Advice wanted -

[Berzin]

I highly doubt anyone is going to come on a public forum and say "Yes, I signed a pre-nup and got my property taken after the divorce". People who've gone to the DR with the same intentions as yourself and wound up losing usually slinker off into the darkness and are never heard from again on this forum.

The law is not your friend in the DR, regardless of what type of official document you sign. The legal system isn't going to do you a darn bit of good unless you're well-connected. Even then it's a crap shoot.

You want to have a child with someone who may take your property and wind up hosing you for child support in a foreign country. Since you mentioned having an 18 year-old, I'm assuming you're at the very least in our late 30s-early 40's. Life should have taught you a few lessons already, like in the DR decisions are made by the MEN, not the women.

Just the fact that you're entertaining her suggestions tells me you're not fit for what could be coming at you. You seem not to understand that any short-term request on her part is probably due to some scam she's got cooking for you long-term.

She's been coached by someone, judging from her requests.

My question to you is, who's coaching you?

 

[BNuts]

I highly doubt anyone is going to come on a public forum and say "Yes, I signed a pre-nup and got my property taken after the divorce". People who've gone to the DR with the same intentions as yourself and wound up losing usually slinker off into the darkness and are never heard from again on this forum.

The law is not your friend in the DR, regardless of what type of official document you sign. The legal system isn't going to do you a darn bit of good unless you're well-connected. Even then it's a crap shoot.

You want to have a child with someone who may take your property and wind up hosing you for child support in a foreign country. Since you mentioned having an 18 year-old, I'm assuming you're at the very least in your late 30s-early 40's. Life should have taught you a few lessons already, like in the DR decisions are made by the MEN, not the women.

Just the fact that you're entertaining her suggestions tells me you're not fit for what could be coming at you. You seem not to understand that any short-term request on her part is probably due to some scam she's got cooking for you long-term.

She's been coached by someone, judging from her requests.

My question to you is, who's coaching you?

Thank you, this is feedback I can understand and appreciate.

 

[xamaicano]

I am bit confused as to what constitutes "decent" and "respectable" around here. Let see, among other issues, you knocked up a woman out of wedlock with a child that you are not completely certain is yours yet she still qualifies as woman of decent and respectable pedigree. Is it because she is not a hooker?

 

[BNuts]

I am bit confused as to what constitutes "decent" and "respectable" around here. Let see, among other issues, you knocked up a woman out of wedlock with a child that you are not completely certain is yours yet she still qualifies as woman of decent and respectable pedigree. Is it because she is not a hooker?

No man, I've known the girl for more than a year now. She's no pro and from what I've seen she's not even minor league. So. yes, decent. Compared to standards of women in their 20's in the U.S. This girls the Virgin Marry and from what I remember of some of the European countries, even more so. So in many ways is she a decent go to church on Sunday (literally) girl, yes, I would say so. But the culture here is very different and from what I've seen taking advantage of the gringo for monetary gain is not a problem because of their culture. Someone made the point earlier that she's being coached. I think this is very likely and that's why I came here looking for some facts and opinions. I got a lot of opinions. haahhaa I was hoping for a bit more but someone else made the point that the experience I am looking for probably doesn't exist here. I have been reading over Dominican law (yes, I'm aware it's who you know here) and there are some things that have me very concerned. The first and foremost being the courts ability to make me pay a year's worth of child support in advance if I want to leave the country. Other concerns I have are on the amount of child support. I've read that their is no formula for determining child support payments and that it is arbitrarily decided by a judge and while income is considered, it is not the deciding factor in child support. I can only tell you that I've confirmed these things through several different sources on the web. Hell, one attorny I spoke to down here about a few other issues wasn't even aware of the laws of his own country. So I don't take much stock in what the average lawyer here says anyway. Now the two issues I've mentioned are enough to have me packing my bags. Add to that what I've mentioned in my original post and a few other things I have not and I don't see way out of this that doesn't involve leaving. Now I will happily support my child after a DNA test and happily pay for medical costs for the woman. But while in many ways, I do consider her decent, I have the suspicion that she is being coached and that it could harm me. Unfortunately, I knew her for a little over 7 months and she was pregnant before these issues started up and believe me I was looking. But it's water under the bridge now. I'm very happy to have a kid on the way but it sucks the culture down here is the way that it is. However, I will do my best to provide for the child and to get custody if possible. It is what it is. Thank you everyone.

