- Thread starter Robert
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Why Are Dominicans So Apathetic?
Actually I think you are right on topic.
Downplaying corruption there because its certainly much worse in the US or somewhere else is a recurring answer here. Whether the US or Europe or anywhere else has 1,2, or 3 times more corruption is irrelevant, but it is an easy way to deflect the criticism that the OP has pointed out.
As to corruption in the US, it certainly exists and probably exists on a larger scale by virtue of the fact that it is much larger and has more citizens than the DR. The difference is, we have a system of laws and of justice that for the most part works.
The DR news is full of hundreds of DNCD officers caught redhanded who are either transferred to new posts, fired, or if you are high enough in rank...retired. Very very few go to jail, and if they are, the judges are bought and paid for with such regularity it is the exception, not the rule, when someone actually receives jail time. The figures that I once heard were that only 5% of those charged are actually convicted. That speaks volumes about an abysmal and corrupt judiciary....and perhaps speaks to the apathy of the citizenry the OP refers to.
As to the US, our jails are not only full of the lowliest drug sellling gang members, but they contain corporate icons, politicians and wealthy people. Are we perfect....heck no. Is there corruption...absolutely. But the difference is, we will not stand for crime nor corruption when it is brought to our attention, and again the justice system for the most part, works.
Respectfully,
Playacaribe2
Nowhere near close to The DR...Did you know that when a new party takes control the custom is that every public employee (down to people doing such menial jobs as school custodians) gets fired and replaced with someone from the new party. Whether the new person has any prior experience or the knowledge to do this job is irrelevant...what matters is that you belong to the party currently in control.
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The apathy here used to drive me crazy. I would tell Dominican friends and acquaintances that we would never tolerate some of what goes on here in the US, naming specifics.
But then I got to thinking, would I really want to live in a country where the people were in turmoil, huelgas much more frequent than now, demonstrations like we have seen recently in the middle east. etc
Realizing that no, I would not particularly like that, I decided to leave political organizing to others.
But then I got to thinking, would I really want to live in a country where the people were in turmoil, huelgas much more frequent than now, demonstrations like we have seen recently in the middle east. etc
Realizing that no, I would not particularly like that, I decided to leave political organizing to others.
Corruption, influence, denies of justice... are worldwide. They just take various modalities. They are current in Europe or USA. Reports are permanents on TV and press. Do poeple do much about them. I'm not so sure...
Here in the Dominican Republic it's not as hidden as it is in Canada and the States. The Dominicans are no more apathetic than we are. You have no control over the corruption there than here so why worry about something you have "NO" control over. It's like the weather you get what is given to you each day, can you control it "NO" so just live with what ever comes up.
I'm happy to be 70 years old and not having to worry about what is going to happen over the next 20 years. I'm sorry for my kids and my grandchildren but I have no influence over their future.
The difference is in the controls put in place by governments to limit coruption. I work in contracts work for the Canadian military and we have numerous controls in place to limit or stop coruption. There still is coruption but the transparency and accountability act eliminates most of it.
viva el 4%
Exactly. And while the Dominicans certainly didn't take their pro-education protest like the Chileans did, the 4% campaign is the only glimmer of hope I have been given about people uniting across all types of lines to manifest indignity against corruption and injustice for the common good. Well, that and the cement plant in Los Haitises, another major win for the pueblo. These types of things gradually build confidence in widespread mobilizing as a means of enacting change (I hope :ermm.
Social media did play a big role in both of those movements. Education and technology: dangerous things to those in power interested in continuing to fleece the ignorant masses. Don't expect a DR-style 'Arab Spring' though...the climate is nice and hot but peoples' brains have been frozen for so long on funditas and frosty white "botellas" that it's going to be a long thaw...
Exactly. And while the Dominicans certainly didn't take their pro-education protest like the Chileans did, the 4% campaign is the only glimmer of hope I have been given about people uniting across all types of lines to manifest indignity against corruption and injustice for the common good. Well, that and the cement plant in Los Haitises, another major win for the pueblo. These types of things gradually build confidence in widespread mobilizing as a means of enacting change (I hope :ermm
.Social media did play a big role in both of those movements. Education and technology: dangerous things to those in power interested in continuing to fleece the ignorant masses. Don't expect a DR-style 'Arab Spring' though...the climate is nice and hot but peoples' brains have been frozen for so long on funditas and frosty white "botellas" that it's going to be a long thaw...
What did the Arab Spring bring forward? New governments doing exactly the same thing as the previous ones did. The uprisings there are already starting once again.
Belgium did not have a government for nearly 2 years. After that period you see a government with the same idiots which were fired 2 years before... admitted, they did change places, like in musical chairs...
The US, exactly the same.
Let us be honest and realistic, guys... 90% of people in politics and government have no clue whatsoever about what normal everyday people experience. Sure, they can announce a rise in taxes on fuel, or whatever... because they will not feel it, where the everyday family will feel it. They are there, because they had connections, and money... and they are in office to get more money and more connections. Brains and ability do not come into the equation. Unfortunately enough.
As far as the DR goes.. talk to the campesinos... talk to the regular people here... Honestly, they do not give a ****, because they know that whoever will be the next president, he will screw them as well. My opinion is they kind of hope it is "Papa", but do they really care? NO!!!
