Varying Degrees of Intolerance to Homosexuality - Why?

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Bernard Jean-Pierre

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It is a well established fact (at least in my mind) that there is MUCH stronger intolerance to homosexuality in Caribbean cultures (DR included logically) in general than say, the US or other 'gay friendly Countries' (political correctness aside).
Topping the list (I would say) is Jamaica. But the Dominican Republic would probably not be too far behind. Logically I'm sure there are a considerable number of homosexuals living there (Jamaica), but I would imagine they would find a GREAT contrast in how society in general 'accepts' them in the US.
But I have not been able to figure exactly WHY there is such a difference.
In the US I have seen homosexual men walking together, holding hands even kissing in public places etc. I (somewhat ironically) have not seen as many Women doing the same. Its 'somewhat ironic' to me, because a lot of guys would probably not take much case with Women kissing each other. And although people in general (in the US) STILL react in a "I'm just going to pretend I don't see that, because if I look long enough it will make me uncomfortable" type of way, its growing number of people who are of the 'alternative lifestyle' camp and even 'pro-gay' (not professionally gay lol, but you know supporters of such. ie: pro-life vs. woman's right to abort etc)

In any big cities (Santo Domingo) you will normally always find a larger population of homosexuals - and yes they are quickly labeled 'pajaro' 'bugarrones' etc. But I would say there is more of an established intolerance in comparison to other places. My argument/question is NOT - "the US is more tolerant so thats better..." or "is it fair for homosexuals?...". No. I only want to know if anyone has any decent, relatively verifiable and reasonable viewpoints as to WHY the contrast is so great.
Does anyone have any points of view as to why??
Why do you think there is more intolerance in say DR, Jamaica and Caribbean culture in general??

Please Note:The question is NOT - "Is intolerance right or wrong?" or "Is homosexuality right or wrong?" etc. So feel free to excuse any notion to answer such questions.
 

Naked_Snake

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It is a well established fact (at least in my mind) that there is MUCH stronger intolerance to homosexuality in Caribbean cultures (DR included logically) in general than say, the US or other 'gay friendly Countries' (political correctness aside).
Topping the list (I would say) is Jamaica. But the Dominican Republic would probably not be too far behind. Logically I'm sure there are a considerable number of homosexuals living there (Jamaica), but I would imagine they would find a GREAT contrast in how society in general 'accepts' them in the US.
But I have not been able to figure exactly WHY there is such a difference.
In the US I have seen homosexual men walking together, holding hands even kissing in public places etc. I (somewhat ironically) have not seen as many Women doing the same. Its 'somewhat ironic' to me, because a lot of guys would probably not take much case with Women kissing each other. And although people in general (in the US) STILL react in a "I'm just going to pretend I don't see that, because if I look long enough it will make me uncomfortable" type of way, its growing number of people who are of the 'alternative lifestyle' camp and even 'pro-gay' (not professionally gay lol, but you know supporters of such. ie: pro-life vs. woman's right to abort etc)

In any big cities (Santo Domingo) you will normally always find a larger population of homosexuals - and yes they are quickly labeled 'pajaro' 'bugarrones' etc. But I would say there is more of an established intolerance in comparison to other places. My argument/question is NOT - "the US is more tolerant so thats better..." or "is it fair for homosexuals?...". No. I only want to know if anyone has any decent, relatively verifiable and reasonable viewpoints as to WHY the contrast is so great.
Does anyone have any points of view as to why??
Why do you think there is more intolerance in say DR, Jamaica and Caribbean culture in general??

Please Note:The question is NOT - "Is intolerance right or wrong?" or "Is homosexuality right or wrong?" etc. So feel free to excuse any notion to answer such questions.

One is tempted to say, at least in the Hispanic Caribbean, that it has been the influence of the Catholic Church and social conservatism. But the reason for this intolerance being also present in Jamaica escapes me, quite frankly. What are the societal mores over there?
 

jrhartley

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I know that various caribbean islands have banned gay cruise ships in the past, but apparently the Dominican Republic has always been more tolerant
 

greydread

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I have seen many openly gay Men in Santo Domingo and I didn't know there was that much of a homophobia problem there. There also seems to be a number of gay Men of the "downlow" variety there on par with, say a similarly sized US city. I don't see them lip locking in the street but they do set the "gaydar" on high alert.

BTW, there is a disproportionate number of gays in Jamaica. All that hate is a rude bwoy yardie thing.
 

Bernard Jean-Pierre

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I know that various caribbean islands have banned gay cruise ships in the past, but apparently the Dominican Republic has always been more tolerant

Yea I can't go into much detail about all the other Islands, but I know for a fact in Jamaica it is a 'no go'. I went there for an impromptu vacation with my good friend who just so happened to score a virtually 'free' deal at an AI there. Soon as we stepped into customs the guy at the counter gave us a real hard time, and didn't quite realize it at the time, but he no doubt assumed that we were 'together' (a gay couple) since we were going to a resort (a resort probably always frequented by couples, newly weds etc). Its funny now, but its a typical example of the type of view of homosexuality that is there.
I would conclude that maybe its just a branching out of 'machismo' culture that you find in Caribbean-Spanish cultures. But I would say there is MUCH more machismo in DR than Jamaica, but Jamaica is WAY more intolerant to homosexuality. So, I don't know.
 

