Carajo cuando la gente no sabe en que botai' lo cuarrrrto. Dime tu, un pais donde no hay jeringuilla' pa' lo' hopitale', ni butaca pa'h lo'h etudiante....no joda conho, este pais va al mismo rumbo de Haiti.
- Thread starter Chirimoya
- Start date
Metro defenders - answer these questions please
M
misterchicago40
Guest
If, in fact, the Metro were extended from Santo Domingo to Santiago (and byyond, in a few years), that would facillitate considerable ridership between the two cities. It would also reduce the time to travel considerably, opening the door for even more expansion. I would forsee amuch higher tarrif than the current busses charge, however since the time reduction and convenience of being discharged near the center of business and government activity would further enhance the ridership.
By the time such service would become available , the Government will have solved the current mediocre electrical service which will be at the heart of such a system. I do forsee an expansion of a railway system into the hinterland which would serve the Central Cibao and the major markets of Santiago, Santo Domingo, Puerto Plata, Monticristi and Dajabon.
This country has yet to tap it's agricultural potential and an efficiently run rail system would go a long ways towwrd facillitating that.
From what I see, looking at a map of the Dominican Republic, the nucleus of such a system is already in place just waiting to be upgraded to a modern system.
Now that I've said all that, I question if the DR has the indegenous expertise to plan and carry out such an ambitious project. But, then I thought that about theMetro, also and look at the egg on my face.
Texas Bill
By the time such service would become available , the Government will have solved the current mediocre electrical service which will be at the heart of such a system. I do forsee an expansion of a railway system into the hinterland which would serve the Central Cibao and the major markets of Santiago, Santo Domingo, Puerto Plata, Monticristi and Dajabon.
This country has yet to tap it's agricultural potential and an efficiently run rail system would go a long ways towwrd facillitating that.
From what I see, looking at a map of the Dominican Republic, the nucleus of such a system is already in place just waiting to be upgraded to a modern system.
Now that I've said all that, I question if the DR has the indegenous expertise to plan and carry out such an ambitious project. But, then I thought that about theMetro, also and look at the egg on my face.
Texas Bill
Dominican President announces investments of 3.7B euros in tourism, train.
BARCELONA.- President Leonel Fernandez yesterday said a group of businesspersons from the Balearic Islands -who already have tourism complexes in Dominican Republic- want to invest 3,750 million euros in the industry in the next four years.
The chief executive, in a meeting with members of the Dominican community in Catalonia, also said he aims to build a high speed train similar to the one in Spain, to link Santo Domingo and Santiago, the Caribbean nation’s two largest cities.
"We are going to make a very small HVT from Santiago to Santo Domingo, "Fernandez said according to the agency EFE. He also spoke of a second subway line Santo Domingo.
The Head of State is expected to return 4 P.M. Monday on an Iberia flight in the Las Americas International Airport, after spending more than one week in Europe.
http://www2.dominicantoday.com/dr/e...ces-investments-of-37B-euros-in-tourism-train
BARCELONA.- President Leonel Fernandez yesterday said a group of businesspersons from the Balearic Islands -who already have tourism complexes in Dominican Republic- want to invest 3,750 million euros in the industry in the next four years.
The chief executive, in a meeting with members of the Dominican community in Catalonia, also said he aims to build a high speed train similar to the one in Spain, to link Santo Domingo and Santiago, the Caribbean nation’s two largest cities.
"We are going to make a very small HVT from Santiago to Santo Domingo, "Fernandez said according to the agency EFE. He also spoke of a second subway line Santo Domingo.
The Head of State is expected to return 4 P.M. Monday on an Iberia flight in the Las Americas International Airport, after spending more than one week in Europe.
http://www2.dominicantoday.com/dr/e...ces-investments-of-37B-euros-in-tourism-train
If only I could post some of the stuff I know in the initial stages for the DR, I know I would get a lot of feedbacks from many people here posting... LOL!!!!
The stuff you can know about:
The DR will be linked with International Airports in each province, with air taxi (private/public service).
5 New HDTV/Cable/Internet/Phone service providers within the next three years (two already in service and one to be on by the end of this year).
27 Major toll roads (3 already underway) to link the national road system with cuts of travel time of many hours to the current needed.
