whats going on in La Ciénaga today???

windeguy

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Jul 10, 2004
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I highly doubt they’d finally go to all this trouble unless there was money to be made.

“Protected wetlands”, “natural habitat”, “biodiversity”...my left foot.
I am surprised the government took any action at all there. Instead, I just expected growth to continue until it hit Sosua.
It would be a lot of trouble to relocate the thousands of people squatting there.

It is doubtful more houses will be removed from the wetlands of La Cienaga.
 

cavok

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Jun 16, 2014
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I think it's just speculation to think any government official had anything to do with the sale or approval of those particular lots. You can see from the video in the other thread that the government went in and paved the roads right up to where those houses were.

I doubt the government will be forcing any more people to relocate. Those people were either outright squatters, or some crook selling off parcels he maybe didn't even own.
 

windeguy

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Jul 10, 2004
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I think it's just speculation to think any government official had anything to do with the sale or approval of those particular lots. You can see from the video in the other thread that the government went in and paved the roads right up to where those houses were.

I doubt the government will be forcing any more people to relocate. Those people were either outright squatters, or some crook selling off parcels he maybe didn't even own.
Speculation? No it is not speculation that a former mayor of Cabarete enabled this. Hundreds of trucks went down La Cienaga road to fill in wetlands. The people squatting there did not pay for that fill nor drive those trucks.

Your comment is about a Mayor elected recently who paved the roads, with another mayor (also useless and corrupt) in between them and the one who enabled the growth of La Cienaga.

The recent actions did not come from Cabarete or its Mayor. They came from the Medio Ambiente office of the Dominican Republic in Santo Domingo, by the way,
 

cavok

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Speculation? No it is not speculation that a former mayor of Cabarete enabled this. Hundreds of trucks went down La Cienaga road to fill in wetlands. The people squatting there did not pay for that fill nor drive those trucks.
It's pretty obvious that the houses built on the paved roads were built on filled in land as you said. I'm referring to the land were there shacks were removed. That is basically swamp. I don't see any sign of fill there and I'm guessing that many of the shacks were put there after the roads were paved.
 

JD Jones

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Jan 7, 2016
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Here is a few sanctimonious words. All of these people knew deep down that they were just buying into a temporary living arrangement. None truly believed that they were the actually owners of real property. Their skill in collectively showing outrage at the government is all in their script. Living and squatting anywhere under those conditions and circumstances has a expiration date. Build a house or shack on vacant land and maybe you can squeeze a few years out or a few months. Using children and the elderly as a tool for sympathy is a specialty here.
I could write a small book about squatters here. It is actually a fairly complex subject but most of the parts of it have been posted here at one time or another in bits and pieces
.
One can see in the video that many of the shacks being demolished are no more than a few sticks and zinc sheets that were thrown together in a matter of a few hours.

Not houses by a long shot, just primitive attempts at staking a claim. Note each of those thrown together shelters (empty, of course) are on a large piece of land, while if you look at the rest of the area homes are literally inches apart. That should tell you something.

Most of those knew something was in the works and just tried to jump on the bandwagon. Professional squatters.

They are folks trying to take advantage of govt. sympathy and hoping they can be given an apartment, which they turn around and sell.

The practice of giving notice was halted many years ago. The only thing giving notice accomplished was to quadruple the number of people who would be there on the announced day including politicians and activists like Padre Rogelio and others who take the opportunity to use the platform to push their own agendas.

As Big says, they know their time is numbered from the moment they start bringing in scrap materials to build their lean-to.
 
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windeguy

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It's pretty obvious that the houses built on the paved roads were built on filled in land as you said. I'm referring to the land were there shacks were removed. That is basically swamp. I don't see any sign of fill there and I'm guessing that many of the shacks were put there after the roads were paved.
I cannot speculate on how far the swamp, or the actual border of the public park protected wetlands, used to be from that newly paved road is.
I did see many hundreds of trucks of fill go down La Cienaga road while the mayor who saw jail time was in power.
 

william webster

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Jan 16, 2009
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If anyone thinks this is the first time these people have thrown together a house on someone else's land

Think again....

I'm not saying 'professional squatters'............... experienced perhaps

As they say in Texas - not their first rodeo......

They're already off to greener pastures...... check your vacant lands !!
 

cavok

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I cannot speculate on how far the swamp, or the actual border of the public park protected wetlands, used to be from that newly paved road is.
I did see many hundreds of trucks of fill go down La Cienaga road while the mayor who saw jail time was in power.
I have heard those stories, too, and I have no doubt that is the case of the majority of the properties there. That happened many years ago. I'm just referring to the parcel of land where these shacks were. I see no sign of any fill having been done there. Those shacks could have easily been put up fairly recently. They don't remotely resemble most of the other houses in La Cienaga, however humble they may be.
 

