Why do you live here and why do you stay living in the dr.

[Givadogahome]

Yes, I understand all that. But let's not oversimplify things. There are many dominicans who having had the same share of opportunities are doing very well. It is also true that most of those who leave are very aware of what the real opportunities for them abroad are, let's face it. It is not less true that "the government" is not run by martians, but for dominicans produced by the same society. And yes, the government does not do enough for the people, but we have to agree that many people don't do much for themselves, let alone for others.

I agree, but let's not over generalise here. Those who are willing to do something for themselves deserve opportunity. No one deserves anything for free, but to study, work hard and then have nothing to show for after it must be soul destroying, and I for one sympathise greatly with that.
When I consider my daughter not having the options she has it upsets me, as I know no matter how hard she tried, how intelligent she is, how great she is at her job and how loyal she can be to her country, her opportunity is a lottery.

 

[yapask1]

Great, but I have to warn you, I once wind surfed before, I couldn't turn it around and almost ended up in Africa, seriously:cross-eye

If you end up in Africa I am sure I could get more in publicity fees than the $250 the windsurf cost me.

Take me on!

yapask1

 

[Castle]

I agree, but let's not over generalise here. Those who are willing to do something for themselves deserve opportunity. No one deserves anything for free, but to study, work hard and then have nothing to show for after it must be soul destroying, and I for one sympathise greatly with that.
When I consider my daughter not having the options she has it upsets me, as I know no matter how hard she tried, how intelligent she is, how great she is at her job and how loyal she can be to her country, her opportunity is a lottery.

I agree with you. The way I see it, some people don't try hard enough, because there is always an easier way out (or so they think). in my offiice we have been forced several times to bring over people from other countries to work. And yes, we ran adds on papers, hired head hunters, etc. So, in our particular case, we have given the opportunities, but we haven't been able to find qualified applicants willing to work on entry level jobs. I agree that's not always the case, but it says a lot to me. It tells me that opportunities don't fall from the skies, you have to prepare yourself and, above all things, be patient.

 

[Givadogahome]

We go out to eat 4-5 times a week with friends, all Dominican. My wife and I go dancing in Santiago once a week at live music venues in the city. We go to beaches on the North coast twice a week. We travel to Punta Cana once every few months for a few days. I go to Jarabacoa twice a month to check on my Mom who lives in the mountains there. I will admit I don't go to the capital much but I honestly have never liked big cities much. I have over 30 contacts on my phone that we regularly go out to dinner with in Santiago and La Vega. My aunt is the president of her community association in La Vega (Residencial Gamundi) and her name is Esperanza Castillo de Nunez. I'm not sure what else we could do to socialize more but I'm definitely not going to sit at colmados and listen to drug addicts and alcoholics talk about how the streets in the US/EU are paved in gold. You might be able to pass your BS over to newbies here, but I'm not hearing it.

Oh well if you know Jarabacoa well you will know that the majority of wealth up there? Everyone who lives up there has family dotted around the USA, they come back to the hills once in a while to chill out and then back to the US or work down the city, but most have family in the US, you must know that if you know it so well?
Now I don't want to go mental here but I will hang out a wild presumption that there are a few more people around the country than your 30 contacts on your cell phone and your aunts who holds a coffee morning once in a while (why do I get the impression you are an over spunky spotty 21 year old?)
There is a lot of money around the country, Dominicans with money and I have to say that many of them (I wont hang out a significant claim like some) who can, do travel to the states, own property or just visit the children they have studying there, or are infact studying themselves. Infact I can say that the majority of wealthy people I have met over the years are linked full time, part time, study or work to some extent abroad. Many many wealthy families have links to the US and spend time there to some extent.
Now I am pleased you have an active social life, really I am, it sounds wonderful. And your Aunt is the figurehead of the community, truly wonderful, an envious position to be in. But tame the BS with this idea that only the poorer people of the country don't want to live there, people with cash come and go. People without, go and come back occasionally.
I dunno what drug addicts and alcoholics down the colmados talk about, but you obviously do as you have just clarified this for us. So when you are talking about people hanging around with better to do people, try to be more intelligent in what you write.
I would also not know about the streets of the US or EU being paved with gold, I have lived in neither for over 20 years up until very recently. And from what I have gathered up until now it is not the best place to earn a buck, but I'm still not sure what you mean, you seem more intent on making a point than making a factual point, but so be it, carry on enjoy yourself. I don't have much issue with Mosquitos where I am, but................

