Cost of living in the DR - how much will we need?

[Robert]

AK74, I know lots of people that live in the DR on under US$2,000 per month. I know a few people that have US$1-1.5 million invested and are doing very well. Plenty of money to carry them into their old age.

The bottom line, it comes down to lifestyle. What type of lifestyle do you want to live.
One man's trash is another man's treasure....

 

[AK74]

I'll try this:
1) If you want to get away from the rat race, that hectic keeping up with the Jonses thing in the states
2) If you are flexible, intelligent, decent folks
3) If you want more than Jimmy B's "Margaritaville" lifestyle
4) If you have children to educate and who might want to live a lot of their lives inthe States

Then, yes, you can certainly live in the DR for a lot less than US$3,000 a month.
You simply choose a town that is not on the beach.
You go about this with caution and prudence.
You find out what you like or dislike and how to avoid the negatives
You begin to network with people of similar likes and dislikes
You explore for suitable housing at affordable prices. And, yes, it can be had.
You rent for a while, learn some of the language, see the dos and don'ts..

I would not disassociate from the US, and I would maintain accounts there, like a previous poster mentioned, the internet is a Wal-Mart..

You can get a lot more answers, but foremost in your plans should be caution and patience. Nothing ever works like it is supposed to or like you want it to the first time.
You could purchase a copy of Lambada's book: Quisqueya....a good read about real life experiences.

Just be patient.

HB

I agree 100% with the wise man!

Just one point. Does it make any sense to trasladarse to an island without having a chance to swim in the ocean when feeling like?
Why to move from US at all in this case?

Life in campo is very dull and boring . Same dull and boring life and also without cold winters we can find in many countryside places in the States - Arizona, Nevada, Florida (mainland). And with better infrastructure and without the need to decently learn a foreign language (that for a person of 50 or older is impossible).

So, again only in my opinion, if to make this drastic move in life - only to a place with sun, beach, swimming and fun. And to be prepared that in places like this cost of eat-out for three is $70US and all prices are growing much faster than intererst on CD and gov bonds. Much faster.

Right, there is no "Joneses" here. BUt there are tourists here. Who constantly eat and drink at restaurants, even at overpriced. Because they are here for a week only and totaly drunk of rum, loving women and beautiful sea.
And the feeling of not being able to afford to eat out and drink out and take part in fun like them can be very depressing.
Feeling of becoming "poor" in late years of life.

Just occasional eat-outs and drink -outs for a family that lives in Sosua will accumulate $500-$800 a month EASY. I can provide my CC and bank statements as a living proof. Just one recent dinner with good friends in Pierre Georgio - $750 US.
Is everyone who is contemplating retirement to DR ready for these prices and costs?

Times of retiring to DR cheap or on moderate income- passed. They left with last Germans who left for their country six-seven years ago. If there are other old-timers in this Forum they must remember how it was then.

I remember very well. Both South coast and North coast.

 

[MikeFisher]

i wrote what i spend with my family every month. many people i know here in the bavaro/punta cana area have much less but are also able to send their kids to school and live a decent live. around 5 years back i spent just half of the money to manage life here. it depends a lot on "what means life" for the specific person. if somebody is a millionair in the US i would assume(and just assume, i don't know, because i am very far from beeing a US$ millionair) that my needed $3000.- are very far from reality for that millionair person, because of very different needs/excpectations in daily life. with my own family we eat out of the house just once, max twice a month, my car is a simple honda accord, our beach appartment is not a huge gated community.
and it makes of course a huge difference if somebody comes over to make an investment/running some business aso to make his living, or for a full retirement, menas no more work, just burning the money.
in case of the latter a million dollars can be burned in a eyeblink.
Mike

 

[bob saunders]

I agree 100% with the wise man!

Life in campo is very dull and boring . Same dull and boring life and also without cold winters we can find in many countryside places in the States - Arizona, Nevada, Florida (mainland). And with better infrastructure and without the need to decently learn a foreign language (that for a person of 50 or older is impossible).
Just occasional eat-outs and drink -outs for a family that lives in Sosua will accumulate $500-$800 a month EASY. I can provide my CC and bank statements as a living proof. Just one recent dinner with good friends in Pierre Georgio - $750 US.

Places like Santiago are not in the Campo, nor are they boring. You must remember boring is a state of mind, if you are bored, it's with yourself. If you are paying $750 US for a dinner out you are being a pendajo. I guess my tastes and needs are cheaper than yours. I only spend 2-4000 peso on a family meal out. Way cheaper away from the Tourist areas.

