Driving while Gringo (Police corruption alive and well in SD)

Status
Not open for further replies.

Garyexpat

Bronze
Sep 7, 2012
2,107
743
113
Calling your major friend as soon as things got started would have been the best plan of action in my opinion. When I first stated living here I had 2 Colonel's numbers in my cell. I called them several times when pulled over and as someone else stated they would ask me to hand the phone to the cop that stopped me. I never had to pay a dime. One time the cop wouldn't take the phone. I think he was ****ed because my Dominican girlfriend was yelling at him. I told her to shut up which seemed to please him, mentioned his name from his uniform to the colonel and when I told him the colonel was on his way he told me to leave.
Now when I get pulled over or stop at a road block I will tell whatever chick is with me to Callate!
 

affald

New member
May 17, 2004
143
0
0
Obviously, you had a Dominican gun permit right? How did you get a cedula without living here? You changed your official residency to DR even though you live in NY?
If you had a Dominican license, which I believe you are entitled to, that cop could not pull that 30 day BS.
 

wuarhat

I am a out of touch hippie.
Nov 13, 2006
1,378
89
48
I've been through this about forty or fifty times myself. I've yet to give them the first peso. You can speak Spanish to them no problem, you just have to remember the right word. It's the same in English or Spanish. No. They've never lasted more that half an hour, if they can't scare it out of you in fifteen minutes they tire of this game quickly. They've always been down to a couple of hundred pesos within ten minutes, with no negotiation effort on my part. It's just a routine that they have. Start high, go low, and move on to the next mark. The reason he told you to stop after 1000 feet is because he had no intention of ever getting to the station. I don't think I've ever heard of anyone actually making it to the station on one of these shake down rides. The only time I was ever taken to the place they said they were taking me, they never asked me for anything(AMET not PN). They took me to an impound lot for an unregistered rental, and the officer in charge called the rental company and reamed them out over the phone. Half an hour later the rental company was there with a different car. As Cdn_Gringo says in rule #1, force them to arrest you. It's not likely to happen. Keep asking: "Am I under arrest? Am I free to go?"
 
Apr 10, 2014
168
5
18
Pay back time. I think you deserve it. You belong to the most corrupt police department in the us.
Do not know where you are from but maybe you are basing everything on when you saw the movie Serpico. Times have changed over the last 50 years. Get your facts straight.
 

cobraboy

Pro-Bono Demolition Hobbyist
Jul 24, 2004
40,964
936
113
Do you have a gun permit from the DR? How did you obtain a cedula without living in the DR?

Or did you give him your US ID/drivers license & gun permit?

If you do not have a DR gun permit, how did you get the gun?
 

affald

New member
May 17, 2004
143
0
0
Is there a phone app that records and SAVES your video to the cloud, or another person if the phone is ripped from your hand mid video?
 

Cdn_Gringo

Gold
Apr 29, 2014
8,672
1,133
113
Most of the apps designed to record interactions with others support the option to save the the data to the cloud and some to post a link to the data on a social media account. Lot's of choice to choose from in the app store. A decent throughput from cell to the internet helps.
 

william webster

Platinum
Jan 16, 2009
30,247
4,330
113
You do not need to live here to get a cedula...
no need to declare any residency.

That's the beauty of the DR....no minimum stay requirement.

Just apply, get granted and you're good... driver's license, cedula, the works.

I think you need a cedula to get the carry permit
 
Apr 10, 2014
168
5
18
Do you have a gun permit from the DR? How did you obtain a cedula without living in the DR?

Or did you give him your US ID/drivers license & gun permit?

If you do not have a DR gun permit, how did you get the gun?
Got my residency 15 years ago. The process was a lot easier back then and I was also a property owner. With my residency, I was able to get my gun permit.
 