 

[Givadogahome]

I agree with you. The way I see it, some people don't try hard enough, because there is always an easier way out (or so they think). in my offiice we have been forced several times to bring over people from other countries to work. And yes, we ran adds on papers, hired head hunters, etc. So, in our particular case, we have given the opportunities, but we haven't been able to find qualified applicants willing to work on entry level jobs. I agree that's not always the case, but it says a lot to me. It tells me that opportunities don't fall from the skies, you have to prepare yourself and, above all things, be patient.

That is frustrating on your part I see. A country full of people looking for opportunity and no one willing to take it when it comes along. I think all these experiences build up our own picture of how it is, we all know different sides to the country and no one knows it all. I do find having to look abroad for staff very saddening indeed. Like I said, it is a lottery obsessed country, maybe because many live their lives that way. I dunno. I never thought I'd hear of people sending abroad for entry level employees the sad reality maybe.

 

[AlterEgo]

Here is something to note, most Dominicans that move abroad are from the bottom 1/3rd of the socioeconomic class of Dominicans. Obviously if the only people you know are people from this class, most would die to leave the DR and go anywhere else to try something different. Very few people in my family and NONE of my friends would even think of living in the US or EU.. Meet some higher quality people here and maybe you'll change your mind... or keep sipping that Bohemia at the colmado and living in ignorance.

What percentage is "most"??

In your mind only sankies and sankettes leave the DR?

I don't know how old you are, but I'm guessing you're young enough to 'know it all'.

 

[Contango]

I just wanted to say that I always read post that contain no more than two paragraphs, anything longer then that I just skip right over.. Try not to write a novel page its annoying.. no offence to long timers..

 

[belgiank]

Even the poorest Domican has a food social program and a very simple structure is sufficient protection from the elements in much of the country. Basic health services are free, and although of not high quality, cure many ailments.

yapask1

You should get a bit better informed. Basic health services are free indeed, but not the medication or whatever is needed for an operation. So, in reality, the doctor and nurses provide a free service, but the people have to pay for everything else, including a family member accompanying them to the hospital to make sure the sick family member gets food.

2 examples I know of...
- son has moto accident and has a complicated fracture of the arm... Operation was for free, splint (titanium) costed the family 8,000 rds. Plus several trips from Sabaneta to POP, the mother having to stay there for 4 days (loss of income for her), and the fact that the son stayed for 3 weeks at her house afterwards, and being unable to work for 6 months. For a family with a monthly income of 13,000 rds, a though job to say the least.
- same family. Her father is diagnosed with prostate cancer. Consultation was free, but he is too old for an operation, and the cancer is too advanced. Medication is 97 rds per tablet 2 per day. So around 6,000 rds per month. Can you spend 50% of your income on medication?

BelgianK

 

[Castle]

That is frustrating on your part I see. A country full of people looking for opportunity and no one willing to take it when it comes along. I think all these experiences build up our own picture of how it is, we all know different sides to the country and no one knows it all. I do find having to look abroad for staff very saddening indeed. Like I said, it is a lottery obsessed country, maybe because many live their lives that way. I dunno. I never thought I'd hear of people sending abroad for entry level employees the sad reality maybe.

Indeed. Many people on some other latin americans countries riddled with crime and violence, find dr to be the land of opportunities. At work we have the advantage of having offices isnsome of those countries and when we post an offer to come here, many jump at the opportunity. And after a few years they are able to live good lives.
But you are right too, and it's my pleasure to discuss with someone like you who is not taking a stand or picking sides, but willing to see all the anlges. I can't emphasize enough how much I love this country and how much I owe to the DR. But I still feel it's my duty to dtry to debunk a few myths when I can, and as you well put it, it's frustrating at times.

