DR should send at least a batallion to Iraq!!!

[PICHARDO]

Pichardo;

I think your summation of the "Bellle Harbor" crash is way out in left field!

In it's entire history of existence, the National Transportation Safety Board has ALWAYS rendered accurate and definitive causes/effects of ALL aircraft incidents/accidents! Believe me when I say they are COMPLETELY NON-PARTISAN (not in the political sense, but in the sense that they identify fault where-ever it may fall). Have you read the accident report of the accident you refer to?? I seriously doubt it! I think you are basing your summation on the comments of some disgruntled individuals who for some reason or another take exception to the scientific approach the NTSB used to arrive at their conclusions. I say this because I spent a year as the Flight Safety for Air Force Contract Management Division/ Air Force System Command and as such was a participant in many Accident/Incident Review Boards. I am intimately familiar with the methodology and approach that ALL Accident/Incident Boards use and know them to be interested in only ONE THING, that is the cause, and not a left field supposition!
Since NTSB Accident reports are public domain, may I suggest you call up that Accident Report on the Internet and review it. It MIGHT reveal some substance to you about the workings of the NTSB.

Texas Bill

Are you this NAIVE?
I worked for more than three years for a subcontractor who actually used high tech software to build a virtual mock up to the actual dynamics that need it to take place under even the most stringent set of aerodynamics' rules and they found that it was close to impossible to replicate or obtain the most likely scenario that the NTSB so fully pushed as the most likely candidate and precursor to the tragedy of that fly, to say I haven't taken a peek to the actual data surrounding this report by NTSB would be an "Understatement" to say the least.
Many of the senior people with most experience voiced their disagreement with the data put forth by the NTSB in their preliminary and final disclosures due to the fact that "no actual data or tangible prove" existed to make this "worst case scenarios" the likely culprit, if you happened to have some experience in this matter you'll know that this takes place via a process of elimination not by indulging into a theory based on intangible and uncorroborated data as the NTSB head honchos did cut it to be.
The computer would had made the correct adjustments and overridden the pilots input had the rudder and stabilizer been affected on an overly 70% of it's margin of safety, no data to corroborate a computer acknowledgment to this matter was ever found or left on the list as the elimination proceeded, it wasn't until after the heads of the current administration had an emergency meeting in Washington DC with the top fact finders involved in the investigation that the actual "tangible" possibility was reintroduced against most seniors analysts and investigators.
These are facts not what ifs...
By the way the company it's named ************* and they're very well known in their findings based on the best people for the job.

 

[PICHARDO]

Wow that sure was quick censoring!!!! :bandit:

 

[daddy1]

Remember members of the Royal Family actually donate money to the terror organizations.
As far as justification I can rattle all day about how the US was justified. The only thing is the justification was not what was put out in the press but that was not what this thread was about.
I just feel the DR is its own country. I feel as such any and all actions and participation should be done for their own reasons and security and not to be a mercenary force for the G-8 countries. The token forces that the DR and other countries are supplying in the Sceme of things are not that large a number but they give political support to the cause which I feel is justified. I just feel that sending a large number of troops for someplace like the DR is not in the best interest of the armed forces and the country at large.
What happens when that 100 million dollars the Osama has gets paid to some Hatians to be proxy terrorist. The DR needs to fix it country form the inside then they can help on the outside. How much money would it take to topple the government in the DR or just about any of the latin countries?
John

Awesome point of view man!! I agree 100%...

 

[Texas Bill]

My idea:

Given the current situation with Haiti and the proven ill-equipped actual Armed Forces in the DR, I think we should give an offer to the UN to send Dominican troops to Iraq under a UN mandate and fully armed and equipped with the latest war technology so they can be a force to reckon with shall the need arise there, then we will rotate the troops having the ones already deployed there come home to the DR with all their armaments and equipment just as the US and other countries armed forces do as a rule, they become a unit with their equipment be it trucks, jeeps, tanks you name it. As soon as the troops are ready to be rotated the new troops will be rearmed by the UN so they can continue their tours of duty there at the services of the UN and under it's flag, updating the DR's Armed Forces to a more real one than the Force the only represent on paper.