The morphing of the Education system to a nation wide wireless WAN. Students will go on line into virtual classrooms. With the integration of a national electronic library for students only. (Underway)...
Get ready for Natural Gas nationwide...
The introduction of a Flex fuel vehicles only import bill once Ethanol is produce to satisfy local demand with the integration of Refidomsa is completed and upgraded to mix the fuels as needed.
The purchase of the power generators back from foreign hands and the upgrading to Ethanol as well...
A new agency to handle the integration of the armed forces and police into a single national defense body with civilian links to the emergency bodies.
And many others...
Just don't be surprised when they get posted in the news... LOL!!!
The stuff you can know about:
The DR will be linked with International Airports in each province, with air taxi (private/public service).
5 New HDTV/Cable/Internet/Phone service providers within the next three years (two already in service and one to be on by the end of this year).
27 Major toll roads (3 already underway) to link the national road system with cuts of travel time of many hours to the current needed.
The morphing of the Education system to a nation wide wireless WAN. Students will go on line into virtual classrooms. With the integration of a national electronic library for students only. (Underway)...
Get ready for Natural Gas nationwide...
The introduction of a Flex fuel vehicles only import bill once Ethanol is produce to satisfy local demand with the integration of Refidomsa is completed and upgraded to mix the fuels as needed.
The purchase of the power generators back from foreign hands and the upgrading to Ethanol as well...
A new agency to handle the integration of the armed forces and police into a single national defense body with civilian links to the emergency bodies.
And many others...
Just don't be surprised when they get posted in the news... LOL!!!
Just my two cents...
I live in SD 6 months a year. I was blown away when I heard about the plans for the Metro and the millions they will spend to build it. Hmm im not a civic planner but a Metro when i cant even drink water from my tap in my apartment?
insane
just a thought
fm
I live in SD 6 months a year. I was blown away when I heard about the plans for the Metro and the millions they will spend to build it. Hmm im not a civic planner but a Metro when i cant even drink water from my tap in my apartment?
insane
just a thought
fm
I must say that in my home I'd never run out of water or presented problems with the potability of it to drink...
I have a Cisterna, use a good filter and keep my inversor in top shape...
I was born in a country (DR) in which those kind of services were never offered 24 hour around the clock, I got programmed to it...
Water/electricity/gas has never been available most of the time to those who can't afford to pay for Cisternas, inversored/plantas and keeping 3 or 4/large holding gas tanks at home...
Water is not a given but a commodity that one must learn to employ and conserve accordingly...
The DR's gov could essentially shut down all basic services in the DR tomorrow and my home wouldn't feel a pinch about it... So too, wouldn't a whole lot of people...
During the early 1970's I can recall a time when the water was disrupted for a very long period and water tankers were the only thing that provided such precious liquid to all folks; the DR didn’t collapse like a house built with playing cards.
We Dominicans are like weeds... We're able to take all kinds of abuse and forge ahead, just don't take away the SUN... LOL!!
Good Morning Pichardo
i respect your views but I work with many poor children in villages in your country and to see the conditions that they have to live with is quite sad with no real vision for improvement. I am not sure how many people have a cistern there but I am sure its a small percentage.
Metro is great for 1st world country but as long as the basics are provided for its people beforehand...ie shelter, food, education..
have a nice day
fm
i respect your views but I work with many poor children in villages in your country and to see the conditions that they have to live with is quite sad with no real vision for improvement. I am not sure how many people have a cistern there but I am sure its a small percentage.
Metro is great for 1st world country but as long as the basics are provided for its people beforehand...ie shelter, food, education..
have a nice day
fm
Let me be blunt on this:
The "villages" and "poor" that you encounter today in the DR in some 80% of the time are the direct result of open borders for cheap labor...
The "Campesino" was never poor or destitute, that was the "poor" the foreigners saw when they came to the DR back in the days...
As a matter of fact it was these campesinos the only ones that, unlike the middle class and city dwellers, took opportunity of the Visas and offers to get green cards by the two US consulates in the country...
Proof of their success in the US is relevant to the mass of biz owners from the Campos of the DR, who today make a good 90% of the corporate strata there...
Let me be clear on this:
The poor of the poor you see today in the DR are the direct result of the migration of the poorest of the poor from Haiti to the DR...
The racial composition of the Campos has been changed dramatically in the past 30 years!!!
