Why Are Dominicans So Apathetic?

[Robert]

The corruption is blatant and rife, thrown in their faces everyday.
They show emotion, but that's it, nothing more!

When and what will turn the apathy it action?

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Note: This is the debate forum, so be warned, personal attacks, ridiculous posts and thread hijacking will get a you a 1 week ban. So I suggest some of you engage brain before posting

 

[Frank the Tank]

They are conditioned to it. They complain and very few challenge the system without any luck. So the rest figure, why bother. Perhaps if the populace sees results from anyone who challenges the status quo, they will become more interested and involved. Until then, Eh pa'lante que vamos.

 

[Expat-in-Cabarete]

I asked this question to Dede Mirabal and another Dominican lady also visiting the Mirabal's museum. This lady said that they are afraid; they don't forget the Trujillo era to which Dede agreed. Surprisingly this Dominican lady was rather young so I asked why, you didn't experience it first hand. She responded, we learn enough in school about that era, and it still instills fear on us.

It may well be that it is not just apathy but some fear combined with being disillusioned with the system and a belief that their voices cannot bring about change.

 

[frank recktenwald]

Frank already explained most of it. Maybe if they take away their arroz y salami they might go into action.

 

[Matilda]

Because those who are corrupt have the money. You fight the corruption and you pay the price. You could be arrested on trumped up charges, have property confiscated, be threatened or killed. Who is going to fight when those are the risks you run. It is not apathy, it is well founded fear.

Matilda

 

[xamaicano]

Because the people who have the most power to affect change benefit the most from the corruption. I know the feeling.

 

[Rep Dom]

Corruption, influence, denies of justice... are worldwide. They just take various modalities. They are current in Europe or USA. Reports are permanents on TV and press. Do poeple do much about them. I'm not so sure...

 

[lafiera]

The corruption is blatant and rife, thrown in their faces everyday.
They show emotion, but that's it, nothing more!

When and what will turn the apathy it action?

===========

Note: This is the debate forum, so be warned, personal attacks, ridiculous posts and thread hijacking will get a you a 1 week ban. So I suggest some of you engage brain before posting

I'm doing my part.

 

[suarezn]

You grow up with it ingrained in you that "Hey if you can get into power you'd be a fool not to take advantage of it". They don't know any other way, never seen anything different so it's normal. For instance this idea that if MY party wins then all the government resources are OURS and we should fire everyone who doesn't belong to the winning party and all the jobs should only be given to "Companeros" be it Peledeistas or Perredeistas is seen as normal.

If you tell anyone that this is wrong, that the government resources belong to EVERYONE and jobs shouldn't have anything to do with what party the person belongs to they look at you like you're crazy...and this is not just the poor, uneducated who thinks this way. I've had loooong discussions about this with friends who master degrees or are Lawyers and Doctors and they still cannot even fathom it being any different.

The other reasons of course is that as you know Dominicans grow up with the concept of "Tigueraje" ingrained into us. It is celebrated since you're a baby and you're encouraged to be a "Tiguere" and not be a "Pariguayo". Haven't you heard people say about a kid "Wow ese va a ser un tiguere!!!" when the kid does something cute/smart. So in the minds of Dominicans these politicians are not thieves per se, they're just "Tigueres" who were smart enough to get their share of the spoils and of course any politician who turns out to be honest is considered a pariguayo for not taking advantage when he/she had the chance.

Lastly the other reason is because in the back of every Dominican's mind they think THEY may get THEIR turn at the trough some day. This is also the reason why no newly sworn government indicts anybody from the outgoing party, because it's like "Hey now you owe me one...just in case you're back in power one day..."

It would take a seismic shift for this to change. Unfortunately I don't see anyone in the horizon that will take this on in earnest. They will all pay lip service (Just like Leonel has), but no real action.

 

[amparocorp]

when i first started visiting the DR 23 years ago and the electric went out, nobody raised an eyebrow, it was just accepted. when the power would come back on everybody would scream "novellas" and run to the TV. there are generations that think the power going out is the way of the world................

 

[Frank the Tank]

You grow up with it ingrained in you that "Hey if you can get into power you'd be a fool not to take advantage of it". They don't know any other way, never seen anything different so it's normal. For instance this idea that if MY party wins then all the government resources are OURS and we should fire everyone who doesn't belong to the winning party and all the jobs should only be given to "Companeros" be it Peledeistas or Perredeistas is seen as normal.

