid legal driver license... some being not very good at it because they have not ever learned to drive and secondly making it easier for insurance companies to deny or limit the scope of claims in the case of accidents. All, because in the US, a driver license also doubles as THE ID card.

... J-D.

 

[bienamor]

And

now that we have obtained a false document ie SSN you have commented a crime
And they can be caught with E-Verify.

Example was the Chicken (Tyson)operation in Iowa that had employees with in sequence SSN's, just a coincidence, 1 maybe 2, but a 100 no way. Others have applied with a death certificate of some body that died at or shortly after birth, and would now be the same age as the applicate.

Since when is civil infraction not a crime? just not a criminal act.

hr4437 is not a law was never approved by both houses. Should have been. but was not.

 

[ExtremeR]

Illegal entry in itself is about as harmful as J-walking, fishing without a licsense, or double parking. However, although a law is not necessarily "right", it is inadvisable to break those laws, as doing so could jeopordize any legitimate opportunities of immigrating.

Citizenship is a funny thing, in that by being born in a particular place, some people feel superior and entitled to more than others. The only people who pick citizenship, find a place which they wish to allign themselves are immigrants - those born somewhere never had that choice. It could be argued that a naturalized citizen is more "american", "canadian", etc. than a born citizen.

There are countless of those cases right here in DR1, they feel that because they got the luck to be born in the great country the USA is, they could be looking down on others, or feel entitled to boss others what to do. Illegal immigration has it's disadvantages for the host country, it pressures the social services in said country, and a few of those illegals may commit crimes in the US. But from there to try to satanize them is a stretch I believe.

Good post Uruguayo.

 

[bob saunders]

There are countless of those cases right here in DR1, they feel that because they got the luck to be born in the great country the USA is, they could be looking down on others, or feel entitled to boss others what to do. Illegal immigration has it's disadvantages for the host country, it pressures the social services in said country, and a few of those illegals may commit crimes in the US. But from there to try to satanize them is a stretch I believe.

Good post Uruguayo.

So going with what Uruguayo said and you agreeing with him why have borders or citenship at all. After all we are all humans living in a global world. We should all share and be equally poor or rich. Lovely pie in the sky therory simular the Humanist Manifesto II which I happen to agree with many of the principils, such as reasoning and intellect will do more to save the human race than all the praying to an unsen god, but that?s another subject. Legal immigration allows a country to let in desireable immigrants, and with the family unification policy of many countries allows for many people to improve their lot in life. Because illegal immigrants need to stay off the government radar they are forced to or chose to either work at slave wages or engage in crimes. This is a personal choice and the indivual needs to take full responsibility for their action. Commit a small crime, get away with it, not have a strong moral and ethical upbringing they now commit a larger crime. Uruguayo is wrong when he says it?s not a crime to break what you see as a unjust law. There are good reasons for those laws and they are just. The application of the law is not aways just. My rant.

 

[J D Sauser]

Illegal entry in itself is about as harmful as J-walking, fishing without a licsense, or double parking. However, although a law is not necessarily "right", it is inadvisable to break those laws, as doing so could jeopordize any legitimate opportunities of immigrating.

Citizenship is a funny thing, in that by being born in a particular place, some people feel superior and entitled to more than others. The only people who pick citizenship, find a place which they wish to allign themselves are immigrants - those born somewhere never had that choice. It could be argued that a naturalized citizen is more "american", "canadian", etc. than a born citizen.

I don't completely disagree with the core message of above post. Except for the part where it seems implied that it is only Americans and some Europeans who feel so proud about their lucky draw. Something which can give the whole message a rather strangely one sided twist. Then actually, some people born in the poorest and most difficult countries display quite some pride about their origins too. Dominicans, are no exception, rather an ideal example of that.
I must admit, I have been lucky with my country of birth and nationality. We were not much raised to feel national pride so maybe that's why I always found it a little bit funny when people of other countries could rave about how proud they could be being for this or that country.
I think one should be proud of what one has done, made, had success with rather than what one had no control over, like being born somewhere.
Yes, some who have chosen a citizenship may indeed be "more" national than those who just crawled out of their crib as nationals by luck or destination. Some, but so many again not, which have just sought to gain citizenship for comfort, safety, or many other not so patriotic reasons.

