- Thread starter Chirimoya
- Start date
Coping with a influx of refugees
I agree
I am a realistic person and I will admit that our half of the island have done a poor job in governing the country and obviously effect the other 2/3rd of the island. It doesn't take a genious to see that. I hate poverty, crime, seeing people live in inhumaine conditions whether it be Haitians or dominicans.
Solutions: Hmm!!!! For one lets start by cleaning in house first amongst the government mafiosa type of dictators in JBA case is a wanna be bourgoisie half a@@ dictatorship. I remember my uncle met JBA (b4 he became president) and said to me that this guy has dreams and a good vision for Haiti but doesn't have the resources and holds too much anger towards the older elite haitians. Hey, I see I'm going off the subject of finding a solution...LOL
Another important factor would be to decentralise the education sector and businesses.(DR needs implement this dearly as well) so the people in the provinces have at least the basic education and resources that would allow them to become productive in the society. Well, that's what I have for starters I will have many more suggestions rather than solutions that can up lift the island. Until next time..
Almost forgot, Narcosis please stop trying to fix up dms3611 insulting statements. Let he/she justify their reason for making such ridiculous statement. Obviously, that person can't defend him/herself w/o logical opinions.
BTW, I am not asking you to like or hate anyone. Just to put things into perspective that dominicans (majority) are facing the same poverty as their neighbors. Poverty is poverty wether it be some are in a deeper hole...
ciao..
Narcosis said:
I am a realistic person and I will admit that our half of the island have done a poor job in governing the country and obviously effect the other 2/3rd of the island. It doesn't take a genious to see that. I hate poverty, crime, seeing people live in inhumaine conditions whether it be Haitians or dominicans.
Solutions: Hmm!!!! For one lets start by cleaning in house first amongst the government mafiosa type of dictators in JBA case is a wanna be bourgoisie half a@@ dictatorship. I remember my uncle met JBA (b4 he became president) and said to me that this guy has dreams and a good vision for Haiti but doesn't have the resources and holds too much anger towards the older elite haitians. Hey, I see I'm going off the subject of finding a solution...LOL
Another important factor would be to decentralise the education sector and businesses.(DR needs implement this dearly as well) so the people in the provinces have at least the basic education and resources that would allow them to become productive in the society. Well, that's what I have for starters I will have many more suggestions rather than solutions that can up lift the island. Until next time..
Almost forgot, Narcosis please stop trying to fix up dms3611 insulting statements. Let he/she justify their reason for making such ridiculous statement. Obviously, that person can't defend him/herself w/o logical opinions.
BTW, I am not asking you to like or hate anyone. Just to put things into perspective that dominicans (majority) are facing the same poverty as their neighbors. Poverty is poverty wether it be some are in a deeper hole...
ciao..
Poverty
I understand that the DR is not a rich country but i think that saying that the levels of poverty in both countries are the same is just rediculous.
Remember.....25% of the people in DR live in poverty while in Haiti 80 percent live below the poverty line......those are very different numbers.
Don't get me wrong i do understand what you are trying to imply....both nations have poverty problems, and it's true, i wont argue that, but i just think that the poverty problem in Haiti is ALOT more serious.
I understand that the DR is not a rich country but i think that saying that the levels of poverty in both countries are the same is just rediculous.
Remember.....25% of the people in DR live in poverty while in Haiti 80 percent live below the poverty line......those are very different numbers.
Don't get me wrong i do understand what you are trying to imply....both nations have poverty problems, and it's true, i wont argue that, but i just think that the poverty problem in Haiti is ALOT more serious.
Pib said:
Pib'
I think you have made a VERY good point. From the standpoint of setting up 'refugee centers', I would STROGLY suggest that the ones responsible for such would do so along the coast of WESTERN Haiti. That way, there would be no jealousy fomented by relief efforts to the Haitians within the vision of Dominicans.
I am, however, certain that a large portion of the relief goods would end up in the DR, being brought over the border and sold by the Haitians, as it is today.
Texas Bill
No influx - as far as we can tell?
What is the situation at the moment? Is the increased military presence at the border effective?
The information I am getting is that most humanitarian organisations are going to be doing their work within Haiti, and the idea of 'refugee camps on the Dominican side of the border' has been purely hypothetical. The DR is being used as a bridge for aid delivery.
In Haiti there has been population displacement towards the urban centres creating pressure on the pitifully inadequate infrastructure. The aid organisations are going to be providing emergency shelter, water, sanitation facilities etc.
As long as the situation within Haiti remains stable, there should not be any marked increase in numbers of people trying to cross the border. Let's hope so anyway.
Chiri
What is the situation at the moment? Is the increased military presence at the border effective?