And this is also the reason that whoever is elected, education will not be one of the primary objectives. Once again, unfortunately.
Belgium did not have a government for nearly 2 years. After that period you see a government with the same idiots which were fired 2 years before... admitted, they did change places, like in musical chairs...
The US, exactly the same.
Let us be honest and realistic, guys... 90% of people in politics and government have no clue whatsoever about what normal everyday people experience. Sure, they can announce a rise in taxes on fuel, or whatever... because they will not feel it, where the everyday family will feel it. They are there, because they had connections, and money... and they are in office to get more money and more connections. Brains and ability do not come into the equation. Unfortunately enough.
As far as the DR goes.. talk to the campesinos... talk to the regular people here... Honestly, they do not give a ****, because they know that whoever will be the next president, he will screw them as well. My opinion is they kind of hope it is "Papa", but do they really care? NO!!!
And this is also the reason that whoever is elected, education will not be one of the primary objectives. Once again, unfortunately.
A father says to his son: what kind of job do you want to do? The son says he doesnt know. Then the father asks his son what are his abilities and competences. The son says he doesnt have any. Then the father says its no problem: go for politics... This joke tells a lot about different kinds of corruption...
As long as people feel disconnected from the concept of effective citizenship, they will remain in the indifference state of mind, or worse the submission mode.
The whole tiguere and pendejo/pariguayo attitudes have to go if Dominicans expect one day to have good leaders.
Surely the geography has something to do with it... If you're hungry, just grab a mango.
I can't understand why my Dominican neighbours just live for the day and don't do any 'future planning', both financially and in terms of family planning!
Where did I say the USA has no corruption. Why do so many of you read a post and then draw your own conclusion. If I thought the USA has no corruption I would have STATED IT, but I know better.
Rod Blagojevich thought because he held the higest office in the state of Illinios he was untouchable, give him a call and ask him where he will be spending the next several years.
Dominicans put their friends and family ahead of their country that was my point, and nobody can dispute this Dominicans will tell you this. Example years back a friend of mine wanted to visit the DR with me, so one day my friend and I was hanging out with my wifes family, after eating a bag of chips he put the empty bag in his pocket because no trash cans were around. This is something I will never forget my wife's sister took the bag out his pocket and guess where she threw it?
No matter what the topic is many of you will spin it to make the DR better then what it is. Have any of you heard the saying "POWER TO THE PEOPLE" the people of the DR will never have this state of mind NEVER.
Ask a Dominican," what is change to you? I bet 70% will say having a passport that does not say Dominican Republic on the cover.
BTW The US Attorney Office, SEC, IRS are people you never want to deal with EVER. Does the DR have anything similar do these part of their government, or do they even have the same POWER. Also why is Japan helping the DR with its trash collection system?
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Hard to do financial planning when you live on RD$5000 a month, and when you retire in a country with no state pensions you need the children to pay for you and look after you.
Kimbjorkland writes: Surely the geography has something to do with it... If you're hungry, just grab a mango.
I can't understand why my Dominican neighbours just live for the day and don't do any 'future planning', both financially and in terms of family planning! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm sure the tropical weather is a factor, but surely you know some fellow Americans that live for day, spend all their money and then some, and have absolutely no budgeting skills. I know many people that fir in to that category, including some family members.
Some of my Dominican Inlaws hold down two full time jobs and manage to send money back to support their daughters at University, save enough to buy property in the DR, and pay for flights back and forth. That requires both budgeting skills and forthought to the future. My spouse can sweeze two dimes out of a nickel, or as her friends say" she knows how to grow money" Many Dominicans have this trait.
I can't understand why my Dominican neighbours just live for the day and don't do any 'future planning', both financially and in terms of family planning! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm sure the tropical weather is a factor, but surely you know some fellow Americans that live for day, spend all their money and then some, and have absolutely no budgeting skills. I know many people that fir in to that category, including some family members.
Some of my Dominican Inlaws hold down two full time jobs and manage to send money back to support their daughters at University, save enough to buy property in the DR, and pay for flights back and forth. That requires both budgeting skills and forthought to the future. My spouse can sweeze two dimes out of a nickel, or as her friends say" she knows how to grow money" Many Dominicans have this trait.
Jees, it is normal for a young family with kids to live month to month with no saving, not because of lack of budgeting skills or anything other than even with a regular wage it is not easy to save money. Where the idea that everyone in Europe or the states puts money aside for the future comes from I dunno. I know more that budget till pay day and can only go do the shopping on that glorious day. Saving money isn't easy anywhere, regular people with regular income don't have that luxury.
THIS MY POINT!!! no matter what the topic is. Let me go off topic just to prove a point about the DR and how they think.
Look at the baseball players that are Dominicans most not all are HR hitters HR or nothing.
Now Look at Japans players contact hitters, moving the runner base to base.
This is why at a young age Japan players are always in the World Series.
firstly, suarezn's post is so insightful, there is nothing that i can think of to add to it. as for corruption in the USA. sure, it exists. but only at the highest levels. if you do not believe me, next time a cop pulls you over, offer him 50 dollars to forget the whole thing. i can't promise to send you money to get your supplies from the commissary.
that is exactly when you NEED financial planning. spending 10,000 pesos on a hot blackberry, when you are pulling down 2500 pesos per week, will not work.