 

[AK74]

Places like Santiago are not in the Campo, nor are they boring. You must remember boring is a state of mind, if you are bored, it's with yourself. If you are paying $750 US for a dinner out you are being a pendajo. I guess my tastes and needs are cheaper than yours. I only spend 2-4000 peso on a family meal out. Way cheaper away from the Tourist areas.

No I am not pendajo.
And I am not paying $750 for a dinner.
I had to this time. To show my love and respect to a very dear friend from Montreal whom I did not see many years.
In the country were I luckyly was formed and brought up it is customary and natural to put on the table everything that you have in home when a good friend comes to you. Not like in USA where chips and
nuts are typically offered to guests.
Matter of self-respect.
Difference between honor and misery.

 

[MikeFisher]

1st, Santiago is for sure no countryside, it is a mayor city on the island.
2nd, i see nothing negative on a countryside or their people,
i am born and raised country myself.
3rd, i hopefully can leave my business in Punta Cana in around 5 years to the younger hands and spend most of my time on the countryside(Bayaguana, where i buy land piece by piece), coming to the 'big fency beach area' just for some beach fun weekends and when needed to take care about the business. it depends what everybody want's out of his life. in my own opinion and life experience country is far from beeing boring, cheers on the country
Mike

 

[Matilda]

In my exceedingly humble opinion the only true thing about how much you need to live on here is that you think you have enough and something nasty will come and bite you on the ass.

Such as 2 weeks in hospital due to something v unexpected - 30,000US$, a new transformer 25,000 US$ eventually (started off much less). What about if there is a hurricane, or a car crash and the insurance comapny won't pay out? Then you may need to build a new house or buy a new car.

You can be as careful as you like but these are pesky Dominican realities.

One thing is for sure - you will never get rich here. But on the other hand you will in all probability be an awful lot happier than where you came from.

Matilda

 

[Chirimoya]

Thanks Matilda for that contribution. I wish the other participants in this thread could just present their opinions and experience without having to bash each other.

If the OP hasn't been put off by all the sniping and is still reading the thread, s/he and others should have enough sense to take the wild exaggerations with a pinch of salt and extract a balanced conclusion.

 

[MikeFisher]

Matilda,
the stuff you mentioned is of course what can happen in life,
and it happens tomany people every year, hurricanes in Florida, Floodings in New Orleans, car crashs in New York City or Tornados in Kansa.
yes, the Dominican Republic has some of them, too.
but none is dominican specific related,
you should have such dangers in mind everywhere on the planet and plan for them,
including before coming to a new country to spend the rest of your life there like the OP has planned to do.
Mike

 

[Lambada]

a new transformer 25,000 US$ eventually (started off much less).

I'd just like to emphasise, for the sake of the OP if they are still around, a syndrome which whilst not unique to the DR is certainly elevated to an art form here & which Matilda has encapsulated with an admirable economy of words viz. the moving goalposts syndrome. To the OP, don't expect ballpark figures over the telephone, you will be invited to visit whichever supplier it is for a face to face encounter for a rough estimate. And when you get it, unless you get it in writing, it can change. And even if you get it in writing ...........it can change. Precision is not a Caribbean attribute; if you can live with that you'll probably do ok here. But that is one reason why you ask a simple question and you get a gazillion different answers. And parts of all of them are right.

Good luck!

 

[Matilda]

Matilda,
the stuff you mentioned is of course what can happen in life,
and it happens tomany people every year, hurricanes in Florida, Floodings in New Orleans, car crashs in New York City or Tornados in Kansa.
yes, the Dominican Republic has some of them, too.
but none is dominican specific related,
you should have such dangers in mind everywhere on the planet and plan for them,
including before coming to a new country to spend the rest of your life there like the OP has planned to do.
Mike

Of course you are right Mike. But in the country I come from (the UK) if you have an accident the health care is free. Totally. Here you can have insurance but they tend to have a maximum payout and as Lambada says Insurance companies are brilliant at moving the goalposts. Of course you can have a car accident, but if you have full insurance they pay out - here they may or they may not.

In the Uk I never had to bribe anyone to do anything and I had a tad more faith in the legal system. In the Uk there is the Criminal Injuries Compensation Board to compensate you if you are injured. Doesn't exist here.