LTSteve

Gold
Jul 9, 2010
5,449
23
38
   First a little history about me. Retired Lt. NYPD with 30 years of service who has been coming to the Dominican Republic since 1988 and have an apartment on the Malecon in the Capital and visit 5-6 times a year from New York.  This morning I left my apartment in my rental SUV and was driving no more than 30 mph in the right lane when a Policia Nacional camioneta passed me and then slowed down and motioned me to pull over. Right away I knew where this was going. A Sgt. exited his vehicle and came to my drivers side window and shook my hand and proceeded to ask me for my documentations.  I presented my Cedula and my NYS drivers license at which point he noticed my gun permit. He asked me if I was carrying and I told him yes. He told me to give him my gun to which I asked why. He said just unload it and give it to him (poor tactics). I released the clip and then cleared the chamber and gave him everything. He proceeded to state I was carrying the gun illegally(gun permit was valid and not expired) but he rambled on and I knew not to escalate the situation. He stated my NYS drivers license was only valid for 30 days even though I told him I just arrived last week. He asked for my passport to prove this but I never travel within the country with my passport because I do not want it lost or stolen. He then proceeded to get in my vehicle and told me to drive with his partner following me. By the way, when he first stopped me I showed him my NYPD identification and also a courtesy card from my friend who is a Major. After about 1000 feet he told me to pull over and stated “I will help you if you help me”.  At this point with no shame he told me to give him 5000 pesos or he will take my gun and arrest me. The vein in my neck was pulsating with anger and I knew this was a no win situation. I handed over the 5000 pesos and then I told him in english “now get the f##k out of my car”. He handed me back my gun and attempted to continue the conversation as though he was my friend. I noticed the nameplate stated Beltran and I asked him his first name and he told me it was Rafael. When I went to reload my gun I was missing the round from the chamber. He had put that round in his clip while we were talking. I asked him for the round since he already got my money and he returned it with a half assed smile.  10 hours later and I am still fuming over this blatant act of corruption. I am more apprehensive and fearful of the police here than the mutts in the street. I am weighing my options because I am not going to let this rest until I bring about some type of closure. My worst mistake was speaking Spanish to him. When I have been stopped in the past I just show my drivers license and say “No Spanish”. Never had a problem. This was a 5000 peso mistake but a mistake that should never occur if the police here were honest. 

First of all you have to understand that the Sgt probably targeted you because of the rental car. They like to try to intimidate "gringos" who they figure are on vacation and don't want any hassles. If you have a Cedula, you should have a Dominican drivers license. That's a no brainer. You should probably also have a copy of your passport in the glove compartment of your rental. Once the Sgt. new you had a weapon in the car you were fair game in his eyes. You are lucky that after you payed him the 5000 pesos that he didn't just take your weapon and walk away. As I am sure you know, you are not in Kansas, or in your case, NYC anymore. This happens on a regular basis. You only have one option at this point. You can't prove this conversation every took place. Telling someone in the DR Police force will not get you very far. I would suggest that you find a "friend" in DR law enforcement and keep his cell number handy. At this point let it go and move on. Making this into a big deal could create more problems than it is worth. Yes it is not right, it is frustrating and disturbing but that is life as a "gringo" in the third world.
 

cobraboy

Pro-Bono Demolition Hobbyist
Jul 24, 2004
40,964
936
113
Got my residency 15 years ago. The process was a lot easier back then and I was also a property owner. With my residency, I was able to get my gun permit.
Tough situation. 20/20 hindsight says that IF you had all your paporers in a row requesting a trip to the PN station may have been the correct move.

I'd have babbled incoherently in English, with a smile, "No hable that Es Pan Ole." Language frustration usually works on the scam artists. They don't wanty a trip to the station any more than you do.
 
Apr 10, 2014
168
5
18
First of all you have to understand that the Sgt probably targeted you because of the rental car. They like to try to intimidate "gringos" who they figure are on vacation and don't want any hassles. If you have a Cedula, you should have a Dominican drivers license. That's a no brainer. You should probably also have a copy of your passport in the glove compartment of your rental. Once the Sgt. new you had a weapon in the car you were fair game in his eyes. You are lucky that after you payed him the 5000 pesos that he didn't just take your weapon and walk away. As I am sure you know, you are not in Kansas, or in your case, NYC anymore. This happens on a regular basis. You only have one option at this point. You can't prove this conversation every took place. Telling someone in the DR Police force will not get you very far. I would suggest that you find a "friend" in DR law enforcement and keep his cell number handy. At this point let it go and move on. Making this into a big deal could create more problems than it is worth. Yes it is not right, it is frustrating and disturbing but that is life as a "gringo" in the third world.
I understand the system down here and I am going to let it go. Pursuing this incident could lead to more problems. Life goes on and it is good. Going back to New York next week and seeing Judas Priest in concert. What more could I want.
 