The information I am getting is that most humanitarian organisations are going to be doing their work within Haiti, and the idea of 'refugee camps on the Dominican side of the border' has been purely hypothetical. The DR is being used as a bridge for aid delivery.
In Haiti there has been population displacement towards the urban centres creating pressure on the pitifully inadequate infrastructure. The aid organisations are going to be providing emergency shelter, water, sanitation facilities etc.
As long as the situation within Haiti remains stable, there should not be any marked increase in numbers of people trying to cross the border. Let's hope so anyway.
Chiri
Refugees
I am stationed with a Hatian girl and she told me that her family told her everything is pretty much settled down and it is back to normal "bad". From what she told me everyone except some of the more militant Aristede supporters will be better off staying put and they know it.
John
I am stationed with a Hatian girl and she told me that her family told her everything is pretty much settled down and it is back to normal "bad". From what she told me everyone except some of the more militant Aristede supporters will be better off staying put and they know it.
John
*yawn* Another Haitian post. I understand that Dominicans must feel invaded and everything but come on. If it was an influx of white refugees everyone would be cool with it. As Rafael Trujillo demonstrated. I think Dominicans are more worried about Haitians darkening the population if anything. Hopefully there won't be another Dominican version of Hitler. :ermm:
Vainqueur_Noir said:
While I don't dispute that color has something to do with it the main reason for Dominicans not wanting an influx of Haitian refugees is $
The vast majority of these refugees will be extremely poor and uneducated. This will put a severe drain on the already cash strapped Dominican Goverment's services. If these refugees were rich and educated there would be a lot less complaining by Dominicans in spite of their color!
Tony C said:
Well, I don't think the Nazis had anything when Trujillo invited them, they were fleeing their country. But I understand what your saying. A country's capacity to harbor refugees is only so great. But still, I don't think they would mind as much if it was poor white refugees. Atleast it would be a contribution to the people's 'Emblanqucimiento' desires. With the Haitians, you're getting nothing out of it. But I understand that people can only do so much. Problems like these require divine intervention, which I've never seen. God has never revealed himself to me in anyway.
There is a visible increase in 'refugees' in the capital. There are many more Haitian women carrying small children begging at the traffic lights. These, however, are outnumbered by the other visible refugees: luxury SUVs with Haitian number plates, driven by rich Haitians and evacuated embassy and NGO personnel.
VN - Trujillo for all his faults did not invite Nazi fugitives as far as I know. The refugees were European Jews fleeing the Nazis, and they were backed up by a fund (don't remember the exact details) that covered their expenses.
Chiri
VN - Trujillo for all his faults did not invite Nazi fugitives as far as I know. The refugees were European Jews fleeing the Nazis, and they were backed up by a fund (don't remember the exact details) that covered their expenses.
Chiri
Chirimoya
Acceptance to "refugees" or "immigrants" is very conditional. Of course no one will object to wealthy educated Haitians coming to the DR.
It is very Hipocritical to make this simply a black/White issue again. It is about what you can add and not what you subtract from a society that will determine how you are recieved.
Acceptance to "refugees" or "immigrants" is very conditional. Of course no one will object to wealthy educated Haitians coming to the DR.
It is very Hipocritical to make this simply a black/White issue again. It is about what you can add and not what you subtract from a society that will determine how you are recieved.
Narcosis said:
Not really, unless you live in the U.S. of course. The D.R. doesn't have discrimination laws. See http://www.webcom.com/intvoice/javier8.html
Vainqueur_Noir said:
Yes they do!
Perhaps you should ask Fabio over in the Legal fourm!
While I believe there will always be racism in one for of the other It is obvious that a person acceptance is also judged by his wealth and education.
I can give you 2 examples in the DR.
Sammy Sosa. If wasn't an rich Allstar baseball player would not be accepted by such large masses of Dominican Society. There would be many place that he frequents now that wouldn't allow him in if he was just another "Tigre Negro"
Pena Gomez. For many Dominican a revered figure. For others the Anti-Christ. Either way one of the 3 most famous and accepted Dominicans (in the DR) since the 60's. Of course his enemies played the "Haitian" card in the elections but the PRD people didn't seem to mind the color of his skin!
When I first arrived in the DR, back in June, 2000, one of the things I first noticed was the manner in which people were described by the locals when referencing 'skin color', and 'hair'. They would pinch their skin and move the palm of their and along the side of their head. In addition, many of the women who were light in color would(and still are) always be seen with anumbrella. This observation has led me to believe that Dominican men and women consider 'light' skin color and straight hair is to be desired over physical beauty. I'm still don't know if that is evidence of inherent descrimination or not, but interpret it to be so since in every case the actions were in reference to the desirability of both women and men.
I have not, in all honesty, noticed any overt descrimination in the local society other than that particular description.