Chirimoya

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You don't see public displays of affection between straight couples in the DR either, so that's no indicator.
 

DMV123

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I think the homophobia is partly the influence of the church but also the lack of education. Many people here have the ideas and assumptions from years and years ago. NOt just about this but many other things as well.
 

greydread

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Yea I can't go into much detail about all the other Islands, but I know for a fact in Jamaica it is a 'no go'. But I would say there is MUCH more machismo in DR than Jamaica, but Jamaica is WAY more intolerant to homosexuality. So, I don't know.

Different people have different experiences I guess. I was in Negril a couple times this year and the manager at the place I stayed last spring was the gayest dude I'd seen all day, and I flew through Atlanta.

Negril is full of "cougars" and "chickenhawks".

The "machismo" is there. You just don't see it near the resorts. Jamaica is poorer than the Dominican Republic and it's tourism is fading while tourism in the D.R. remains robust. If a worker slips out of character in a Jamaican resort there are 1,000 guys ready to take his place.
 

AlterEgo

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This thread surprised me because I've always considered Santo Domingo/southern coast to be very tolerant of gay men. They're out and they're proud, and no one bothers them. 'Live and let live' seems to be the motto I've observed.

AE
 

Bernard Jean-Pierre

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This thread surprised me because I've always considered Santo Domingo/southern coast to be very tolerant of gay men. They're out and they're proud, and no one bothers them. 'Live and let live' seems to be the motto I've observed.

AE

I may have lead in you in the wrong direction, I was just mentioning that in most larger cities you will see more homosexuals, and they are normally more 'tolerated' perhaps just because in a larger city people generally busier and more concerned with their daily affairs. There is no aggressive hate (that I have seen) but the Dominican Republic is more on the intolerant side of the spectrum.
 

Taino808

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Machismo in Latin culture plays a big part in everything, especially here in DR. things are changing, whether its for better or worse we?ll have to wait and see. Anyhow, I remember way back in 1990 when I was still a young buck, I came across the first Dominican gay man in New York City. I was dumbfounded that he happened to be gay and Dominican. At that time I couldn?t fathom the fact that there could be gay Dominicans, maybe growing up in a heavily machismo oriented culture had something to do with my personal view back then.

Now a days you see gay men all over the tv here in DR. That was something you would not see ten or fifteen years ago.
 

Bernard Jean-Pierre

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Machismo in Latin culture plays a big part in everything, especially here in DR. things are changing, whether its for better or worse we?ll have to wait and see. Anyhow, I remember way back in 1990 when I was still a young buck, I came across the first Dominican gay man in New York City. I was dumbfounded that he happened to be gay and Dominican. At that time I couldn?t fathom the fact that there could be gay Dominicans, maybe growing up in a heavily machismo oriented culture had something to do with my personal view back then.

Now a days you see gay men all over the tv here in DR. That was something you would not see ten or fifteen years ago.

Yea I agree. Good point that you mentioned about seeing them on TV now. Los Due?os del Circo for example (actually I don't really even know if they are 'technically' or 'openly' gay, but yea) are on TV and in the media etc. That was certainly not the case years ago, there nor stateside. Its a gradual and perhaps begrudgingly so, but its happening.
 

bob saunders

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I may have lead in you in the wrong direction, I was just mentioning that in most larger cities you will see more homosexuals, and they are normally more 'tolerated' perhaps just because in a larger city people generally busier and more concerned with their daily affairs. There is no aggressive hate (that I have seen) but the Dominican Republic is more on the intolerant side of the spectrum.

The last Major of Jarabacoa was a married man with children, but the whole town knew about his boyfriend, and he still got reelected....etc. One may not see it on the surface but Dominican society is conservative and tolerant at the same time. It is a country of contradictions.
 

jrhartley

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basically if you like someone - you like them ,I dont think people judge too much....or maybe they just dont know about me lol
 

Tamborista

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This would be a local DR sign for "Pajaro", insinuating that someone is gay:
istockphoto_885434-hand-gesture-05-like-a-bird-vector.jpg

Before that you have to use your mouth to point to that person, hard to describe...its like moving the mouth toward that direction. This you can use to point anything.

You seem to be fascinated with the alternative lifestyle, R U sure you wouldn't be happier on Mykonos renting villas with rainbow flags to Serbian boys?
 

greydread

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...there are also varying degrees of homosexuality lol

Okay so hypothetically speaking (wink) if I have a girlfriend on the island who is admittedly bisexual and after making love with her she remarks that I "make love to a Woman like another Woman would"...does that confer a degree of homosexuality upon me? Am I a lesbian trapped in a Man's body? Is there a cure?
 

Ken

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Okay so hypothetically speaking (wink) if I have a girlfriend on the island who is admittedly bisexual and after making love with her she remarks that I "make love to a Woman like another Woman would"...does that confer a degree of homosexuality upon me? Am I a lesbian trapped in a Man's body? Is there a cure?

It's a compliment on your love making skills from a woman's point of view. No need for a cure, just keep doing what you are doing.
 
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