Auryn

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Apr 22, 2012
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No it’s not a specialty, and no one is being used. It’s reality that those are the people who suffer the most in these situations.

Deslindes and titles are forged all the time. Ask anyone living in the DR how important it is to be careful when making a real estate purchase. Not all of them were intentionally squatting.
 
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cavok

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It should be fairly easy for any investigative reporter to check on the title of that small parcel, sales that occurred, and who the seller was.
 

cavok

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No it’s not a specialty, and no one is being used. It’s reality that those are the people who suffer the most in these situations.

Deslindes and titles are forged all the time. Ask anyone living in the DR how important it is to be careful when making a real estate purchase. Not all of them were intentionally squatting.
Deslinde just means "survey". Old ones were easily forged, but that is not the case with the current ones and the process you go through. It's my understanding that it's against the law to transfer a title without a deslinde since about 2009(?).
 

windeguy

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It should be fairly easy for any investigative reporter to check on the title of that small parcel, sales that occurred, and who the seller was.
You would think that, but it is no so easy to do. Looking through stacks of papers in the Puerto Plata land office would be the place to try and do it.

Having the exact physical demensions of El Choco National Park is where I would start in this case. If that exists, then compare that to where structures have been built on filled in wetlands.
 

windeguy

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Deslinde just means "survey". Old ones were easily forged, but that is not the case with the current ones and the process you go through. It's my understanding that it's against the law to transfer a title without a deslinde since about 2009(?).
There was a law that states selling property does require a deslinda, not sure of the date.
Some people thought it meant everyone, even those not selling, needed a deslinda right away, but that is not the case.
It is only needed when you sell the property that you need it and it takes time, and yes it is tedious to get and probably very difficult to forge now.
 

chico bill

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May 6, 2016
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Here is a few sanctimonious words. All of these people knew deep down that they were just buying into a temporary living arrangement. None truly believed that they were the actually owners of real property. Their skill in collectively showing outrage at the government is all in their script. Living and squatting anywhere under those conditions and circumstances has a expiration date. Build a house or shack on vacant land and maybe you can squeeze a few years out or a few months. Using children and the elderly as a tool for sympathy is a specialty here.
Glad you are so open minded. But imagine yourself born into some of the conditions of these people simply wanting a place to sleep on and old mattress out of the rain.
I bet your smugness would vaporize
 

Auryn

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Apr 22, 2012
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Deslinde just means "survey". Old ones were easily forged, but that is not the case with the current ones and the process you go through. It's my understanding that it's against the law to transfer a title without a deslinde since about 2009(?).
La Ciénaga has been around since long before that.
 

windeguy

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La Ciénaga has been around since long before that.
I am only too well aware of that, we were talking about when deslindas became a requirement to sell land.

I suspect there are few homes in La Cienaga that qualify for a deslinda today.
 

cavok

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You would think that, but it is no so easy to do. Looking through stacks of papers in the Puerto Plata land office would be the place to try and do it.

Having the exact physical demensions of El Choco National Park is where I would start in this case. If that exists, then compare that to where structures have been built on filled in wetlands.
Definitely not easy to do since most of the "surveys" for the lots in particular, as well as most of La Cienaga and El Choco National park are probably done by "meets and bounds", but any surveyor should be able to do it. They have to do it all the time.
 

Big

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Apr 24, 2019
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Glad you are so open minded. But imagine yourself born into some of the conditions of these people simply wanting a place to sleep on and old mattress out of the rain.
I bet your smugness would vaporize
"smugness" lets clear that up a tad. How about outright disdain (except for the kids). Too many other options for a healthy adult person to just sit on the side of the road on a moto all day, every day. It's done all over the world, sleeping on grates, under bridges and boardwalks. I know a better way to clear that neighborhood out. Offer them a low level job that pays 120 pesos an hour to stay, that place will be as abandon as a nuclear test site.
 

cavok

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There was a law that states selling property does require a deslinda, not sure of the date.
Some people thought it meant everyone, even those not selling, needed a deslinda right away, but that is not the case.
It is only needed when you sell the property that you need it and it takes time, and yes it is tedious to get and probably very difficult to forge now.
That's my understanding, too. Not very convenient to get one when you suddenly decide to sell. Not many buyers are going to wait for that to be done.