 

[AlterEgo]

BNuts, I think you have your head screwed on pretty straight, your eyes are open and you know the laws. I was glad to read you plan to have DNA test done. It does sound as though she has something up her sleeve, but only time will tell what that is. My advice is to go forward slowly, wait for the DNA results, keep your eyes and ears open at all times, and you should be fine.

Next Sunday is my 34th wedding anniversary to a Dominican man. Two kids and two grandsons later, I still have my eyes and ears open :cheeky:

DR1 can do that to you! :bunny::bunny::bunny:

AE

 

[bob saunders]

No man, I've known the girl for more than a year now. She's no pro and from what I've seen she's not even minor league. So. yes, decent. Compared to standards of women in their 20's in the U.S. This girls the Virgin Marry and from what I remember of some of the European countries, even more so. So in many ways is she a decent go to church on Sunday (literally) girl, yes, I would say so. But the culture here is very different and from what I've seen taking advantage of the gringo for monetary gain is not a problem because of their culture. Someone made the point earlier that she's being coached. I think this is very likely and that's why I came here looking for some facts and opinions. I got a lot of opinions. haahhaa I was hoping for a bit more but someone else made the point that the experience I am looking for probably doesn't exist here. I have been reading over Dominican law (yes, I'm aware it's who you know here) and there are some things that have me very concerned. The first and foremost being the courts ability to make me pay a year's worth of child support in advance if I want to leave the country. Other concerns I have are on the amount of child support. I've read that their is no formula for determining child support payments and that it is arbitrarily decided by a judge and while income is considered, it is not the deciding factor in child support. I can only tell you that I've confirmed these things through several different sources on the web. Hell, one attorny I spoke to down here about a few other issues wasn't even aware of the laws of his own country. So I don't take much stock in what the average lawyer here says anyway. Now the two issues I've mentioned are enough to have me packing my bags. Add to that what I've mentioned in my original post and a few other things I have not and I don't see way out of this that doesn't involve leaving. Now I will happily support my child after a DNA test and happily pay for medical costs for the woman. But while in many ways, I do consider her decent, I have the suspicion that she is being coached and that it could harm me. Unfortunately, I knew her for a little over 7 months and she was pregnant before these issues started up and believe me I was looking. But it's water under the bridge now. I'm very happy to have a kid on the way but it sucks the culture down here is the way that it is. However, I will do my best to provide for the child and to get custody if possible. It is what it is. Thank you everyone.

Look, you've already said she's a decent girl, you've said if the child is your's you have no problem with paying so whether you have to pay a year in advance if you are leaving or monthy, for your child shouldn't be a big factor to worry about. The fact that she want a church wedding in the future means she probably does in fact have a strong connection with her religion. Much of what you say about her contradicts the other things you say about her. Are you talking facts or gut feelings? Nothing you've said here would give you a snowballs chance in hell of getting custody of the child. You may be forty years old but it seems to me you have some serious maturity problems.

 

[xamaicano]

However, I will do my best to provide for the child and to get custody if possible. It is what it is. Thank you everyone.

A few questions. If there weren't any of the concerns you mentioned, what kind of future did you see with her? What kind of mother did you see her being to the child? Do you live in the DR? If not, did you plan to live there or eventually bring her back home?

