Wall of Factories

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cobraboy

Guest
The investment has to be in Haiti for the government over there to be an issue at all. The fact is that most of the factories are on the DR side of the border while using an overwhelmingly Haitian workforce. I wish people would use an actual map instead of Google Maps and notice that the Dajabon River is in most area at the border and in some area to the east of the border. At no point in the Dajabon province does some land east of the river is part of Haiti. Google Maps show the factories to be in Haiti when they are not.

The other issue is what will be done with all the other Haitians who will move to the border from many areas of Haiti looking for their piece too and not find it? The border is so close by and in most areas wide open and porous.
Haitians on the payroll helps Haiti regardless where the factory is located. Jobs on the border slow down economic refugees. Those who go to the border and don't find jobs is no reason to not put a free zone there.
 
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cobraboy

Guest
I was involved with a company in Haiti many years ago. To say it was difficult would be an understatement.

Many of the employees had never used a toilet or a sink before. Getting them to concentrate on their particular task was a gargantuan effort.

Many times a trained employee would do their task correctly for a day or two, then arbitrarily decide they would do it however they wanted. Unless a quality control person or lead was close by an operator could do a lot of inferior work.
On a different scale in a different place, I can identify with your experience.

It takes time for workers to catch on if they never had to before.

There was a re-training program Bill Clinton implemented on which I got on board, hiring the chronically unemployed, training them with the help of a subsidized wage.

It was tough sledding.

I even gave away simple alarm clocks. Many had no idea what they were.

Of 100 trained, maybe 10 stuck. Of those 10, maybe half "got it" and worked themselves out of their poor situation permanently.

But it's worth the effort to help even a small %. Some *want* a better life, and avail themselves of opportunities. To others, it's just too hard to get up early and be diligent for somebody else.

My Haitian contact is a young man, 32 y.o., who is one of the most diligent, honest and productive people I've ever known. He's done a fantastic job for us. He comes from a poor background but has "made it" out of sheer determination, education and savvy.

A friend own a free zone company in La Vega. He likes to hire legal Haitians. He has many with him for years. He claims they are hard workers, great with their hands, do excellent complex work and are appreciative of the work.
 
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Naked_Snake

Guest
Haitians on the payroll helps Haiti regardless where the factory is located. Jobs on the border slow down economic refugees. Those who go to the border and don't find jobs is no reason to not put a free zone there.
As much as I applaud the initiative, I'll have to side with NAL's and his misgivings on this one. Given the fraught diplomatic history between both countries (specially taking into account how the Haitian gov. has never respected the prior border agreements before the "final" one of 1929), there is no guarantee that the Haitian gov. wouldn't call for a "renegotiation" (read, demands to push their side of the fence further Eastward) if our border provinces were to become further settled by its nationals as a consecuence of this initiative. Heck, even without this initiative, I am counting on them to do so on the next decade, as soon as their country gets to achieve some stability, if ever.
 
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cobraboy

Guest
As much as I applaud the initiative, I'll have to side with NAL's and his misgivings on this one. Given the fraught diplomatic history between both countries (specially taking into account how the Haitian gov. has never respected the prior border agreements before the "final" one of 1929), there is no guarantee that the Haitian gov. wouldn't call for a "renegotiation" (read, demands to push their side of the fence further Eastward) if our border provinces were to become further settled by its nationals as a consecuence of this initiative. Heck, even without this initiative, I am counting on them to do so on the next decade, as soon as their country gets to achieve some stability, if ever.
No disagreement. The situation is a mess and future corruption could just add to it.

When you go to the border, there doesn't seem to be a border, really, even with military presence. Yeah, a gate, but look past the gate and folks are walking across the border at will. I mention Dajabon and Jimini specifically, the two crossings of which I have experience.

Certainly, nothing will get better in Haiti until there is more institutional stability. In the meantime, Haitian jobs at a border Free Zone is a help...and it is far away from PaP, so more removed from the angst...
 
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beeza

Guest
A nice idea. Could it lead to the eventual unification of Hispaniola? Never. The Dominicans would never allow it. How many islands with shared nations live in harmony? Ireland, Cyprus, Borneo, Timor? All have history of violence.
 
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Caonabo

Guest
A nice idea. Could it lead to the eventual unification of Hispaniola? Never. The Dominicans would never allow it. How many islands with shared nations live in harmony? Ireland, Cyprus, Borneo, Timor? All have history of violence.
Unification of Hispaniola is NOT on the table with this proposition.
 
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NALs

Guest
It's going to happen. There is no question about it.

As the presence of Haitians has grown in the DR, so too the pressure against Dominicans in favor of Haitians. I don't think that is a coincidence. I can only imagine what it will be like when most Dominicans are able to trace back to Haiti, either through knowing their ancestors or through DNA analysis such as 23andme which links distant relatives. There are many people that already think that is a reality, but it isn't yet for most people. Yes, the DR has experienced a population change, but further mixture, migration rates, and higher birth rates explains much of that. Wait when they believers of the theory that the change is due overwhelmingly to Haitian migration also have the genetic evidence to back it up. I also have no doubt that descendants of Haitians will out number Dominicans in Dominican land and they decide everything that will happen to the land.

It may not happen tomorrow, but it will happen eventually. If Haiti wasn't such a messed up place it would simply be a political issue.
 
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cobraboy

Guest
It's going to happen. There is no question about it.

As the presence of Haitians has grown in the DR, so too the pressure against Dominicans in favor of Haitians. I don't think that is a coincidence. I can only imagine what it will be like when most Dominicans are able to trace back to Haiti, either through knowing their ancestors or through DNA analysis such as 23andme which links distant relatives. There are many people that already think that is a reality, but it isn't yet for most people. Yes, the DR has experienced a population change, but further mixture, migration rates, and higher birth rates explains much of that. Wait when they believers of the theory that the change is due overwhelmingly to Haitian migration also have the genetic evidence to back it up. I also have no doubt that descendants of Haitians will out number Dominicans in Dominican land and they decide everything that will happen to the land.

It may not happen tomorrow, but it will happen eventually. If Haiti wasn't such a messed up place it would simply be a political issue.
There will be a bloody war before a one-country unification.
 
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NALs

Guest
While Dominicans are a majority in Dominican land, yes. That has always been the case, even during the time of Haitian Domination that lasted 22 years.

Lets see how it panders out with a change in that aspect. It has never happened in the DR and by all appearances, it's heading towards that reality.
 
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Onions/Carrots

Guest
Heck, even without this initiative, I am counting on them to do so on the next decade, as soon as their country gets to achieve some stability, if ever.
Haiti had its chance in the 19th century when they ruled Hispaniola and raped, looted and plundered the Dominican Republic at will. They entered the Dominican Republic whenever they felt like it with little to no resistance. They ruled for 22 years. If they weren't able to capitalize on that to become the dominant power today, its too late now to ever achieve stability, functionality or operational capacity.

You can build all the schools you want, attempt an orderly transition of power as much as you want, engage the populace as much as you like and they're done. They've past the ecological tipping point from which no amount of NGO work can undo. Their economic and political structure will just disintegrate completely in time as their ecology demands it. They've mismanaged and destroyed what they gained from independence.
 
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Meemselle

Guest
A nice idea. Could it lead to the eventual unification of Hispaniola? Never. The Dominicans would never allow it. How many islands with shared nations live in harmony? Ireland, Cyprus, Borneo, Timor? All have history of violence.
St. Martin/St. Maarten comes to mind.