I might add that most of the local population (and this incorporates the area from Dajabon to Monticristi) are dark and have 'kinky' hair. I attribute this to the fact that this area has been populated principally by people of the negroid race with a minimum of Spanish, French and other Caucasian breedings.
As to the question of the influx of Haitians into the DR,as the result of the unrest in Haiti, I think the question is moot at this writing (3/12/2004) and further discussion would be non-productive.
Texas Bill
I have not, in all honesty, noticed any overt descrimination in the local society other than that particular description.
I might add that most of the local population (and this incorporates the area from Dajabon to Monticristi) are dark and have 'kinky' hair. I attribute this to the fact that this area has been populated principally by people of the negroid race with a minimum of Spanish, French and other Caucasian breedings.
As to the question of the influx of Haitians into the DR,as the result of the unrest in Haiti, I think the question is moot at this writing (3/12/2004) and further discussion would be non-productive.
Texas Bill
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Texas Bill said:
hmm thats funny, I was always under the impression that due to fair skin being prone to skin cancer, umbrellas where used to block the rays, not a symbol of "protecting beuty" As many of you know, over 60% of Australians have some form of skin cancer by the age of 45-50 due to the extreme sun conditions. You would think the fair skin Dominican woman living in the Caribbean are just being wise.
I also was educated on the condition of human hair, and there was this book on the subject. One being that "kinky" hair was considered to be of finer quality do the its durability under harsh conditions and extra fiber strands which adds to the strength of that type of hair uncommon to people with finer hair (such as myself). Its strange how misducation of the masses can be so worldly.
My wife and I had a rude awaking when we went to a farm that raised Alpacas from Peru because we were interested in raising them. As you know they have "kinky" fibers. And the Owner and specialist had fibers spread accross the table explaining to potential customers the quality of the fiber. They were using terms such as crimp and kinky and they were explaining how this is the finest fibers you can find because of its quality, durability, warmth and texture and the value was better than cashmire. They would then go further and explain that when you clean the fibers, you must remove all fine, and stringy type fiber threads and throw them away because they were of low quality. And as the woman was explaining this, she would pull the thin fibers and throw them to the ground as if it had germs. People were just standing there nodding there heads.
My wife could not stop laughing and people were turning around looking at us like we were crazy. We were the only people there of mixed color and they did not understand what we were giggling about. My wife had to call home to Santo Domingo and explain to her family what happen. It was truly amazing that with an animal that texture of fiber was quality yet, with humans we are taught that people with kinky hair is bad hair.
It was an amazing experience.
You can see my uncle with the dreads in the back
http://www.alpacanation.com/images/uploads_alpacas/10236_19733_ANJetSetB03.jpg
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Guess that is why people with "Kinky" hair spend so much $$$$ to "Straighten" it!
Maybe they should be selling it to make blankets and sweaters! "What a bunch of MIERDA!
Every country in the World has the sovereign right to control it's own borders!! They want to only let in "One Eyed Chinese Ping Pong Players",that is their right!Many of the Worlds problems result from one Country,or groups of Countries, trying to impose their cultures,morals,religions,economics on other Nations.
By the way,what does most of this have to do with the DR?
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PS,you may have a point about the "Durability" of "KINKY" hair!!! In the 1960s,A DuPont scientist collected hair from the floors of "Afro-American"(Is That Politically Correct "TODAY"?)barber shops in Chicago,he painted it green,wove it to sheets of plastic,and laid it out on the Chicago Bears football field.You know what they called it??? "Afro-Terf"!'''''''''''''''''''Worked really well,but then Michael Jordan shaved his head,the style became so popular that there was not enough long kinky hair available,they went to plastic!!
"Here Come Da Judge"!"Here Come Da Judge"!!!!!!
Maybe they should be selling it to make blankets and sweaters! "What a bunch of MIERDA!
Every country in the World has the sovereign right to control it's own borders!! They want to only let in "One Eyed Chinese Ping Pong Players",that is their right!Many of the Worlds problems result from one Country,or groups of Countries, trying to impose their cultures,morals,religions,economics on other Nations.
By the way,what does most of this have to do with the DR?
CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC
PS,you may have a point about the "Durability" of "KINKY" hair!!! In the 1960s,A DuPont scientist collected hair from the floors of "Afro-American"(Is That Politically Correct "TODAY"?)barber shops in Chicago,he painted it green,wove it to sheets of plastic,and laid it out on the Chicago Bears football field.You know what they called it??? "Afro-Terf"!'''''''''''''''''''Worked really well,but then Michael Jordan shaved his head,the style became so popular that there was not enough long kinky hair available,they went to plastic!!
"Here Come Da Judge"!"Here Come Da Judge"!!!!!!
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