I ask these questions because oftentimes these women enter into relationships with foreigners because they provide a better future and sometimes the situation does not lend itself to much security. We often on DR1 only look to protect the interest of the foreigner without any thought to how these type of relationships are viewed by the Dominican. Lets say that she truly loves you what are the guarantees that you won't up and book. What may seem like a con may just be her protecting her interest. Don't take this as my being naive or that you shouldn't look out for your interest. I am just saying that if you think she is "decent" and "respectable" then at least try to assess your situation (which only the two of you know) honestly and see if there may be reasons that she would be a bit cautious.

People here often treat the locals as playthings but you are dealing with a real human being (even hustlers) and the foreigner is more than just a naive romantic. We all want something. So it is important that you know that what you want and what she wants can coexist.

 

[BNuts]

Look, you've already said she's a decent girl, you've said if the child is your's you have no problem with paying so whether you have to pay a year in advance if you are leaving or monthy, for your child shouldn't be a big factor to worry about. The fact that she want a church wedding in the future means she probably does in fact have a strong connection with her religion. Much of what you say about her contradicts the other things you say about her. Are you talking facts or gut feelings? Nothing you've said here would give you a snowballs chance in hell of getting custody of the child. You may be forty years old but it seems to me you have some serious maturity problems.

I don't know about maturity issues Bob but I've certainly had some experiences with women. After doing some reading on my own I would agree with you on the snowball. And it has been more than a gut feeling so if I seem a little gun shy it's not without reason. I just wanted some questions answered from some people with a little more experience than I have down here. Some opinions of people who may be a little more fluent in the culture. I expected the rest of the crap. If it helps you get a clearer picture, I don't suck my thumb at night. I can go potty all by myself, etc. I'm just trying to side step some land mines. I've gotten some useful input. Don't count on the law working in any way that could be consider fair. Yep, that's good advice here. Hell, I know that after watching a Dominican attempt to murder a foreigner and was let out of jail only a few days later. Ya, the legal system is screwed and she has family that might be in the know. I've got my ass, a check book and a credit card down here. So say what you like about maturity, things can be much more serious down here and I'm of the opinion that I should be concerned. But thanks for the advice.

 

[BNuts]

A few questions. If there weren't any of the concerns you mentioned, what kind of future did you see with her? What kind of mother did you see her being to the child? Do you live in the DR? If not, did you plan to live there or eventually bring her back home?

I ask these questions because oftentimes these women enter into relationships with foreigners because they provide a better future and sometimes the situation does not lend itself to much security. We often on DR1 only look to protect the interest of the foreigner without any thought to how these type of relationships are viewed by the Dominican. Lets say that she truly loves you what are the guarantees that you won't up and book. What may seem like a con may just be her protecting her interest. Don't take this as my being naive or that you shouldn't look out for your interest. I am just saying that if you think she is "decent" and "respectable" then at least try to assess your situation (which only the two of you know) honestly and see if there may be reasons that she would be a bit cautious.

People here often treat the locals as playthings but you are dealing with a real human being (even hustlers) and the foreigner is more than just a naive romantic. We all want something. So it is important that you know that what you want and what she wants can coexist.

Actually, after seeing her with her familie's children and knowing that she's spent a lot of time helping to raise them, I think she will be a good mother. As for a future the sky is the limit. I planed to live here for several years and let her get an education, I'm not trump rich but I've got enough to live comfortably here or in the states. I assumed the culture shock would be lessened if I lived here for a few years. Then, after being much more comfortable with the situation, after she learned English, if she wanted to try living in the U.S., no problem but the girl wants to live in the D.R. for now. It could be a good situation for her, time for education, a man with sufficient time to help who isn't interested in sleeping with every woman on the island. But I'm a realist as well, she's a younger woman, there are cultural differences, there have been some serious red flags. So if some of you are seeing mixed messages from me well --- I think you got a clear picture of where I'm at. On one hand I've watched this girl for a year and yes, she's a decent person, on the other hand I've seen some crafty **** from both her and her family. When I confronted her, it was like nothing was wrong, I could tell that is how she looked at things. I have money, so I should pay. And it may be that the gap between us because of that F'd up mind set is a bit too much. The things I like with respect to family values here are great. How they view and try to take advantage of gringos and each other - well.