The UN security council will quickly vote yes on this because they all fear sending troops to Iraq under any circumstances because of the backslash of terrorism it could bring to them, we are more isolated than they are because as you may well know the security services left behind by the Trujillo regime are very good at finding out anybody quick, and since the DR has very little issues when it comes to how you beat the S**T out of somebody for info, they could find out anything developing on Dominican soil.

I know for a fact that talks are underway by Dominican reps in the UN by the request of the UN security council members to have some amount of Dominican troops deployed elsewhere under the command of the UN international peace keeping forces.

What do you think?

What you are suggesting (and I hope it is tounge-in-cheek) is that the UN foot the bill for arming the DR Armed Forces without having them turn in their equipment at the end of their tour of duty as a peacekeeping force.

That's really ridiculous!! If the UN is to arm a "security force" then allow them to keep the equipment, then it (the UN) assumes the role of "Big Brother" to the World.

Can you even imagine the countries that would suddenly become bellicose toward each other in order to get the UN to send in "peacekeeping " forces, arm those forces, settle the arguments, and retire the PK forces back to their individual borders with the modern, updated equipment provided, and then deploy additional troops under the same circumstances, providing THEM with the new, updated stuff??? No f-ing way!!! You'd have every near bankrupt 3rd-world country at each other's throats trying to get their share of the new equipment by creating artificial wars forever!

Texas Bill

 

[Criss Colon]

So this is where the "Conspiracy Theorists" hang out!!!

Do you all check under your beds before going to bed for the night?? CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC
"BOOOOOOOORING"!

 

[Texas Bill]

Are you this NAIVE?
I worked for more than three years for a subcontractor who actually used high tech software to build a virtual mock up to the actual dynamics that need it to take place under even the most stringent set of aerodynamics' rules and they found that it was close to impossible to replicate or obtain the most likely scenario that the NTSB so fully pushed as the most likely candidate and precursor to the tragedy of that fly, to say I haven't taken a peek to the actual data surrounding this report by NTSB would be an "Understatement" to say the least.
Many of the senior people with most experience voiced their disagreement with the data put forth by the NTSB in their preliminary and final disclosures due to the fact that "no actual data or tangible prove" existed to make this "worst case scenarios" the likely culprit, if you happened to have some experience in this matter you'll know that this takes place via a process of elimination not by indulging into a theory based on intangible and uncorroborated data as the NTSB head honchos did cut it to be.
The computer would had made the correct adjustments and overridden the pilots input had the rudder and stabilizer been affected on an overly 70% of it's margin of safety, no data to corroborate a computer acknowledgment to this matter was ever found or left on the list as the elimination proceeded, it wasn't until after the heads of the current administration had an emergency meeting in Washington DC with the top fact finders involved in the investigation that the actual "tangible" possibility was reintroduced against most seniors analysts and investigators.
These are facts not what ifs...
By the way the company it's named ************* and they're very well known in their findings based on the best people for the job.

Pichardo!

Damn it, I really don't think my comments can be construed as being Naive!!
They, like your's were and are, based on personal experience and over 50 years exposure in the aviation field!
Are you so narrowly focused that you couldn't take my comments in the way they were intended and as an explanation of how the NTSB functions??
Again, you are making accusations for which there is no basis. In that I am refering to the "NAIVE" remark you made.
You obviously base many of your remarks on your personal observations and exposures. Can't you understand that others do the same???
Can you understand that my comments are based on many hours of reading through accident/incident reports, sitting on accident/incident boards, having an intimate working knowledge of the procedural process whereby conclusions are arrived at? And you call that "NAIVE"
To begin with, you DID NOT qualify your original statement about the accident in question. You made an all inclusive allegation, inferring that the NTSB was politically motivated to render an inaccurate finding. You implied a cover-up without qualifying the opposing findings of another investigative organization.
I THINK I know of the organization to which you refer. They have many very qualified specialists at their disposal. They use the same methodology as does the NTSB. However, the findings of the NTSB are the ones that carry the weight under our system. Any differences may be argued til hell freezes over, but the NTSB reports are the final word.
What you have really argued, and I might add, is that you take exception to the NTSB findings. That is your prerogative, but not the final, nor the accepted actuality of the accident.
I still don't call that "NAIVE"!

