What prevents Coups in DR

Haiti so far has had 33 coups on this little caribbean island. DR is considered for the most part a very poor nation and poor for a long time. What prevents this country and many othe countries in the western hemisphere from participating in coups. Why do so many countries allow their elected officials to consistently take advantage of them. Even a super power Russia had coups when the people felt enough is enough. Can we call this a pasification of a people when governments can do what they want to do.

Not to say Coups would be effective. Haiti had 33 with nothing to show for it. Russia has had two major coups which made drastic empacts to that region.


Just some food for thought.
 

Chirimoya

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Dec 9, 2002
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A working democracy, or at least the perception, some might say illusion, that things can be changed at the ballot box, prevents people from rising up against the government. The DR has this, Haiti doesn't.

A docile population, easily bought off by short-term benefits, will place their faith in political parties and pin their hopes on political change in the next election. Haiti hasn't been 'democratic' long enough for people to believe in this.

A government that knows which side its bread is buttered will pander to the army's every whim, and in return, the army will not depose it. Aristide disbanded the Haitian army, DR governments provide the army with excessive funding.

Revolutionary theorists used to say that extreme poverty was not a good breeding ground for revolution because people were too concerned with their own immediate survival to organise and revolt. Revolutions were more likely when people's bellies were full and they could then turn their energies to fighting injustice. The contrasts between Haiti and the DR contradict this belief. If what is happening in Haiti is a popular uprising, it is the action of a people with nothing to lose.

Chiri
 

ltsnyder

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thinking . . .

If what is happening in Haiti is a popular uprising, it is the action of a people with nothing to lose.

awww I don't know about that, I think the conclusion from Haiti is if you want to overthrow a poor democratic government less outside capital is required.

The biggest lie of any media is to show "people dancing in the street", biggest cliche in the world, show a small crowd dancing in the street as reported by CNN, and every one says "well I guess it was a revolution of the common man" and goes back to sleep.

-Lee
 

Chris_NJ

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Dec 17, 2003
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no coups in DR?

I finished reading last week a book on the history of DR and it looks like from the beginning up until the '80s it has been 1 opposition group after another using force to overturn the present government of the time in DR.
 
Chris_NJ said:
I finished reading last week a book on the history of DR and it looks like from the beginning up until the '80s it has been 1 opposition group after another using force to overturn the present government of the time in DR.

I don't think it is close to 33 coups. The leaders in DR had a heavy fist which kept it's opponents in check.
 

Narcosis

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Dec 18, 2003
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Balaguer

Balaguer once said:

You must keep the Boa well feed in order to avoid it eating you.

The boa being the armed forces.

We are just starting to realize how important Balaguer was for the stability of the post-Trujillo D.R. era.

With all of his faults he was a great leader with a deep understanding of politics and the Latin American way of thought, and was very in-touch with Haiti as well.

If you compare DR post-dictatorship period with some other L.A. countries, especially Nicaragua, El Salvador, Honduras and Guatemala, you will see what I mean.
 

Chris_NJ

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I wasn't counting but it seemed like there were a lot of changes in the DR's government due to the military action of the "opposition." . The only period when the government remained in 1 person's hand for an extended period of time was during Trujillo's time (and we know what happened to him) and also during Balageur's.

I would recommend the book - The Dominican Republic: A National History (Frank Moya Pons). It is a little dry at times but covers DR's history thoroughly from the beginning to the early 1990's.

Does anybody else recommend other goods books on DR's history?
 

NALs

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Jan 20, 2003
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Well, here is a thought...

Dominicans (me included) are very easy going folks. They don't do much to bother other people (with the exemption of merengue music blasting at full volume all hours of the day and sometimes the night), we simply sit on our chairs under a palm next to a colmado with a bottle of rum on the left hand, a "ficha" of dominos on the right hand, a mouth complaining about politics, and a body that is in better condition than that of most people in developed
countries.

Then, Hippo comes into the news and he starts with his jokes before he gets serious in answering the questions but the lights goes off and all people hear are his unappealing jokes about society. Dominicans get mad at Hippo and in the heat of things buy some rum, play more dominos, talk more crap, and maybe even get laid at the end of the day. By next morning, everything happens over again and before you know it, as a dominican, you take your last breathe of air and into the "bobeda" you go after having a good life of complaining and having fun after the complaints. Oh yeah, I forgot to add the weekly trips to the nearest Western Union to collect on the greenback coming from New York.

So you see, life in the DR is nothing but a dream. Despite the facade of poverty and perception of misery, most people in the DR are quite comfortable with themselves and their lifestyles, they love politics Dominican style and so, they don't really revolt. Yes, they create Huelgas but that is to take vacation time or extend a festive time (notice how January people basically did nothing with the parties and the Huelgas week after week).

In Haiti people don't have that mentality. They look around and they see dirt, poverty and more dirt. And it's not like in the DR, because in the DR the dirt is covered with beautiful flora and the poverty is painted in rainbow colors that brightens ones day up. In Haiti, the sun shines on the harsh unfiltered realities, and when you see your own child starve to death day after day after day after day, you begin to built recentment. Haitians don't have a bit of love for Politics and thus, you get a revolution. That is my theory of why Dominicans don't revolt. Besides, elections are only a good number of weeks away, they can always vote Hippo out and talk more politics between now and election time, with a bottle of rum, a game of dominos, etc. etc. etc. GOD!!! I LOVE THE DOMINICAN REPUBLIC!!!!
 