Cities like Santiago, once the main point of migration of the campesinos to the city, is now looking more like SD than anything else, poverty to the max and all...
If you really want to help the poorest, take your bag and head to Haiti, the main source of destitution in the island...
A good 99% of the foreigners that today call the DR home can't possibly understand that! They were never here at the time this dramatic poverty started to creep over the DR...
If you want to know what being poor in the DR was at the time, just head to Pueblo Nuevo, Gurabo, Licey, Pekin, canabacoa, etc.. So that you can understand what level poverty was in the DR at that point in time.
Ever since the fall of Duvalier and all the restlessness in Haiti, at each turn of the gun fights, hordes of people just crossed the border to seek refuge in the DR. Those people never went back, why would they have done that?
Poor people were the ones living in Los Pepines, Baracoa, Valerio, etc...
The DR got the poorest of them all, and in spite of that, still forges forward unlike their country of origin.
A recent study conducted via the JCE rolls confirmed that over 75% of the people living in the campos in the west are of Haitian descent in the last 30 year span. That's less than two generations...
The poverty masses in our river banks and houses put together by anything they can nail to it, were found to be 60% of Haitian descent in a 40 year span... Less than 3 generations back...
This is not about color, race, nationality but a big problem called imported poverty!!!
Some people that come from the UK or US may not understand this but: Living in the campos in a dirt floored wooden home is not poor, is the culture of our country. Based on campesinos and the life style of the campos.
They are not hungry, missing underwear or clothes. They just don't live in the city and keep appliances like the city dwellers do...
That's not poverty, that's the culture of our campos...
Poverty is somebody without a roof over their head, roaming the garbage cans for food, roaming the streets for handouts...
That my friend is IMPORTED POVERTY...
Sorry Pichardo, but I don't agree with you at all.
I am Dominican, and I was born in 1981... so maybe I wasn't there in the 70's... but I went to school and I learned about our history.. Haiti and the Hatians have little to do with our poverty.
It is OUR fault.
> Who imported Hatians to work on the sugar cane fields?
> Who isn't providing adequate border patrolling and controls?
> Who allows the Hatians to come in here and work for construction companies? AND then when they are in here, they WON'T built temporary housing for the workers and their families (go to Juan Dolio and see)
> Who gives them Cedulas so Hatians can vote, effectively making them Dominican citizens?
> Who is it that doesn't enforce a decent minimum wage?
> Who doesn't control/manage the school systems, the overpriced private area or the understaffed public area?
> And above all, who mismanages all the great wealth that our country makes? Because we are a VERY resourceful country.
We make enough money on this Island to feed, clothe and build houses for everyone. Haiti is our NEIGHBOUR. And as such, we have the duty, if not the obligation, to help them. Instead, we use them like cattle. We bring them in when we need them, and then blame them for all our troubles and ship them out where they finish working.
The answer to all the questions above is DOMINICANS ARE AT FAULT. We make our country pool... from the mechanic who steals your new car parts to the politician who uses drug money to build apartments. From the Dominican man who hires prostitutes and has girlfriends to the woman who tolerates that.
Our society is at fault for our own poverty.
And you, my friend... are a smart person acting like an ignorant fool.
The campos are empty and full of Hatians because our country doesn't give a **** about making food. Why is a stupid person called a 'campesino'? We only care about having the best jeepeta or the fastest computer (to use as a paperweight, since most office ppl can't use them efficiently). Without investing in agriculture, without giving campesinos credit to take out loans, without help, they have no incentive to grow food. We are slowly starving because of this idiocy.
And, to keep my post to the thread topic.. the Metro, that HUGE fiasco which is nothing but a political campaign tool. A HUGE phallic symbol to boost our politicians ego and to impress our uneducated mass. What we needed to do was to FIX our current transport methods.. take away the transport unions, make efficient OMSA routes and maintenance.
This country is stupid. As soon as I get a degree, I will get out, I will work abroad and gather money, and I will come back when I can open my own business and actually change things when I have more power.
Can't do **** if I don't have a Porsche jeepeta. *insert sarcasm*
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I have ties older than you hanging in my closet...
This stupid country (as you called it) is also mine...
Read again and disseminate the sentences as provided or better yet, word by word; that way you could grasp what IMPORTED POVERTY means...