Texas Bill

 

[jsizemore]

american tattlers

For all of you that have these thoughts of American cover ups I want you to think of my opinion and I think almost anyone that post to this board with any experiance in the American Military or the American government will agree.
While I do agree that it is possable for the American government to try to do coverups in the case of the downed jetliner and so forth I do not feel they could ever get by with it. Americans will rat out the governement so fast it will make your head spin. Anyone truly in the know has enough of an ax to grind at any given time to bllow the whistle when they can.
It is what keeps the US government from suceeding as much as everyone thinks they do. The average American does not fear whistle blowing. So to think the NTSB could get the hundreds of emloyees that have info to keep closed lips is Nieve.
John

 

[Chirimoya]

From the lead story on the BBC news site tonight:

Coalition shrinks further

The Dominican Republic has announced it will withdraw its 302 troops from Iraq within a matter of days.

"The armed forces' troops in Iraq will leave in a few days, in the next week," said its Defence Secretary Jose Miguel Soto Jimenez after talks with President Hipolito Mejia in Santo Domingo.

The Dominican troops were attached to the 1,300-strong Spanish contingent.

Chiri

 

[jsizemore]

the one year is up

The schedule for the troops to redeploy home is what was commited to in the first place. I do however feel that the DR government is useing this deadline as a way of bringing the troops home without loosing face nor backing down from a promise.
John

 

[Lambada]

Poor old Soto Jimenez

One day he's saying Dominican troops will stay in Iraq until the end of the time they are committed to, next day he's saying the President has decided they are coming out in a week or two. No wonder he looked a bit cheesed off on CDN tonight.
Does this mean that Hippo has at last done something I approve of?

 

[Chirimoya]

Only because it'll look good to welcome the troops home, having incurred zero casualties, on the eve of a Presidential election.

Chiri

 

[daddy1]

This pull-out smell's like vote's to me...

Only because it'll look good to welcome the troops home, having incurred zero casualties, on the eve of a Presidential election.

Chiri

I must admit this President is not as dumb as we taught, he is a strategists when it comes to menipulating Dominican citizen's, he is pulling out all the trick's just like a magician, trying everything to sway vote's his way, trust me there is alot more to that withdrawal of those troops then we think...

 

[jsizemore]

IMF Help

Let us not forget the IMF loans that could be bartered for redeployment. An infusion of cash just about election time.
John

 

[Texas Bill]

John:

I think you have uncovered Hippo's underlying reason for the withdrawal! Wanna bet that they send more troops after renegotiating the price US will pay for the recomittment? Honduras is in the same boat, reference the WTO agreement/negotiations. Other LA Countries will follow soon.


Texas Bill

 

[jsizemore]

dominican mercs

In my previous post I had mentioned the danger of military for hire. If the DR commits a small token force for politacal reasons of unity then cool. But if they risk the lives of there troops over IMF loans and so forth then I do not repect that decision.
I am an enlisted man and I undertsnad that sometimes we get used for pawns but I at least I am not a draftee to be used.
John

 

[Texas Bill]

John;

I don't think Hipolito really cares whether or not lives are lost or not! The Dominican Military is his pawn in the international chess game he attempts to play to further his own agenda. That is the case with all ppolitical heads of government. They have goals and agendas the constituency never even dreams of.

It may be that Leonel will send more troops after the election. Only time will tell. A great deal will depend on the status quo here and abroad in any event.