 

[Givadogahome]

You should get a bit better informed. Basic health services are free indeed, but not the medication or whatever is needed for an operation.

I was amazed when my father in law had a heart bypass for RD6000. And his meds after we not a lot.

 

[yapask1]

I agree with you. The way I see it, some people don't try hard enough, because there is always an easier way out (or so they think). in my offiice we have been forced several times to bring over people from other countries to work. And yes, we ran adds on papers, hired head hunters, etc. So, in our particular case, we have given the opportunities, but we haven't been able to find qualified applicants willing to work on entry level jobs. I agree that's not always the case, but it says a lot to me. It tells me that opportunities don't fall from the skies, you have to prepare yourself and, above all things, be patient.

I have often time refused a job or contract because it is not in line with my expectations...... e.g.

Was it directed at a sustainable national economy or some other contribution for society?

Were the directors of the company responsible or just out to defraud people?

Did it genuinely advance people in society?

It is stupid to waste your energies working for idiots - resign!

Yes, there is always some naive person from India or from elsewhere who will jump though hoops but when they look back at their career working for con-artists, corrupt organisations etc. will they feel proud?

“The most worth-while thing is to try to put happiness into the lives of others.”

Robert Baden-Powell quote

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I have never had to be patient - stupid advice - go get it!

Yes, opportunities fall from skies. When I was a kid I used to breed white rats for universities for discection , run a market garden, both fell from a random conversation and I was not prepared. But I was willing to take on the challenge and ask for help when needed.

Sometime I used to run betting tips athough knowing nothing about horses. Basically it is the guy who is prepared to hike into the mountains not knowing what he will encounter but emerge a surviver, learning and adapting fast, who succeeds outside the key professions - medicine etc.



And most of all he or she has and deserves the recognition of his fellow human beings.


yapask1

 

[Givadogahome]

Hahaha, I knew the real you had to come back soon, lol. More bonkers than De Wallen at Christmas

 

[Castle]

I have never had to be patient - stupid advice - go get it!

Yes, opportunities fall from skies. When I was a kid I used to breed white rats for universities for discection , run a market garden, both fell from a random conversation and I was not prepared. But I was willing to take on the challenge and ask for help when neede

I don't know how being patient means not jumping at an opportunity. I don't see why the advice is stupid. Being patient does not mean sitting at home, it means not jumping on a fragile boat to get to PR when you have a degree. It means not marrying someome to get a residency card (yes, middle class, educated people do it too).
I see your point is pretty much the same as mine. But I wonder how someone who wouldn't work for con artists or something not meant to help society, used to work running horse bets. But I'm not here to argue with anyone, and I prefer to respect other people's opinion, as we all come from different background and life experiences that we should share for the benefit of all

 

[yapask1]

There was no inaccuracy in my post. It was not ill-informed. Yes, when I go into country areas I am stopped by a barrier on the road where they are collecting for additional fees for patients. It could be better - but the government elected by the people has chosen to build tunnels to and car parks for the university in SD with money that could have been spent on the health service.

And of course the government has built race track roads to the deserted malls in Santo Domingo.

Some Dominicans such as P have an attitude problem that is hard for the outsider to understand ; considering the Christian tradition.

This post will be deleted because of the religious reference.....

Luke 10.30.

And Jesus answering said, A certain man went down from Jerusalem to
Jericho, and fell among thieves, which stripped him of his raiment, and wounded
him, and departed, leaving him half dead. 31And by chance there came down a certain priest that way: and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side. 32And likewise a Levite,
when he was at the place, came and looked on him, and passed by on the
other side. 33But a certain
Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had
compassion on him, 34And went to
him, and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his
own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him. 35And
on the morrow when he departed, he took out two pence, and gave them to
the host, and said unto him, Take care of him; and whatsoever thou spendest
more, when I come again, I will repay thee. 36Which now of these
three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves? 37And
he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou
likewise.