Who's a fault? Who cares at this point in time! The damage is done and done well...
I prefer to have the huge fiasco of the Metro falling to pieces a few years after it enters service, than having politicos spend the money in Jeepetas and faster computers.
If civilizations stuck to having to wait until all was perfect for the big projects to be built, maybe we would all be living like the people do in many parts of the world: Still in the Stone Age...
Education, water supply, electricity, gas, fuel, etc... It should never be left in the hands of governments to impart/provide to the people. It's via the private biz the way by which rapid development and advances in all areas have been achieved.
The DR owns enough private schools with developed world class education; the public system is not any better than any other country were the same holds true (including the old US of A and EU).
The mass migration of dirt poor people into the DR is the root of the severe poverty showing all around. Add the walloping increase of foreigners that retire to DR without the funds to cover more than the basic payments to live here.
One of the reasons the Gov has moved to require retirees to hold certain income levels before moving to the DR.
This is not about who's at fault, but what's happening and how it happened to those that don't know the roots of the cause...
Now I'll go and clean my closet of those old early 80's ties for good... Thanks for the reminder...
This stupid country (as you called it) is also mine...
Read again and disseminate the sentences as provided or better yet, word by word; that way you could grasp what IMPORTED POVERTY means...
Who's a fault? Who cares at this point in time! The damage is done and done well...
I prefer to have the huge fiasco of the Metro falling to pieces a few years after it enters service, than having politicos spend the money in Jeepetas and faster computers.
If civilizations stuck to having to wait until all was perfect for the big projects to be built, maybe we would all be living like the people do in many parts of the world: Still in the Stone Age...
Education, water supply, electricity, gas, fuel, etc... It should never be left in the hands of governments to impart/provide to the people. It's via the private biz the way by which rapid development and advances in all areas have been achieved.
The DR owns enough private schools with developed world class education; the public system is not any better than any other country were the same holds true (including the old US of A and EU).
The mass migration of dirt poor people into the DR is the root of the severe poverty showing all around. Add the walloping increase of foreigners that retire to DR without the funds to cover more than the basic payments to live here.
One of the reasons the Gov has moved to require retirees to hold certain income levels before moving to the DR.
This is not about who's at fault, but what's happening and how it happened to those that don't know the roots of the cause...
Now I'll go and clean my closet of those old early 80's ties for good... Thanks for the reminder...
Ack! To think I used to wear this leather tie with the New York Times articles printed on it!!!! What was I thinking back then!!!!
Spot on...
And to keep this metro related; how ironic is it that my deceased grandfather would take a train from Santiago to Sanchez to go camping in the Samana area some 80 years ago..
Some people think the metro is hairbrained or far-fetched in 2008? Anyone check the price of oil lately?
I hope your grandfather wasn't deceased during the time when he went camping. Your justification for the metro from the price of oil makes little sense when the majority of electricity is powered from oil fired electrical generators. Perhaps if the electricity was generated from hydro-powered generators.
That is a very short term situation, if you are current on plans, I will have you know within the next few years this will be a thing of the past.
All new generation will be either coal fired, natural gas or hydro, sevaral of each are in differrent stages of construction and or planning, add to that several generators will be converted to natural gas and new alternative renewable energy projects be completed.
A metro and national rail system is not built overnight, but it is no doubt the right direction to go now.
Back when they started building the Metro system in NYC and many other major cities in the U.S., poverty there was about as bad as in Santo Domingo today. Those were the times of tenement buildings, and child labor often times worst than what you see in Santo Domingo today.
PICHARDO, the root of a problem needs to be fixed before fixing the problem itself, or it will reappear.
In this case, I was pointing to the fact that is US, the Dominican people and our way of thinking that causes the problem. We are the root of the problem.
It doesn't matter what we build, it will not work because we only believe in making big gestures, but not in following through. Any baseball fan knows that if you don't follow through on a swing, it has no force - no matter how strong the initial swing is.
The Metro is a huge swing, but without any force behind it. There is no following through - it will crumble and it will not fix anything it was designed to.
"Waste not, want not."
What the government SHOULD do is invest more in education. How come we only invest around 2% of our GDP on our MOST IMPORTANT ASSEST (Educated People)?
For now, I would be content if, at least, the people KNEW their government was stupid. Action should come afterwards, sooner rather than later.