In the Uk the electricity just seemed to work, here it has cost a lot of money to eventually get it to work including my paying for 10 lamp posts twice as the first lot were nicked, cable twice at 800 us$ a go as the first lot was nicked, and Insurance in case some dork decides to attach themselves illegally to my cable and gets fried in the process. None of this would have happened in the UK.

So all I am trying to say is that when you work out the cost of living here, you have to take these things into account. They don't happen every day but when they do you need the back up cash.

Matilda

 

[AK74]

i wrote what i spend with my family every month. many people i know here in the bavaro/punta cana area have much less but are also able to send their kids to school and live a decent live. around 5 years back i spent just half of the money to manage life here. it depends a lot on "what means life" for the specific person. if somebody is a millionair in the US i would assume(and just assume, i don't know, because i am very far from beeing a US$ millionair) that my needed $3000.- are very far from reality for that millionair person, because of very different needs/excpectations in daily life. with my own family we eat out of the house just once, max twice a month, my car is a simple honda accord, our beach appartment is not a huge gated community.
and it makes of course a huge difference if somebody comes over to make an investment/running some business aso to make his living, or for a full retirement, menas no more work, just burning the money.
in case of the latter a million dollars can be burned in a eyeblink.
Mike

"for a full retirement, menas no more work, just burning the money.
in case of the latter a million dollars can be burned in a eyeblink.
"

Exactly. You say word for word what I said. My estimate for funds needed was for FULL RETIREMENT. No more work ever. Why to fight me??!!

And in this case with the current price trend it is obvious that going to DR without at least one mil US - is a substantial risk to say the least.

The shock and frustration experienced by many people who read these lines is very understandable. To work hard all life, to spend hours every day in traffic, to go to the hated office, to see the hated boss having in mind one childhood dream only - AT THE END TO SAVE ENOUGH MONEY AND TO ENJOY THE REST OF LIFE DOING NOTHING ON A BEAUTIFUL CARIBBEAN BEACH. And instead to get this result. It hurts. It is painful.

However it is not AK74`s fault that these dreams for many are not to materialize any more. A very different person or persons did it to the national economy, family savings and jobs, housing market, value of dollar. But they are beyond reach, while AK74 is here.

AK74 himself is hit hard by the things done recently in some upper power echelons having to shuttle between two economies for another some five years instead of forgetting forever about the cage of rats running their race in it. So why to look for an enemy in your own boat?

Alot of things changed in these few past years. In our particular case - cost of the privilege to retire to DR and to live happily and richly in Paradize.

Those numerous people who return from DR to their respective countries of origine because they cannot afford DR any longer do not post on DR1 unfortunatelly. To present the complete and balance picture.

 

[sweetdbt]

"for a full retirement, menas no more work, just burning the money.
in case of the latter a million dollars can be burned in a eyeblink.
"

Exactly. You say word for word what I said. My estimate for funds needed was for FULL RETIREMENT. No more work ever. Why to fight me??!!

And in this case with the current price trend it is obvious that going to DR without at least one mil US - is a substantial risk to say the least.

The shock and frustration experienced by many people who read these lines is very understandable. To work hard all life, to spend hours every day in traffic, to go to the hated office, to see the hated boss having in mind one childhood dream only - AT THE END TO SAVE ENOUGH MONEY AND TO ENJOY THE REST OF LIFE DOING NOTHING ON A BEAUTIFUL CARIBBEAN BEACH. And instead to get this result. It hurts. It is painful.

However it is not AK74`s fault that these dreams for many are not to materialize any more. A very different person or persons did it to the national economy, family savings and jobs, housing market, value of dollar. But they are beyond reach, while AK74 is here.

AK74 himself is hit hard by the things done recently in some upper power echelons having to shuttle between two economies for another some five years instead of forgetting forever about the cage of rats running their race in it. So why to look for an enemy in your own boat?

Alot of things changed in these few past years. In our particular case - cost of the privilege to retire to DR and to live happily and richly in Paradize.

Those numerous people who return from DR to their respective countries of origine because they cannot afford DR any longer do not post on DR1 unfortunatelly. To present the complete and balance picture.

The vast majority of these people you refer to are not leaving because they cannot afford the DR. To the extent that finances are involved, they leave because they cannot afford a PARTICULAR LIFE STYLE IN A PARTICULAR PLACE they envisioned. Most have other mitigating factors as well. If you choose a realistic life style which falls within your income and make proper plans to allow for flexibility in the event of changes in the economy, you can have "full retirement" on much less than 1mil USD. You are really alone in your viewpoint on this AK74, which is nothing new.