 

[AlterEgo]

BNut, I had a thought.... if she's Catholic, she may want the civil marriage only for a couple of years to see if it will work. If it doesn't, she can get a civil divorce and still get married later in church. If she marries in church and gets divorced, that's not an option.

I could be way off base, but it kind of explains one of the questions you asked.

AE

 

[Alyonka]

BNuts, my ex was a gringo, I met him overseas and never expected him to pay or support me. I paid my own visa and ticket to come here and marry him. There are so many women out there who can support themselves and will never ask you for anything. Why choose someone needy from a third world country for marriage? Just because she is half your age? Bob's wife is the same way - never needed anything from him. And she is Dominican, actually. It is hard to imagine that a decent family would expect money from you or try to con you.

 

[BNuts]

BNut, I had a thought.... if she's Catholic, she may want the civil marriage only for a couple of years to see if it will work. If it doesn't, she can get a civil divorce and still get married later in church. If she marries in church and gets divorced, that's not an option.

I could be way off base, but it kind of explains one of the questions you asked.

AE

No AlterEgo, I think you're right on base with this one and sliding for home. I haven't heard anyone here say this was a custom so I'm looking at it as trying my wallet out for a couple of years and then she can get a Catholic wedding with someone else. I'd venture a guess that as strong as the Church here is, she would give up some legal rights by having a church wedding as well. I'd have to speak with an attorny about that one but that is my suspicion. She told me it was a custom here to marry in a civil wedding first. Now that I have a prenuptial agreement drawn up she doesn't want to marry at this time. Could be because she's pregnant and doesn't want the baby bump in the photos, could be that there is another angle.

 

[BNuts]

BNuts, my ex was a gringo, I met him overseas and never expected him to pay or support me. I paid my own visa and ticket to come here and marry him. There are so many women out there who can support themselves and will never ask you for anything. Why choose someone needy from a third world country for marriage? Just because she is half your age? Bob's wife is the same way - never needed anything from him. And she is Dominican, actually. It is hard to imagine that a decent family would expect money from you or try to con you.

Thank you for this post. I appreciate the point of veiw from a woman who is a Dominican Citizen more than about any other opinion here. What decent family would try to con a guy? I couldn't agree more.

 

[Alyonka]

Thank you for this post. I appreciate the point of veiw from a woman who is a Dominican Citizen more than about any other opinion here. What decent family would try to con a guy? I couldn't agree more.

I am not a Dominican citizen, but I have seen a lot of foreign men being taken advantage of by pretty young girls from poor countries and I feel sorry for them. Good luck to you!

 

[xamaicano]

Look, no one can know for sure. Yes the default on DR1 is to say she is scamming you but you know her better than we do. While it is just Monday morning quarterbacking but really dude, some things should have been worked out before knocking her up. It never ceases to amaze me the situations the situation that guys get themselves into without considering the consequences. Too many gringos jump into situations then quickly then cry victim. The reality is you have a child on the way and you will have to deal with that regardless of what she does or may be planning to do. It may be much ado about nothing or you may be in for one hell of a ride. The reality is there is a child involved and whether mom is a hustler or not matters very little and if your a man of any quality you will need to make sure that the kid is provided for financially and emotionally. That is your move, the rest is some silly schoolboy ****.

No AlterEgo, I think you're right on base with this one and sliding for home. I haven't heard anyone here say this was a custom so I'm looking at it as trying my wallet out for a couple of years and then she can get a Catholic wedding with someone else. I'd venture a guess that as strong as the Church here is, she would give up some legal rights by having a church wedding as well. I'd have to speak with an attorny about that one but that is my suspicion. She told me it was a custom here to marry in a civil wedding first. Now that I have a prenuptial agreement drawn up she doesn't want to marry at this time. Could be because she's pregnant and doesn't want the baby bump in the photos, could be that there is another angle.