Texas Bill

 

[Lambada]

I agree, Texas Bill

Hippo's only concern is himself & his PPH buddies. If he was concerned about lives being lost, he would do something about the state of the public health sector back here.

 

[sangwong]

Get Out Of Iraq - Now

Dear Dolores,
I am not sure if this came to him in a dream .. or whether he has been watching too much TV .. but this is the BEST DECISION that Hipolito Mejia has ever made in his ENTIRE PRESIDENCY ..
Firstly, there is no reason for Dominican troops to be fighting against "enemies" that have never targeted the DR .. Iraq was never your enemy .. they NEVER demonstrated HOSTILE INTENT or attacked the DR .. DR TROOPS are in IRAQ because Mejia is trying to get favors from BUSH in Mejia's RE-ELECTION campaign .. THAT'S A SHAME .. SHAME .. SHAME .. SHAME ..
Secondly, there is no reason for Dominican troops to be fighting in a BUSH FAMILY vendetta .. his father screwed up in the Gulf War #1 .. so the SON tries to fix the problem in Gulf War #2 .. that is totally Sicilian and does not makes sense for the DR .. war should not be a MAFIA VENDETTA ..
Thirdly, there is no reason for the DR to become an instrument of the INSANE US POLICY IN THE MIDDLE EAST .. we are going there like a bunch of racist bastards linking up with ISRAEL in an effort to WIPE OUT THE ARABS .. just because we don't like their religion .. or their appearance .. or some other RACIST criterion .. very much like those of the POST COLUMBIAN CONQUISTADORS that raped and pillaged the Caribbean and South America .. that's what we have become .. the NEW CONQUISTADORS .. what a shame .. for a nation that is so "ADVANCED" like the UNITED STATES .. ESTADOS UNIDSO .. WHATEVER ... SHAME .. SHAME .. SHAME ..
I am ASHAMED to say this .. but this decision alone .. is enough for me to PRAISE THE DOMINICAN PRESIDENT .. for the first time in many years .. he has demonstrated that he has both the BRAINS and the GUTS to stand up to GEORGE BUSH ..

Yours Truly,


Sang Wong, FT Lauderdale, FL

--------------------------------------------------
Dominican troops coming home soon
Following the lead of Spain and Honduras, General Lieutenant Jose Miguel Soto Jimenez announced yesterday that the troops would be home in two weeks, or as soon as the logistics can be implemented to remove them from Iraq. Hoy newspaper quotes Soto Jimenez as saying that President Mejia?s wishes are the same as the army?s ? to have them home as quickly as possible. Honduras, too, is moving to hasten the return of their troops. The DR presently has 302 troops deployed in Iraq and Honduras has 369.
Meanwhile, in Washington, DC, the White House press secretary, Scott McClellan, said yesterday that the US deeply regrets the withdrawal of Dominican and Honduran troops from Iraq, according to El Caribe. McClellan said the situation has reached a crucial juncture as the coalition tries to restore democracy to Iraq and the enemies of that state try to destroy it. He said the coalition would remain strong in its determination and efforts without the Dominican and Honduran support.

 

[Texas Bill]