If you tell anyone that this is wrong, that the government resources belong to EVERYONE and jobs shouldn't have anything to do with what party the person belongs to they look at you like you're crazy...and this is not just the poor, uneducated who thinks this way. I've had loooong discussions about this with friends who master degrees or are Lawyers and Doctors and they still cannot even fathom it being any different.

The other reasons of course is that as you know Dominicans grow up with the concept of "Tigueraje" ingrained into us. It is celebrated since you're a baby and you're encouraged to be a "Tiguere" and not be a "Pariguayo". Haven't you heard people say about a kid "Wow ese va a ser un tiguere!!!" when the kid does something cute/smart. So in the minds of Dominicans these politicians are not thieves per se, they're just "Tigueres" who were smart enough to get their share of the spoils and of course any politician who turns out to be honest is considered a pariguayo for not taking advantage when he/she had the chance.

Lastly the other reason is because in the back of every Dominican's mind they think THEY may get THEIR turn at the trough some day. This is also the reason why no newly sworn government indicts anybody from the outgoing party, because it's like "Hey now you owe me one...just in case you're back in power one day..."

It would take a seismic shift for this to change. Unfortunately I don't see anyone in the horizon that will take this on in earnest. They will all pay lip service (Just like Leonel has), but no real action.

That certainly is an interesting take on things and seems spot on. I was thinking to that lack of education had to do with apathy but reading your post has me rethinking it a little. Good post Suarzen.

 

[jh69]

I believe that Dominicans are just lazy and really do not care at all bout what is going on in the country. They are comfortable with getting things easily and not working hard for whats necessary. I also believe that since many Dominicans receive money from their relatives abroad they could careless as they have just enough to survive and this contributes to their laziness. It could also be that they are scared because as you know in the DR you mess with the wrong people you just might end up missing. I always say that they are under a Brugal induced coma, one which I don't see them getting out of anytime soon.

 

[playacaribe2]

Pure and simple.

Those that abhor apathy, corruption, etc. in the DR lack a charismatic/personable leader to rally around. Then they can harness/leverage the power that social media has given to many other movements in the so called Arab Spring. But even beyond that, look at Ghandi in India, Martin Luther King in the US, Lech Walesa who defied the Commnuists in Poland.

But, the DR does not lack for leaders. The problem is they all want to perpetuate their own corruption fiefdoms i.e transport unions, PLD, PRD, PRSC.

The closest thing I have seen to a real grass roots movement in the DR is the so called 4% for education.


Respectfully,
Playacaribe2

 

[JMB773]

Dominican Republic: God, FAMILY, Country.

USA: God, COUNTRY, Family.

When country is not right behind God corruption is allowed to take its place.

Dominican Republic: God, Family, Corruption.

 

[xamaicano]

Not to go off topic but there is a lot corruption in the US. Hell, the corruption here makes the corruption in the DR look amateurish.

Dominican Republic: God, FAMILY, Country.

USA: God, COUNTRY, Family.

When country is not right behind God corruption is allowed to take its place.

Dominican Republic: God, Family, Corruption.

 

[slas7713]

I agree with much of Suarezns' post. The problem is that it seems mostly a cultural thing and not just a government thing. It seems when you live in the DR you'll see this type of activity (corrupt), and mentality, in many areas and many forms. Like Suarezn says, if some tigre tries to rip you off or "pull one over on you" and you catch them and confront them, many time they'll just smile and call you a tigre, since you were smarter and caught them at their little game. Then they just act like, no harm no foul, and life goes one. Of course I, and many other, get sick of having to deal with these feeble attempts regularly. Sometimes you can't escape it, my last issue was with corrupt lawyers. Took three to finally get a simple divorce done.

As a gringo we often think it's directed at us but unfortunately all Dominicans suffer from this corrupt attitude and behavior from the top down. The only difference from a poor Dominican trying to rip you, or another Domincan, off for few pesos, and the top government official doing it is that the government official generally has more means and better opportunity, but the poor one will do the same if given the chance. Cultural mentality.

 

[johnny]

Not to go off topic but there is a lot corruption in the US. Hell, the corruption here makes the corruption in the DR look amateurish.

Exactly what I thought. corruption in USA is 3 times bigger than here. The only difference is that here you can steal openly, and there is more democracy. you can call to El gobierno de la Manana and llamar LADRON to any funcionario (including the President). something that you cant do in US.