 

[POPNYChic]

xamaicano speaks the truth.

 

[bob saunders]

Search back through the archives for a poster named Dale7. You and your situation remind me a lot of him. He had all the same doubts about his Dominican girl, whom he ended up marrying and moving to the states. I belive they have 3 children now.

 

[Bronxboy]

http://www.dr1.com/forums/men-mars-women-venus/30782-successful-relationships-dominican-style.html

 

[BNuts]

Look, no one can know for sure. Yes the default on DR1 is to say she is scamming you but you know her better than we do. While it is just Monday morning quarterbacking but really dude, some things should have been worked out before knocking her up. It never ceases to amaze me the situations the situation that guys get themselves into without considering the consequences. Too many gringos jump into situations then quickly then cry victim. The reality is you have a child on the way and you will have to deal with that regardless of what she does or may be planning to do. It may be much ado about nothing or you may be in for one hell of a ride. The reality is there is a child involved and whether mom is a hustler or not matters very little and if your a man of any quality you will need to make sure that the kid is provided for financially and emotionally. That is your move, the rest is some silly schoolboy ****.

Couldn't agree more and I'll do what I can for the child just like I took care of my first child who is now an adult, it's not the best situation but is it what it is. I don't think I jumped into anything lightly. I think there were two different agendas in mind from the start so please spin your moral compass elsewhere. I've done a lot of reading in the past two days, searching in both English and Spanish. I confirmed a few things about Dominican law (at least to the best of my ability) that indicates the girl is being coached and may have bad intentions towards me. The first is that yes, if married in a Catholic church, the girl would give up all rights to a civil divorce. The following is an excerpt that I found last night from some information on Divorce law here.

Paragraph 1.- However, in accordance with the essential properties of catholic marriage, it is understood that the fact itself of choosing to be joined in catholic marriage implies that the spouses waive their civil right to file for divorce, which for this reason may not be applied by Civil Courts to canonical marriages.

So, that explains why the girl said it was custom to marry civilly prior to a church wedding. In a church wedding she looses the right to half. Now, I've also read in the legal section here on DR1 on property laws that normally (without a prenuptial agreement) the spouse is entitled to half of everything in a divorce.

Also, child support here is the responsibility of both parents equally in accordance with their ability to pay. On the books, she makes nothing so I'm responsible for all of it and again, I found on another legal website that the judge does indeed review your income but the amount for child support is the decision for the judge. A friend of mine said he thought this was the situation and finding the information elsewhere confirmed it. Now I've got no problem paying what I would pay in the United States in my home state for one child where the mother has no income but I'm not going to get smacked by some crooked scheme because someone knows somebody. What I would send is a boatload of money down here by Dominican standards and is more than sufficient to pay for food, clothes, education, etc., with some left over, not to mention the girl gets what I've purchased for the apartment. No, I will not be paying for an apartment on top of what I send. Yes, I've also been picking up information on the cost of supporting a child here. What I would send is more than enough.

Also, for custody, the courts decide what is best for the child but from what I've read, if the child is under 4 years of age, he or she will go to the mother.

I also discussed the prenuptial agreement with her, I find it very odd that after obtaining it, she spent the afternoon with her family then returned to tell me that she didn't want marriage until after the child was here. Also, I said we could have a second wedding with all the bells and whistles but have a civil wedding now to see what the response would be, she still said no so in my opinion, her reasons of wanting to wait for the white dress church wedding are out the door. There is something else going on. I just don't think I'm going to be here to find out what that something is. I think I'll square up any bills here, I'll put another month down on the apartment knowing that by Dominican law she can stay many more moths without paying rent. Then I'll pack up and go quietly to avoid any issues until I'm back on my own soil. I'll arrange to have a regular deposit into her bank account. I will pay the hospital bills. I will make arrangements through a lawyer here for a DNA test and for citizenship for the child and I will go from there. But again, if I walked into this with honorable intentions and if the girl had a different agenda, I'm hardly in a position to see this as my fault. Oh I get to pay, hahaaa, and I am glad that I may have another child. But if a man is acting in an honorable fashion and those around him have dishonorable intentions - well - I'll do what I have to.