 

[AK74]

The vast majority of these people you refer to are not leaving because they cannot afford the DR. To the extent that finances are involved, they leave because they cannot afford a PARTICULAR LIFE STYLE IN A PARTICULAR PLACE they envisioned. Most have other mitigating factors as well. If you choose a realistic life style which falls within your income and make proper plans to allow for flexibility in the event of changes in the economy, you can have "full retirement" on much less than 1mil USD. You are really alone in your viewpoint on this AK74, which is nothing new.

Not true. Not alone.

"for a full retirement, menas no more work, just burning the money.
in case of the latter a million dollars can be burned in a eyeblink.
"
- these are not MY words but by MFisher.

Another British woman as well clearly showed what most likely will happen to a gringo in DR in case of a serious illness, or car accident, or natural calamity, or major break down like planta or else - EACH of these problems (very possible in a thirty years life span that we are talking about as "retirement") will cost a gringo dozens of thousands of USD, if not hundreds of thousands.

You might be willing to re-read HER post. A very experienced smart and intelligent expat who knows first hand what she says.

In case of a car accident alone, if other involved party is a well connected Dominican person you will pay for your own car, for his car and for medical bills/suffering of everyone in his car. Even if he was 100% at fault of the accident.
You do not know it? I cannot believe!!! You are DR1 GOLD member. And this is fundamentals.

The thing is that the vast majority of DR1 posters - are successful, happy, well-off people. Mostly successful business owners. Who can spend days in front of computers killing time. For this reason when something negative or realistic is said - it is very unpopular here and irritates those happy and well established in life people.

Those who fight for everyday survival and who are leaving DR having lost all their life savings- do not post here. Most of them have no access to computer at will , or time for it or just energy after a day of hard work or emotional courage to admit their Dominican failure.

I am aware that there are many people who live in DR now and arrived here with MUCH less than 1 mil USD. But they arrived here at the time of cheap "German" prices. Not the current skyrocket "American" ones.
Very different times, economic realities and hense - different requirements to be allowed and accepted to the idealistic paradise.

 

[MikeFisher]

that i wrote "even a million bucks can be burned in an eyeblink" is faaar from an agreement of your points AK74.
i saw many come and go, they brought good many, much more than i ever had myself, started the 'kings lifestyle' with huge beach villas, brand new big jeepetas and doing stupid investments just to show the whole world what big guys/gals they are, and they always fall mostly sooner than later. but you can prepare "a lifestyle" with much less than 1 mill $$$ even for a full retirement. like i wrote before, a expensive car accident, med costs aso can appear in each country on the planet, specially in the US when the accident-opponent is a clever car-accident- Lawyer, so in such trouble we can run everywhere.
why somebody should write about himself in the 3rd person???
i call that just"not very sane", maybe some kind of new 'puter Virus, lol.
i think you missed the whole point of the reason for this DR1 bord:
it is about questions and answers,
but in case of a prior poster it looks like all is about him,
but this thread isn't about him, it is about the OP's question
and the numerous answer the question received til a specific person highjacked the thread.
the OP seems to have plenty of resources/money to prepare and live a comfortable retirement in the Dominican Republic,
with 1 Mill US$ on his/her hands that retirement can be prepared everywhere on the Island, in Santiago, in the Capital, on the north or south coast and also on the east coast.
of course it is not enough to buy a 10 Mill$$$ Beach front Villa in Cap Cana, but the OP did not sound to me that something on that max level would be expected. he/she just asked a simple question and wanted to find out what we(the expats living since a while on the island) spend for our daily/weekly/monthly/yearly stuff to live over here.
a simple question from a person which starts his/her investigation on possibilities for a retirement on our island.
cheers from sunny skies
Mike

 

[Ricardo900]

The OP should be just fine with a 1 million, a simple jumbo CD would give him about 5% interest a year and he could probably save on taxes when the US Gov. is notified that he lives there full time. Come on guys, how many dominicans are not living middle class lives with US$50,000 a year. I don't think many americans are bringing home $50,000 after taxes. You don't need to live in casa de campo to enjoy retirement, I thought the reason that people moving to the DR is to live a more quiet and relaxed lifestyle.