But then too, why could some nations look down upon others? Could it not be that some nations, by virtue of a long culture and lifestyle much based on "pioneerism", work and patriotic dedication have managed to create a country so successful many want to come and live in it? Are those who feel so attracted to such a country really all like minded people who want to contribute, help building that country further, or are not, at least many of them just coming in hopes to reap the rewards? Is it not understandable, that those nations who managed to consistently build and keep a successful and attractive county try to protect it from those who may just want to come, sit down and "use" it to their comfort? After all, have the majority of these immigrants really even done something for their own country or are they leaving because they feel they don't get enough in their country and believe they will get more where the grass is greener?
Don't not ALL countries suffer from the same problem, with immigration from a poorer country? The DR does! And if "looking down upon" is the new subject here... well, what a great example! And also, what a great example it is to show the problems it can create, when one nation is pushing into a another country, to work illegally, using the sometimes frail social services structure of their target country in an almost industrial fashion.

I am not saying that everywhere there is not racism, classicism, blurred nationalistic pseudo patriotic rage and unwarranted pride. But once one has reached an age where one can claim to have contributed to the state of his country, I think one has a right to ask it's guest to please respect it and that if they like so much that country has to offer, well, go to their own country and at least first try to build one like it or better.

On the other hand, lets not forget that most countries, have economies which here and there DEPEND on illegal workers. Not just the DR, but some parts of developed nations too.

... J-D.

 

[leeanna]

12 years still trying to get to the US!

Hi Minerva,
My husband and I have been trying t get his visa for 12 years.First time he applied was after we had our twins in 1999.The problem is we thought honesty was the best policy,and told the consulate that he had two American kids.We found out later that was our biggest mistake.As my kids are American,the consulate see's that as a reason for my husband to stay there and not come back.In reality we had a buisness here and I just wanted that he could come with me to see family.Its hard to travel with two babies!I am not American,I lived there since I was 14 but never changed my residency to citizenship,to do that now I have to live and work there and wait 5 years!.So he tried many time to get a visitors visa,but we always got the big no!!We recently had our third child,and I have now been stuck in this country for 12 years.I don't want to break our family by moving to the US without him, besides,he is the one with the capacity to make alot of money in the state with his profession,but here he only make $12,000.oo pesos.Imagine how difficult it is for us to take care of three kids on that sueldo!!!I can't work because of the baby.We are really in a bad position and I really feel like i am in jail.In case you are wondering my place of residence is Australia,but I never lived there and it is half way around the world.At leasst here ,I can visit my family in the USA twice a year.If any one reading this can help,please let me know.By the way,they say he can be sposored for work,but the funny thing is,how can he meet the people to sponsor him,if they don't let him go to the US to meet them!!And the last most screwed up is the kids can sponsor him,Yes,but when they are 21 years old!! It's now they need him to be there,not when they are 21,they don't need him when they are 21!!!!!

 

[Chip]

Matrimonio por negocio is still alive and well here in the DR and the US.

I have a couple of family memebers that made it to NY, one by a visa long expired and the other by yola to Miami.

I often wonder how happy they are making US500 a week at most cleaning floors and stocking goods.

No wonder so many of these types get involved in drugs in NY, what with the ever perpetuated lies that money grows on trees in nuevaiyol. It has to be a really cold hard slap in the face to realize the real truth; you have to work long hours for peanuts incl weekends and no doubt have to sleep in a rat infested apartment complex. I suppose the consolation is that you can have an ipod and that everyone back home thinks you "made" it. Of course, then there all all them gringas about, oh well maybe it is worth it.

 

[las2137]

... i have not heard of any vast INS sweeps going on in the US, even after the Patriot Act.

There have been several large, well-documented ICE raids in recent years. The most famous being in Postville, IA, where 10% of the residents of a small Iowan town were arrested in the raid of a Kosher food factory.

Immigration Raid Jars a Small Town: Critics Say Employers Should Be Targeted. (This article is quite interesting, since it details how a corrupt employer was allowed to break the law again and again.)

and


U.S. immigration cops nab 595 in largest-ever raid

and

Conflicting Accounts of an ICE Raid in Md. (This one has an interesting video with footage of a raid and an innocent man who got swept up on it.)

to name a few.

 

[Chip]

These raids are just window dressing. The US system can't handle the number of illegals. This is a fact of life the world throughout and has been for a very long time. Many Americans don't care or only do when the issue causes them to think about it - even when erroneous information is the cause, like illegals have anything to do with the security of the country.