 

[Givadogahome]

I believe that Dominicans are just lazy and really do not care at all bout what is going on in the country. They are comfortable with getting things easily and not working hard for whats necessary. I also believe that since many Dominicans receive money from their relatives abroad they could careless as they have just enough to survive and this contributes to their laziness. It could also be that they are scared because as you know in the DR you mess with the wrong people you just might end up missing. I always say that they are under a Brugal induced coma, one which I don't see them getting out of anytime soon.

Incredible observations, I wonder which Republic you are referring to as laziness is not something that I would use to describe this nation. Lack of option, yes. People who have work are up and about at the crack of dawn, eager to earn a decent days crust. This is not a cotton wool society where people who don't want to work can claim a social to survive if they can't be bothered, so I disagree with your strange observations. People have families abroad to send them money? Again, what Republic are you referring to as you are talking about a tiny percentage of people in the country who have this silver spoon. I suggest you move out of the neighbourhood you are living in as it is not leading to accurate opinion of the country and its people.
Why no rebellion? why no change? why no effort? I can only read the thoughts and opinions of the people around me, family mainly. My father in law for example, accepts he is a cab driver, he never eyeballs anyone, he never even looks at people of authority, he avoids the police, he does everything he can to live under the radar, he is of an older generation where being seen and known and speaking out only can ever bring bad news. People who stand up for what is right get nowhere. He knows it is his bag, he has brought his kids up to understand you have to work for what you want, and even then you don't expect to get what you deserve, don't fight it, take the hit and move on. Fight the hits and it draws attention, and any attention is negative attention. So, be tough, do your best, life will change when others in control dictate such, for better or worse, just follow the grain, never run against the grain. I suppose it could be seen as a pathetic stance in life to some. But being brought up in his world in his generation I can tell you it is and he is a strong minded person, to live and accept such crap all your life and still raise a smile after the police have just taxed you is not a sign of weakness, it is a sign of strength.
These people are great, intelligent, they know they can not change anything, the bar is out of reach for them.

 

[PICHARDO]

The corruption is blatant and rife, thrown in their faces everyday.
They show emotion, but that's it, nothing more!

When and what will turn the apathy it action?

===========

Note: This is the debate forum, so be warned, personal attacks, ridiculous posts and thread hijacking will get a you a 1 week ban. So I suggest some of you engage brain before posting

I think it has all to do with how we're "inducted" into political lines within the homes. "Our party is the good one" thinking is the acceptable way of thinking it can't do wrong at all.

Political corruption is inbred in our culture to the point of asphyxiation for lack of a better word.

It's hard to understand for people that come from developed nations and less in-your-face corruption. For example when we drive with beers open all over the vehicle, but expect to pay a "toll" of good will to the cops. The cops themselves see this as part of their income resources.

Everything has been ingrained to be acceptable to a point or event.

We don't frown upon seeing older men trying to date younger girls, even at their own family's home.

Tax evasion is an art that's been passed down for generations, the wealthier the family the more expertise the art in evading the payment and reports.

There's a historic reason for this in our country: Trujillo... He used the state as a personal account to enrich his coffers. Corruption IS legislated in the DR in the open. You have LAWS in the books to identify corruption but no means to penalize it, seriously.

Can you believe that it was only last year when the needed penal code was updated to detail what was the way to prosecute theft of services, in a country with a major problem with this?

We all want to see less corruption but fewer want to be put in jail, for having been stopped with an opened beer in the car, yes?

Action? I'll say that we owe to many expats here that a lot has changed (even when it looks little to you now) in the DR.

Environmental issues have been taken to the streets and won by the population... Health, crime, education...

By exposing the ingrained corruption in the open, by mere opinions in forums like DR1, many expats have and are helping the DR change. As slow as it may be, change is real.

 

[belgiank]

Dominican Republic: God, FAMILY, Country.

USA: God, COUNTRY, Family.

When country is not right behind God corruption is allowed to take its place.

You honestly believe there is no corruption in the US government, or the European ones, or the Middle East ones, or the Asian ones???

Come on...

The US government is leading its citizens like sheep and frauding them big scale... so are the European governments. The only difference is that they are a bit better at hiding it, than the frauds in the DR. But the end-result is the same.

Remember all the uprisings in the Middle East only a number of months ago? Big surprise to a lot of people, but the new governments who they fought for, are just as fraudulent as the ones they evicted.

So, maybe the DR citizens are not too stupid?