You should get a bit better informed. Basic health services are free indeed, but not the medication or whatever is needed for an operation. So, in reality, the doctor and nurses provide a free service, but the people have to pay for everything else, including a family member accompanying them to the hospital to make sure the sick family member gets food.

2 examples I know of...
- son has moto accident and has a complicated fracture of the arm... Operation was for free, splint (titanium) costed the family 8,000 rds. Plus several trips from Sabaneta to POP, the mother having to stay there for 4 days (loss of income for her), and the fact that the son stayed for 3 weeks at her house afterwards, and being unable to work for 6 months. For a family with a monthly income of 13,000 rds, a though job to say the least.
- same family. Her father is diagnosed with prostate cancer. Consultation was free, but he is too old for an operation, and the cancer is too advanced. Medication is 97 rds per tablet 2 per day. So around 6,000 rds per month. Can you spend 50% of your income on medication?

The people who contribute at the barrier are following the Christian tradition.

We have to ask about the government officers that deny essential medicines ; although I appreciate much progress has been made over during the last PLD government.

yapask1

BelgianK

 

[JohnnyBoy]

Castle what kind of business are you in that you have to bring in entry level people from abroad? Im not doubtin you I just find that hard to believe. Dont you post job openings with universities to get the new grads to apply?
Funny when I graduated U I had a job lined up the next week. Now you see middle aged men and women applying for junk jobs with young kids. Sad state of affairs.

 

[Castle]

Castle what kind of business are you in that you have to bring in entry level people from abroad? Im not doubtin you I just find that hard to believe. Dont you post job openings with universities to get the new grads to apply?
Funny when I graduated U I had a job lined up the next week. Now you see middle aged men and women applying for junk jobs with young kids. Sad state of affairs.

Telecommunications. When there's an openning it usually requieres applicants to be graduates of system engineeing or computer sciene. They must be able to read and write basic english, and they must be able to write in spanish without errors. The few that meet all this requirements, don't want to work for 30k RD$, even if they have not experience. Some of the staff we have brought from south and central America seemed quite happy to work for those US$ 800 as starting salary, with the benfit of livng in a much less violent country. On the other hand, some of the most experienced engimeers making over US$ 2k have quit their jobs to move to the US and Canada.

 

[yapask1]

Telecommunications. When there's an openning it usually requieres applicants to be graduates of system engineeing or computer sciene. They must be able to read and write basic english, and they must be able to write in spanish without errors. The few that meet all this requirements, don't want to work for 30k RD$, even if they have not experience. Some of the staff we have brought from south and central America seemed quite happy to work for those US$ 800 as starting salary, with the benfit of livng in a much less violent country. On the other hand, some of the most experienced engimeers making over US$ 2k have quit their jobs to move to the US and Canada.

A suggestion : when I was working as a computer consultant at up to $`100 an hour it was often with mean companies that paid bum on seat rates and failed over years to get even basic jobs done. Yes, reading English OK but a translation package plus a multi-lingual secretary can deliver to many customers in several languages with polished consistent prose. Do you have computer or other aptitude tests in your recruitment process? Many companies I knew had their most talented workers in the engineering or computer field working with only a school leaving certificate - this includes Universities.

In the UK some of the engineers I supervised had great difficulty writing English with a vocab of over 500 words but delivered great results to customers in the UK after their replies in Mandarin or whatever had been polished after machine translation.

In real life a mean under-paying company looses talented people doesn't get results and if this is the nature of their business looses contracts.

Even in China and Thailand starting salaries are $15,000 for good engineers, computing specialists.

yapask1

 

[JohnnyBoy]

Telecommunications. When there's an openning it usually requieres applicants to be graduates of system engineeing or computer sciene. They must be able to read and write basic english, and they must be able to write in spanish without errors. The few that meet all this requirements, don't want to work for 30k RD$, even if they have not experience. Some of the staff we have brought from south and central America seemed quite happy to work for those US$ 800 as starting salary, with the benfit of livng in a much less violent country. On the other hand, some of the most experienced engimeers making over US$ 2k have quit their jobs to move to the US and Canada.

perfectly clear to me now thanks.....