The problem is when you get people to start thinking about it naturally their American sensibility with regard to respect of law is piqued and they feel offended by the gross abuses of the system.

At the end of the day, century, millenia, nothing will change.

 

[cinderelli1]

I know someone who was married in the DR this last spring. I recently talked to them and asked if the DR was in the US yet. The answer was no that it will be awhile. But the DR they said has diplomatic imunity and can come and go as they please in the US. All I had to say was that I dont understand why someone would want to marry another and not be there. This marraige took place 6 months ago. Am I missing something here?

 

[tflea]

where to start?

This post has certainly brought out some very misinformed people on immigrations and legal issues. wow is all I can say.

 

[tflea]

correction, saying more

Not applying to all posters in a broad brush of course. With some I agree.
Did you know that there is an average of about 800 visa applicants per DAY at the US Consulate in SDQ? It is the 3rd busiest in the WORLD.
And their website does say why people will be denied approval.
If it says you need 'x' and you don't have 'x', it's a reject.
And after seeing about 150-200 people per day, every day, one gets a fairly good idea of those not eligible I imagine, there is no secret or homeland security gobbledy-gook directing them. Obviously with that many applicants some deserving applicants will get rejected. But that is not the rule, it is the exception. Those deserving a visitors visa should not blame the US system, it is their own countrymen who have applied and lied before them that make it difficult. And as previously stated, the US has more legal visa approvals per year than all other countries combined.
And, it is illegal to lie on an application.
That's an automatic reject as well.

 

[ExtremeR]

Not applying to all posters in a broad brush of course. With some I agree.
Did you know that there is an average of about 800 visa applicants per DAY at the US Consulate in SDQ? It is the 3rd busiest in the WORLD.
And their website does say why people will be denied approval.
If it says you need 'x' and you don't have 'x', it's a reject.
And after seeing about 150-200 people per day, every day, one gets a fairly good idea of those not eligible I imagine, there is no secret or homeland security gobbledy-gook directing them. Obviously with that many applicants some deserving applicants will get rejected. But that is not the rule, it is the exception. Those deserving a visitors visa should not blame the US system, it is their own countrymen who have applied and lied before them that make it difficult. And as previously stated, the US has more legal visa approvals per year than all other countries combined.
And, it is illegal to lie on an application.
That's an automatic reject as well.

Let me guess, you work at the US consulate in Santo Domingo?? I have had several friends who have tried for the visa, with good income, good jobs, properties, and they are denied in the fact that they are too young and single, does it says that in their website??

State the facts my friend. The source of income from those 800 daily visitors at US$147 a head is what keeps them from saying that if you are young and single, nevermind affluent, you will be denied.

 

[tflea]

Young & Affluent

#1 - i don't work there.
#2- someone young and single is a red flag, regardless, and with good reason.

Do you not understand why?

 

[ExtremeR]

I am not saying that everywhere there is not racism, classicism, blurred nationalistic pseudo patriotic rage and unwarranted pride. But once one has reached an age where one can claim to have contributed to the state of his country, I think one has a right to ask it's guest to please respect it and that if they like so much that country has to offer, well, go to their own country and at least first try to build one like it or better.

... J-D.

No offense, but would lead by example JD, or does your age also entitle you to live whetever you please??

 

[ExtremeR]

#1 - i don't work there.
#2- someone young and single is a red flag, regardless, and with good reason.

Do you not understand why?

First you said all that it is stated in the website, and now you say we should assume is a red flag, nevermind the applicant having a good job and properties. Get your facts straight.

Most of them earns really good money, well at least my friends, I don't see the reason to try to immigrate to the US. They earn up to US$1,600 monthly in the DR, working in banks as IT departments managers and such. You guys tend to look the Dominicans as the motoconchista you take in Sosua, or the guaguero you see in the main avenues. There are lots of young people in the DR who went to college, got a good degree and scored good jobs. I know is hard to understand that, but it is the reality in the DR too.

 

[bachata]

Is that true??? Did it really get created by Dominicans???

Yup this guy is from the same naighborhood I grew up in santiago.
I know him on person, I think he is in jail in DR I have'nt seen him for a long time his nik name is "Yayo".

JJ