 

[MikeFisher]

that's exactly it Ricardo,
it's the difference and the reaxed overall most of us been looking for, and the DR is the perfect and absolutely affordable spot for that.
Matilda,
you are completely right on that differences compared to the europeanUK, i am born in germany, and of course to have i.e. a full insurance on a new car there means that you are covered fully in any accident, with the exceptions in case you have an accident under the influence of alcohol, driving with an expired license or such. the rules over here on the island are in most things more orientated on the US market/stuff, for us europeans many things look very strange.
i spent many years in the US and worked a big part with US forces and others,
the first strange thing been "the boys and gals are approved responsible enough to drive a car by the age of 16, they been sent in wars all over the world by the age of 18, but the gov does not approve them sufficient responsible to handle a beer or dance in a nightclub before the age of 21.
the different continents have very different behaviors/laws/rules on many things, and i don't mean to offend none of them, because none of them runs the perfect system. the point is that the first part before moving to a completely new surrounding is to understand the 'differences' in the handling of the daily happening stuff.
during the prior posts i did not realize that you are european, sorry, my answer been focused on differences to the northamerican area, and many of the dominican laws/rules lean towards the ones from over there, of course not the same, but similar, at least they often try to be 'american' in many things.
i just hope we get burger kings or mc donalds on the country side, ha ha
have fun around here
Mike

 

[AK74]

The OP should be just fine with a 1 million, a simple jumbo CD would give him about 5% interest a year and he could probably save on taxes when the US Gov. is notified that he lives there full time. Come on guys, how many dominicans are not living middle class lives with US$50,000 a year. I don't think many americans are bringing home $50,000 after taxes. You don't need to live in casa de campo to enjoy retirement, I thought the reason that people moving to the DR is to live a more quiet and relaxed lifestyle.

A very informative post. Thank you.

Not being an expert in tax matters I have one question though. In DR taxes do not exist yet? Or expats are tax exempt?
A person with dual US/Dominican citizenship is not required by law to pay taxes on his $50K interest gain neither in DR nor in USA?

A nobody will nock on your door in 2018 saying - " You owe us a little, senor" ?

Very interesting.

US Senate examines tax evasion involving Swiss, Liechtenstein banks


http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/27/business/worldbusiness/27tax.html


Publication 54 (2007), Tax Guide for U.S. Citizens and Resident Aliens Abroad

***************************************

"A government big enough to give you everything you want,
is big enough to take away everything you have." - Thomas Jefferson

****************************************

Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone, and you
may cherish the sweetest reflection that your vote is never lost.?
~ John Quincy Adams~ (1767 - 1848)

 

[bob saunders]

In my case - Soon to retire from Canadian Military - pension to be approx 64% of best five - taxed by the Canadian government at 25%, but if living in the DR, not taxed by the DR Government( NO TAXES ON FOREIGN PENSIONS). The Canadian government will now reduce taxes to 18% because I am no longer a resident. I can collect Canada pension at age 60 - reduced rate- again taxed by Canadian government - no taxes by DR Government. This all to say I'll have a pension income after taxes of around 50K. As my wife plans for me to work in the DR, note I said she plans, in an existing family business, that should fully support a reasonable lifestyle without my pension income I think that unless I have both extremely bad planning and bad luck We should live even better than we currently live in Canada.
AK74- Yes you have to pay taxes in the DR on income derived from investments outside the country, but not on government pensions.

 

[AK74]

In my case - Soon to retire from Canadian Military - pension to be approx 64% of best five - taxed by the Canadian government at 25%, but if living in the DR, not taxed by the DR Government( NO TAXES ON FOREIGN PENSIONS). The Canadian government will now reduce taxes to 18% because I am no longer a resident. I can collect Canada pension at age 60 - reduced rate- again taxed by Canadian government - no taxes by DR Government. This all to say I'll have a pension income after taxes of around 50K. As my wife plans for me to work in the DR, note I said she plans, in an existing family business, that should fully support a reasonable lifestyle without my pension income I think that unless I have both extremely bad planning and bad luck We should live even better than we currently live in Canada.
AK74- Yes you have to pay taxes in the DR on income derived from investments outside the country, but not on government pensions.

Thank you for an intelligent, civilized, first-world answer. Especially a very important part on govt pensions. I hope US legislation in this respect is similar to Canadien.

One concern only. How do you envisage the effects of Amero and NAU that will happen sooner than later.
In Europe the Euro monetary reform caused decreasing purchasing power of population in some cases by 50% !! as I know from my friends in Italy and Germany.

How it will affect government pensioneers, if you ever thought about it?