Dear Dolores,
I am not sure if this came to him in a dream .. or whether he has been watching too much TV .. but this is the BEST DECISION that Hipolito Mejia has ever made in his ENTIRE PRESIDENCY ..
Firstly, there is no reason for Dominican troops to be fighting against "enemies" that have never targeted the DR .. Iraq was never your enemy .. they NEVER demonstrated HOSTILE INTENT or attacked the DR .. DR TROOPS are in IRAQ because Mejia is trying to get favors from BUSH in Mejia's RE-ELECTION campaign .. THAT'S A SHAME .. SHAME .. SHAME .. SHAME ..
Secondly, there is no reason for Dominican troops to be fighting in a BUSH FAMILY vendetta .. his father screwed up in the Gulf War #1 .. so the SON tries to fix the problem in Gulf War #2 .. that is totally Sicilian and does not makes sense for the DR .. war should not be a MAFIA VENDETTA ..
Thirdly, there is no reason for the DR to become an instrument of the INSANE US POLICY IN THE MIDDLE EAST .. we are going there like a bunch of racist bastards linking up with ISRAEL in an effort to WIPE OUT THE ARABS .. just because we don't like their religion .. or their appearance .. or some other RACIST criterion .. very much like those of the POST COLUMBIAN CONQUISTADORS that raped and pillaged the Caribbean and South America .. that's what we have become .. the NEW CONQUISTADORS .. what a shame .. for a nation that is so "ADVANCED" like the UNITED STATES .. ESTADOS UNIDSO .. WHATEVER ... SHAME .. SHAME .. SHAME ..
I am ASHAMED to say this .. but this decision alone .. is enough for me to PRAISE THE DOMINICAN PRESIDENT .. for the first time in many years .. he has demonstrated that he has both the BRAINS and the GUTS to stand up to GEORGE BUSH ..

Yours Truly,


Sang Wong, FT Lauderdale, FL

--------------------------------------------------
Dominican troops coming home soon
Following the lead of Spain and Honduras, General Lieutenant Jose Miguel Soto Jimenez announced yesterday that the troops would be home in two weeks, or as soon as the logistics can be implemented to remove them from Iraq. Hoy newspaper quotes Soto Jimenez as saying that President Mejia?s wishes are the same as the army?s ? to have them home as quickly as possible. Honduras, too, is moving to hasten the return of their troops. The DR presently has 302 troops deployed in Iraq and Honduras has 369.
Meanwhile, in Washington, DC, the White House press secretary, Scott McClellan, said yesterday that the US deeply regrets the withdrawal of Dominican and Honduran troops from Iraq, according to El Caribe. McClellan said the situation has reached a crucial juncture as the coalition tries to restore democracy to Iraq and the enemies of that state try to destroy it. He said the coalition would remain strong in its determination and efforts without the Dominican and Honduran support.

Sanwong!

This post cinstitutes a douboe post of the same verbage on your part.
I'll answer you in the same way Ken did.
If you want to post sonething germain to the thread, that is all well and good. Just keep your bashing of the US and the Bush family out of it. It's NOT ON THREAD.
If you want to close this thread, then continue with your vitroilic commentary and see how fast the lock is placed on it.
We can do without comments such as yours, especially in the vien of political lambasting of SOMETHING YOU OBVIOUSLY KNOW NOTHING ABOUT.

Texas Bill

 

[jsizemore]

the one year time limit

I remember a thread in the past about whether the DR should leave the troops in Iraq for the one year commitment as promised and the Dominican Republic Army did as promised. The return of the troops after the one year deployment should be something to be proud of. It is also good to remember that they stayed the year as scheduled and simply chose not to extend and not chose to run.
If the government uses the experiance of the soldiers as a teaching tool for the other soldiers then great. I fear though that all that training and experiance will be lost.
Also what was the rank of senior officer deployed with the troops? What kind of command and control was in place? Did the troops get to comingle with other first world troops and see a less class oriented rank structure? Will those experiances be brought back home in apositive way?
Those troops will come back changed people. Regardless of the danger they were in the experiances they will bring back will change the attitude to accept certain things out of the goverment and society. If you took say 10,000 troops from the DR and place then where they would interact as peers with American, Spansih, Italian and British troops on a day to day basis what changes to the Dominican Society would be brought about.
I know from experiance that a six month deplyment for a 20 year changes you. A one year deployment rebuilds you. What would happen to the the Campos when say 1/3 of the 20 year men come home from a life changing experiance and the local politcos try pushing them around?
A young man dies in service you miss him and mourn him. A young man gets changed to the corp and he comes home you live with the changes and are affected by them.
Just food for thought.
John