DRsScarface

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Feb 26, 2004
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No coups in DR

I think that the reason that there are no coups in DR is because eventhough there is poverty almost everyone has at least something to eat. This is not like in Haiti where people starve to death and last an entire week without seeing food. Haiti has alot more of a reason for a coup than the DR.

Taking adavice or following in the steps of Haiti is also not a good idea. They dont exactly set a good example.

Coups in DR would also b useless because as a dominican i noticed dat Dominican people never seem to b satisfied with anything and some just want everything for free.
 
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Not only dominicans, everyone wants something for nothing. Both Haiti and the DR are truly screwed up countries economically and politically.
 
Onions&carrots said:
Not only dominicans, everyone wants something for nothing. Both Haiti and the DR are truly screwed up countries economically and politically.

I agree with you on that one Onion. Any and everyone would rather have it free than pay. Rich or poor. i.e. "Getting a hookup"

But on the topic it may appear that Dominicans may have a different tolerance level than Haiti. Also someones well-being also plays a role. If you are starving you either to weak to do anything about it or you get mad as hell and can't take it anymore.
 

Narcosis

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You need to understand the political make-up of the D.R. to understand the topic in reference.

The D.R. political landscape has no true far left or right of any importance, thus almost all political parties have common idealogical stances on everything.

Even though the parties were founded on socialist or conservative bases years ago, these "ideals" have slowly merged to the center.

That explains why traditional left parties like PLD and PRD have embraced neo-liberal stances on globalization, trade, foreign investment, privitazation etc.

This being said, without a true full-blown opposition in idealogical terms, no need for "revolutionay" changes have been sought.

It is just a matter of who will deal the cards for the next 4 years.
 

Criss Colon

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Great post "Narcosis"!

If everyone who reads DR1 could "digest" what you have just said,they would be a long way to understanding Dominican Politics!Cris Colon
 

Texas Bill

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Feb 11, 2003
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For what it's worth?

In order to foment a true "revolution", an opposition must have several essentials if it is to be successful; IE.,
1) Sufficient financial backing. That is necessary for the purchase of arms and ammunition as the 'enforcement' behind the political leaders.
2) A 'Strong' charasmatic, altruistic (seemingly so) leader behind whom the population can rally and envision a modocum of success.
3) A 'work-up' of the population toward the degree of discontent necessary to trigger a spontaneous erruption coinciding with the military attack of essential targets.
4) A strong 'military type' leader who can anticipate the preventive tactics of the military incumbants and who is a bit smarter, a bit more disciplined, with freer movement in his counterattacks, and who will not be subverted by personal desires to rule after successfully removing the opposition. Often this is the same individual who fomented the revolution.
5) Be able to effect a smooth transition to the new governing bodies.

I really don't think, to begin with, that anyone in the DR wishes to go through such an extended evolution and thus the apathy from all levels of society.

Texas Bill
 

bhale

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I've only been to DR once last year but want to return many times.I don't know much about DR politics (plenty about US), but one thing is undeniable. If DR's leaders would just do the basics right, it would be one helluva great place to live. What do I mean about the basics? The infrastructure of the country; decent roads, reliable electricity, clean water supplies, rule of law dished out equitably, and strong property rights.

I willl say that one of the most attractive things to me about the DR (coming from a US citizen) is it's lack of rules and regulations. God!!! We are choking from them in the US. It's everywhere!! It's in everything we do. I sometimes think I'm probably in violation of some regulation each day when I take my morning crap!
 

DRsScarface

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Feb 26, 2004
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No coups for DR

O&C,
What im trying to say is that in a way Dominicans don't have the right to protest and make a coup because they are partly to blame for some of the crisis going on in the DR. I know that there are high levels of corruption and that that is a problem, but im sure that wen 99% of ur go to the DR we hear people complaining about the light but arent the dominican people largely to blame for this? I have been witness to Dominicans ripping and tearing their electricity bills and never paying for their services. Ask yourself....if the electric copany is providing a service at no cost....won't it go bankrupt? If they go bankrupt, how will they provide a servoce? People know that its their fault that their is an energy crisis, so why dont they start paying bills for once.

As long as Dominicans dont start acting like appropriate citizens, our country will not progress.
 

CES

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Jan 1, 2002
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. . . and this:

<font size=3>Amnesty International</font>

Dominican Republic:

Unlawful Killings, Excessive Force, Arbitrary Arrests
Economic Crisis Breeding Violations by Security Forces, Says Amnesty International


(Washington, DC) ? The Dominican Republic's 'iron fist' approach to maintaining public order amidst the country's current economic crisis is taking a devastating toll on human rights, warned Amnesty International today in a new report, Dominican Republic: Human Rights Recession. As many Dominicans mobilize to protest the rising prices of basic necessities and the lack of available electricity -- caused by the serious decline in value of the Dominican peso -- security forces are responding with unlawful killings of demonstrators and bystanders, arbitrary arrests of activists and excessive use of force.

"While the US remains focused on the brutal turmoil in Haiti, human rights violations are escalating just across the border due to the insidious problem of impunity," said Dr. William F. Schulz, Executive Director of Amnesty International USA. "Although widespread abuses by Dominican security forces, including extrajudicial executions, have long been documented, rarely are the perpetrators of these crimes brought to justice."

<font size=1>- snip -</font>

March 1, 2004

. . . CES
:alien: