Since we are on the subject and to be honest, as I always strive to be, I've only heard good things from fellow Cubans regarding the DR or Dominicans. In fact, I became interested in this website after hearing from many Cubans who had visited DR and they loved it. Of course, I realize they went there as tourists, but did love the place and in particular how polite, sociable and kind the Domincans they came into contact with were. In addition, they saw a lot of beauty in the countryside and beaches which strongly reminded them of Cuba. On the other hand, I have heard very pre-conceived, biased opinions from some US Dominicans regarding Cubans. However, those are minor and incosequential compared to the sometimes outrageous rivalry and name calling I have witnessed between Dominicans and Puerto Ricans. Just my humble opinion, my observations. Cubans who have lived or visited Puerto Rico are also very fond of it.
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Cuba And DR, More Alike Than Different!
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FuegoAzul21 said:
Are you out of your goddamned mind!?!!??!?!?!??!?
First of all the sanctions thing is bullshit, cuba can still trade with practically every other nation on the planet. Last I checked china is also a communist country and has more factories, farmland, and such than the entire united states in which cuba can trade with and has no sanctions. Hell, half the crap you find in the u.s. is made in china.... If anything they would find solidarity with cuba because they are both communist countries
now...... let me tell you the story of my family, my family was never rich in cuba and neither were the families of most of the people in hudson county. Belive it or not when most of the cubans immigrated to hudson county they immegrated here because this was cheaper than miami or nyc. This actually used to be a pretty cheap place to live unlike it is now where a house in the ghetto costs like 1/4th mil $US, but anyways......
My grandfather was an electrician for a sugar plant. He was no rich person whatsoever. When things went downhill, most of my family was smart enough to get the hell out of cuba except for my uncle. My uncle is still over there right now and regrets staying there every single day of his life. Eventually someday I'm going to be able to get him out of there, but for right now things are FUCKED. My uncle has been there since the pre batista years and can tell you that it was better for EVERYBODY when batista was still around. They are still freaking rationing food in cuba. WHAT OTHER COUNTRY ON THE PLANET RATIONS FOOD? IT'S 2004 THERE'S NO FREAKING NEED TO~!. Dont you DARE say becuase of the economic bloc either because there's sure as hell enough food to go around if you're at a tourist resort in varadero. They're not allowed to buy food even if I went over there (through canada) and gave them the money personally. Varadero is offlimits to cubans.
You can belive all the bullshit you want but I can tell you based on the fact that I still call family over there. Rich or poor has nothing to do with it, everybody over there is practically starving except for those who are 100% suckups and brainwashed by the communist party and even they have to do things on the black market to survive.
Communism doesnt make things better for anybody. Sure you could say it makes things equal except the thing that you're missing is that by equal it means everybody is miserable.
As far as free education and free medicine that's all bullshit, I've had friends who have been to cuba nad have had family who havent even been able to get access to friggen aspirin yet they as american tourists can buy aspirin which is well stocked at any tourist store, wtf is up with that? If things are so wonderful over there then why the hell are both mulatos and white cubans so desperate that they risk thier lives in shark infested waters to get to miami in makeshift rafts made out of garbage bags and crap like that?
what good is free education and medicine if there is no medicine and the doctors have to become taxi drivers to survive?
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truth
After reading some of the posts I relized that I had to make a comment regarding Cuba. First, the situation of many of the Cuban-Americans. It is a fact that prior to Fidel Castro installing a communistic government that the majority of CUbans that left the island were those that were white. Whites were the ones that were part of the burgeiosie that lost their lands, companies, and could lose their wealth to the communistic government and that had the money to leave. Blacks in Cuba were discriminated against and the poorest in the country under the capitalistic corrupted government of Batista. Blacks in Cuba remain proportional poorer than those whites still on the island because they dont have the family members in the U.S. to send them U.S. currency. Lets face it, the U.S. is the most powerful wealthiest nation in the world. The Cuban peso is worthless to the U.S. dollar, mostly because of the U.S. trade embargo that limits trading between Cuba and the U.S. and any of its allies. Therefore, this situation causes a problem when looking at Blacks and Whites in Cuba. You have one group armed with the powerful U.S. dollar and one without it.
Secondly, the African influence or peoples were not minimal or small in any part of Latin America. The majority of slaves were taken to Latin America, not the U.S. Cuba being a sugar colony, was a major slave destination. The indigenous people were killed so fast the the impact of any indigenous culture is minimal, if any. The African and Hispanic(Spanish) elements is what brought forth the Cuban Culture. Cuban Spanish, like that of Domincans, is very diffrent than Spanish spoken in Latin Countries with small African influence like Northern Mexico. Many of the words are pronounced doffrently because of the strong African influence on the language that came about from slaves from Africa learning spanish. For example, many CUbans and Dominicans do not pronounce the letter s because there is no s in the Western African languages. As of today it is estimated that there are at the minimum 3.5 millions blacks living in Cuba.
Many of the blacks in Cuba today are better off, however. With more professional blacks having doctorates than blacks in the U.S. and a lower infant mortality rate and aids cases, Cuba and Fidel have definently included blacks in its regime. But that doesnt mean there are not problems and/or discriminations against blacks.
After reading some of the posts I relized that I had to make a comment regarding Cuba. First, the situation of many of the Cuban-Americans. It is a fact that prior to Fidel Castro installing a communistic government that the majority of CUbans that left the island were those that were white. Whites were the ones that were part of the burgeiosie that lost their lands, companies, and could lose their wealth to the communistic government and that had the money to leave. Blacks in Cuba were discriminated against and the poorest in the country under the capitalistic corrupted government of Batista. Blacks in Cuba remain proportional poorer than those whites still on the island because they dont have the family members in the U.S. to send them U.S. currency. Lets face it, the U.S. is the most powerful wealthiest nation in the world. The Cuban peso is worthless to the U.S. dollar, mostly because of the U.S. trade embargo that limits trading between Cuba and the U.S. and any of its allies. Therefore, this situation causes a problem when looking at Blacks and Whites in Cuba. You have one group armed with the powerful U.S. dollar and one without it.
Secondly, the African influence or peoples were not minimal or small in any part of Latin America. The majority of slaves were taken to Latin America, not the U.S. Cuba being a sugar colony, was a major slave destination. The indigenous people were killed so fast the the impact of any indigenous culture is minimal, if any. The African and Hispanic(Spanish) elements is what brought forth the Cuban Culture. Cuban Spanish, like that of Domincans, is very diffrent than Spanish spoken in Latin Countries with small African influence like Northern Mexico. Many of the words are pronounced doffrently because of the strong African influence on the language that came about from slaves from Africa learning spanish. For example, many CUbans and Dominicans do not pronounce the letter s because there is no s in the Western African languages. As of today it is estimated that there are at the minimum 3.5 millions blacks living in Cuba.
Many of the blacks in Cuba today are better off, however. With more professional blacks having doctorates than blacks in the U.S. and a lower infant mortality rate and aids cases, Cuba and Fidel have definently included blacks in its regime. But that doesnt mean there are not problems and/or discriminations against blacks.
The way Cubans pronounce the letter S is the same way Andalucians in Spain pronounce it. It's the same way Argentinians pronounce it, and there are almost no blacks left in Argentina today. Many other Latin Americans pronounce the S the same way- it sounds like an aspired H. That comes from southern Spain, not Africa. Early settlers in Cuba came from that part of Spain. Still, there's no denying that African slaves did influence Caribbean Spanish in general, from Cuba to Venezuela, and because of large numbers brought to Cuba, culture as well. I can only compare it to Brazil, particularly the religious syncretism popular in both countries.
Blacks' role in today's Cuba remains marginal. It's not only the fact that most Cubans who left were white( although not rich, rich peope were only a few thousand at the most) and therefore, receive less US$, but the fact that there is widespread discrimination against them, particularly in the tourist sector, where it matters the most. Neither are they represented in really important positions. As far as having a lower infant mortality or being better off than American blacks, no way is that true. Blacks in Cuba were better off than blacks in the rest of Latin America, in spite of prejudice and some forms fo discrimination. In fact, Cubans in general, were better off in almost all aspects than the rest of Latin Americans. Castro's revolution, before taking power, was never a poor people's revolt. It was a revolution of the middle and upper middle classes, a revolution of basically white Cubans whose stated goal was to get rid of Batista, put an end to political corruption and dictatorships and return Cuba's 1940's Constitution's full force. It was, if anything, what communists called a nationalistic bourgeoise revolution. Then, slowly but surely, after securing power, he took a different and unexpected course. I am aware that there is a lot of ignorance, myths and pro Castro propaganda in certain US sectors. People are hard headed and myths die hard. Blacks are even more oppressed in Cuba today than other Cubans. If white Cubans are treated as second class citizens, blacks are third and forth class citizens.
I am not going to write the whole Cuban history here, I am Cuban and I know what went on and is going on in my country today better than any foreigner.
Castro's represive economic measures contribute to the people's increasing poverty. Forty six years of the of a one man, impoverished police state is Enough! Even nature is telling Castro he should turn power to the people, begin the process of change. He fell down and fractured one of his knees and injured a shoulder. Two years ago he fainted. I guess the third time will be the charm. I hope it happens in front of cameras so that everyone will see it!
Blacks' role in today's Cuba remains marginal. It's not only the fact that most Cubans who left were white( although not rich, rich peope were only a few thousand at the most) and therefore, receive less US$, but the fact that there is widespread discrimination against them, particularly in the tourist sector, where it matters the most. Neither are they represented in really important positions. As far as having a lower infant mortality or being better off than American blacks, no way is that true. Blacks in Cuba were better off than blacks in the rest of Latin America, in spite of prejudice and some forms fo discrimination. In fact, Cubans in general, were better off in almost all aspects than the rest of Latin Americans. Castro's revolution, before taking power, was never a poor people's revolt. It was a revolution of the middle and upper middle classes, a revolution of basically white Cubans whose stated goal was to get rid of Batista, put an end to political corruption and dictatorships and return Cuba's 1940's Constitution's full force. It was, if anything, what communists called a nationalistic bourgeoise revolution. Then, slowly but surely, after securing power, he took a different and unexpected course. I am aware that there is a lot of ignorance, myths and pro Castro propaganda in certain US sectors. People are hard headed and myths die hard. Blacks are even more oppressed in Cuba today than other Cubans. If white Cubans are treated as second class citizens, blacks are third and forth class citizens.
I am not going to write the whole Cuban history here, I am Cuban and I know what went on and is going on in my country today better than any foreigner.
Castro's represive economic measures contribute to the people's increasing poverty. Forty six years of the of a one man, impoverished police state is Enough! Even nature is telling Castro he should turn power to the people, begin the process of change. He fell down and fractured one of his knees and injured a shoulder. Two years ago he fainted. I guess the third time will be the charm. I hope it happens in front of cameras so that everyone will see it!
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The way Cubans pronounce the letter S is the same way Andalucians in Spain pronounce it. It's the same way Argentinians pronounce it, and there are almost no blacks left in Argentina today. Many other Latin Americans pronounce the S the same way- it sounds like an aspired H. That comes from southern Spain, not Africa.
Most Cubans and Dominicans dont pronounce the s at all when it comes at the end of words......As far as Spain goes , particularly Southern Spain....it was invaded by Black African Muslims(Moors) in which many African words like alhambra and others affected the Spanish language.
Most Cubans and Dominicans dont pronounce the s at all when it comes at the end of words......As far as Spain goes , particularly Southern Spain....it was invaded by Black African Muslims(Moors) in which many African words like alhambra and others affected the Spanish language.
I am not going to write the whole Cuban history here, I am Cuban and I know what went on and is going on in my country today better than any foreigner
yeah.....u think u know......but dont make quick assumptions
yeah.....u think u know......but dont make quick assumptions
I was in Cuba 2 months ago.
There is absolutely NOTHING Cuba and the DR have in Common other than Language!
There is absolutely NOTHING Cuba and the DR have in Common other than Language!
The vast majority
of the people in the country do not pronounce the (s) in a lot of their words regardless wheather it is in the middle or at the end of the word. The best examples that I can think of is
do instead of dos
tre instead of tres
sei instead of seis
nosotro instead of nosotros
moquito instead of mosquito
moca instead of mosca
mimo instead of mismo
moquitero instead of mosquitero
Also the vast majority also fail to conjugate the verb correctly when using the pronoun t?. They conjugate their verbs without the (s).
Sorry this is off topic as I have never been to Cuba but this is just something that irkes me as it is done by the teachers in elementary school also and they are the ones teaching the future generations. Put in your mind the idea that an American teachers teaches the children to say, We the peoples of the USA.
of the people in the country do not pronounce the (s) in a lot of their words regardless wheather it is in the middle or at the end of the word. The best examples that I can think of is
do instead of dos
tre instead of tres
sei instead of seis
nosotro instead of nosotros
moquito instead of mosquito
moca instead of mosca
mimo instead of mismo
moquitero instead of mosquitero
Also the vast majority also fail to conjugate the verb correctly when using the pronoun t?. They conjugate their verbs without the (s).
Sorry this is off topic as I have never been to Cuba but this is just something that irkes me as it is done by the teachers in elementary school also and they are the ones teaching the future generations. Put in your mind the idea that an American teachers teaches the children to say, We the peoples of the USA.
Escott said:
Would you care to give us some examples of the differences when comparing the two as well as some anecdotes from your Cuban tour? Which city did you like the best, or the least. Did you go to the countryside as well? Overall, did you have a good time?
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The fact that DR is not unified with Cuba is not what is keeping DR from progressing. By unifying Cuba and DR, it is true that you will have a larger population, but it would be a poorer unified population population filled with larger government corruption, which is something that would hurt any country unified or not.Nal0whs said:
You have these good dreams but you dont have nothing until you are able to stop corruption.
I went to Havana ONLY. You can spend a month there and not see everything. Bought a driver in a 50 Pontiac for 4 days and he wouldn't speak to us until the 3rd day because one friend was Dominican and he was scared he was Cuban Secret Police or what ever they call those guys.juancarlos said:
People were waiting outside the restaurant with a sheet of Newspaper for my scraps to be put in the middle of their sheet. They were lined up. There hasn't been a dime put into the city for 50 years and it must have been the nicest city in the world when you look through the decay. I went to the National Ballet which was awesome and as good as any Ballet in NY.
Only money spent on anything visable has to do with "Revolution". People are hungry, people are scared and they are NOT happy. No wonder they risk their lives going to Miami.
Communists live in the ONLY hi-rises in Havana and those are in good shape. All the other buildings are crumbling.
I was glad I went and won't go back till Castro is dead and they treat their people like human beings.
Hope that answers your questions.
Scott
Escott said:
Good, Escott, your description was true to reality. You are a good observer. Unfortunately, that's the way things are in Cuba today. It's true what you say about Havana. What a beautiful city it was, and, in a way, still is. It's a shame and a crime it has been allowed to decay this way. True about the National Ballet, one of the good things there.
The people aren't starving and the situation that many Cubans live in is only relative. If u look at the U.S., the richest nation in the country, and go to any major city you will see similar problems. Poverty is universal, and so is the struggle. There are people in all of the U.S. that suffer from violence, drugs, and poverty just like that of Cubans. And guess what, the majority of those sufering in the U.S. are black or some kind of foreigner. So when those who are against Fidel Castro think that if his regime is once gone that some kind of fairy tale reality would happen for all of Cuba, they are wrong!!!! Sure, I agree that Cuba has its problems, like any country does, including the U.S. Whether the country is Democratic, Communist, Socialist, or whatver really does not eradicate all problems. For the most part most Cubans have the necessities of life....Like I said earlier, the infant mortality rate in Cuba is lower than that of the U.S. The country is a major medical center, that deploys medical professionals to other countries like Venezuela. And additionally, Cuba was much more able to withstand the destruction causd by the hurricanes than other caribbean countries, due to its advanced infrastructure. I my opinion, Cuba has great improvements to make, but I believe that Fidel Castro is trying to better the country and take it into the future the best way he can despite the current trading embargos.Escott said:
You are right,juancarlos said:
Dominicans and Puerto Ricans don't get along but Dominicans have nothing to do with this. Most Puerto Ricans have beef with just about every country that represents a majority competetion to them. In New York, FL and Puerto Rico they hate Cubans and Dominicans, and in Chicago and Army wide they hate the mexicans. They always want to be the majority everywhere they are.
They want to be the only Roosters on the block.
To say that the Cubans aren't starving is a crock. They are lined up at restaurants to get the scraps people leave over. The stores are empty and you can't buy a damn thing with their money. If you don't have US dollars you can't buy a thing.ThoughtProcess said:
Sure they put out a lot of Doctors. These same Doctors if they are women prostitute themselves to make ends meet. They are able to withstand after a hurricane. The US gave them help after the last one and Castro took it and because they have nothing and a little less doesn't mean all that much.
The only ones with a good life in Cuba are the Communists. They live in modern high rise buildings. Castro himself owns the Hotel National which is "THE" signature hotel in Havana.
Well lets talk about the rice ration and how the people go to jail if they have more than the quota which is below what you need to sustain a human being.
We aren't talking about the United States by the way. The thread was about similarities to the DR which I said were NIL.
I am not expecting any fairy tale to happen in Cuba but I would expect that a Cuban will be able to talk to a non cuban without fear of going to jail for doing just that. Perhaps they will be able to buy rice with money earned.
Your problem is that you don't realize that communism died for a reason and that reason was that it didn't work. You quoted the infant mortality rate and I wouldnt take one thing that government said to heart including that figure because they just lie. I have nothing against Cubans. I feel sorry for the crap that they have to live through and only wish them "Freedom".
No country is perfect, so I guess we agree on one thing. Cuba is not even close to ANY country I have ever been in regarding human rights and that is a fact. Castro rules with an iron fist and people disappear there and are never heard from again. That is not a kind regime.
Scott
"The Cuban peso is worthless to the U.S. dollar, mostly because of the U.S. trade embargo that limits trading between Cuba and the U.S. and any of its allies."
The Cuban Peso is worthless to the US dollar because it aint worth the paper it is printed on. Has nothing to do with the embargo and as a matter of fact the only currency you can spend in Cuba is the US Dollar.
The Dominican Peso is worthless to us in trade as well if you didn't know that.
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You are 100% right and even Canada says it is ok to go there. I thought Canada was our closest ally.bienamor said:
If you take away the stupid unfair american embargo, the lives of the cuban folks will improve 1000%. I blame 100% american embargo for causing all the grief in cuba today. Why have an embargo in cuba when USA has full fledge business relations with china and even with soviet union in those times? all political crap to win cuban community vote in florida. Take the enbargo off and see how many prostitutes you will see in cuban streets? No one will wait in line to receive monthly ration of rice etc. Please don't even go into Human rights violations. Have you forgotten how many thousands of innocent women and children your country has killed in Vietnam, afghanistan and iraq? maybe millions if you combine them all. For what? In the name of freedom, democracy and now War on terrorism?Escott said:
Please try to fool some sosua hookers, maybe they will be able to swallow your BS. Not everyone watches and worships CNN.
AZB
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