 

[bob saunders]

Couldn't agree more and I'll do what I can for the child just like I took care of my first child who is now an adult, it's not the best situation but is it what it is. I don't think I jumped into anything lightly. I think there were two different agendas in mind from the start so please spin your moral compass elsewhere. I've done a lot of reading in the past two days, searching in both English and Spanish. I confirmed a few things about Dominican law (at least to the best of my ability) that indicates the girl is being coached and may have bad intentions towards me. The first is that yes, if married in a Catholic church, the girl would give up all rights to a civil divorce. The following is an excerpt that I found last night from some information on Divorce law here.

Paragraph 1.- However, in accordance with the essential properties of catholic marriage, it is understood that the fact itself of choosing to be joined in catholic marriage implies that the spouses waive their civil right to file for divorce, which for this reason may not be applied by Civil Courts to canonical marriages.

So, that explains why the girl said it was custom to marry civilly prior to a church wedding. In a church wedding she looses the right to half. Now, I've also read in the legal section here on DR1 on property laws that normally (without a prenuptial agreement) the spouse is entitled to half of everything in a divorce.

Also, child support here is the responsibility of both parents equally in accordance with their ability to pay. On the books, she makes nothing so I'm responsible for all of it and again, I found on another legal website that the judge does indeed review your income but the amount for child support is the decision for the judge. A friend of mine said he thought this was the situation and finding the information elsewhere confirmed it. Now I've got no problem paying what I would pay in the United States in my home state for one child where the mother has no income but I'm not going to get smacked by some crooked scheme because someone knows somebody. What I would send is a boatload of money down here by Dominican standards and is more than sufficient to pay for food, clothes, education, etc., with some left over, not to mention the girl gets what I've purchased for the apartment. No, I will not be paying for an apartment on top of what I send. Yes, I've also been picking up information on the cost of supporting a child here. What I would send is more than enough.

Also, for custody, the courts decide what is best for the child but from what I've read, if the child is under 4 years of age, he or she will go to the mother.

I also discussed the prenuptial agreement with her, I find it very odd that after obtaining it, she spent the afternoon with her family then returned to tell me that she didn't want marriage until after the child was here. Also, I said we could have a second wedding with all the bells and whistles but have a civil wedding now to see what the response would be, she still said no so in my opinion, her reasons of wanting to wait for the white dress church wedding are out the door. There is something else going on. I just don't think I'm going to be here to find out what that something is. I think I'll square up any bills here, I'll put another month down on the apartment knowing that by Dominican law she can stay many more moths without paying rent. Then I'll pack up and go quietly to avoid any issues until I'm back on my own soil. I'll arrange to have a regular deposit into her bank account. I will pay the hospital bills. I will make arrangements through a lawyer here for a DNA test and for citizenship for the child and I will go from there. But again, if I walked into this with honorable intentions and if the girl had a different agenda, I'm hardly in a position to see this as my fault. Oh I get to pay, hahaaa, and I am glad that I may have another child. But if a man is acting in an honorable fashion and those around him have dishonorable intentions - well - I'll do what I have to.

Why don't you just ask her what her intentions are? Ask her why she wants to wait until after the child is born to get married in a civil wedding. Ask her what she's afraid of? She may actually be embarrased to be seen in a wedding picture with a big belly. It would seem to me that with the amount of distrust you have it would be hard to develop a healthy relationship with this girl. I'm not saying you have to have all your cards in the open but thinking that there's a hidden agenda behind everything she does is mentally unhealthy. Two different cultures at war here, and you'll both need to comprimise. Women of your own culture are hard enough to figure out, so perhaps trying to see where she coming from is difficult if not impossible if you don't ask the right questions.