Bob K

Silver
Aug 16, 2004
2,520
121
63
Good to see (not really) that after 12 years of living here..................NOTHING has changed.
Bob K
 

Cdn_Gringo

Gold
Apr 29, 2014
8,672
1,133
113
Fear and intimidation is the name of the game. The goal, is the age old Dominican desire to come out on top in a transaction. $RD 5000 is the standard denomination for firearm extortion by the police. There is room to negotiate, however, the Sgt in this case, needs to pass on the tithes to his superiors for continued protection by them. He needs to get enough to pass some to the others in his posse and to his Lt and CO. The Colonel of the detachment always gets his share and often ends up with the firearm in his desk drawer if the money was not paid immediately. Later negotiations will see the firearm returned for the full $5000 after some representative intervenes on your behalf.

You have to choose, to be a victim or not. Yes, corruption fosters uncertainty in that the person being extorted wishes to get off with the smallest payment possible and doesn't wish to escalate the situation further by being detained. The latter almost never happens and if it does, it is a short term measure to make one final attempt to get the victim to cough up some cash. If you call a lawyer, the lawyer negotiates the amount while you cool your jets and shortly, an amount is reached and off you go, to collect your car, or your gun or just to run home with your tail between your legs.

When you are arrested, the paperwork has to start. There is a representative of the fiscal assigned to each police station. They count the heads of those detained and then count the number of arrest reports to make sure the numbers match. If they don't there are issues. With only an allegation of wrongdoing and no supporting evidence, the fiscal will order you released immediately upon learning of your presence. Even a trumped up charge where the PN assert that you are a terrorist will get you hearing before the fiscal in a few hours assuming it's not the middle of the night. Otherwise it will be next morning.

The PN do not want to be standing in front of the fiscal spouting a story that is unsupportable. If such a situation does play out, the fiscal tells the cops they are idiots, orders you released and your property returned. If you do nothing else, eventually everything is as it should be. If you are in a hurry, of course the PN offer a VIP service for a fee and you get your stuff back immediately as opposed to later that day or the next. Sorry the Colonel isn't here to release your pistola, come back tomorrow...

Most of the time it never goes this far but sometimes it does unfortunately. That's the game.

If you are going to pay, then get it out of the way on the spot at the first opportunity. If you choose not to be a victim, then go all in, refuse to pay, refuse to hand over your firearm, refuse to go to the police station, refuse to get out of the vehicle, take out your phone and pretend to dial a number and begin talking to your lawyer, military friend or god himself.

The extortion will end when it is clear that you cannot be persuaded to take the easy out they offer. They can't win if they arrest you, they generally don't want to cause you harm, they just want to use your fear of the process and lack of knowledge against you to obtain your agreement to conclude the extortion.

I can't say with a straight face that the PN who do this type of thing aren't stupid. But I can say, they know the limits that they can approach without crossing that will see them protected by their superiors because usually the returns outweigh the risks. No one is really prepared to put you in front of the fiscal or a judge for reasons that are not justifiable, as they will get their hands smacked.

You need to push back enough that you are no longer considered worthy of their continued attention and the situation will go away immediately, or steadfastly refuse to comply and if you do get detained and you continue to refuse to play, it'll be over in about 24 at most.

You do need to let someone know that you have been detained and having a lawyer or even a Spanish speaking friend show up at the station is usually enough to hurry the eventual resolution along.

If you give in and pay, don't be surprised if it happens again. If you push back, you won't have any further problems from that detachment again, as there are lots of other fish to introduce to the frying pan that won't flop about making things difficult. They all talk to each other and word spreads quickly that you are too big to catch with a fly rod.

Not easy for a foreigner to do the first time, but like most things, it gets easier with practice.
 

GringoRubio

Bronze
Oct 15, 2015
1,162
116
63
Your story makes me nostalgic for my first trip to the DR. I'm remember the indignation of my first shake down feeling like I've been violated. My cop even gave me a fist bump in friendship as he climbed out of the car.

I've since learned to just pretend that I have all day and look bored. They can take me to their station if they want, I don't care. Just when the cop is starting to feel that he's on the loosing end. I usually offer 500 pesos as a consolation prize claiming that it all that I have.

For whatever reason, it doesn't happen anymore. I'm not sure why exactly.
 

chico bill

Dogs Better than People
May 6, 2016
12,633
6,393
113
I've been through this about forty or fifty times myself. I've yet to give them the first peso. You can speak Spanish to them no problem, you just have to remember the right word. It's the same in English or Spanish. No. They've never lasted more that half an hour, if they can't scare it out of you in fifteen minutes they tire of this game quickly. They've always been down to a couple of hundred pesos within ten minutes, with no negotiation effort on my part. It's just a routine that they have. Start high, go low, and move on to the next mark. The reason he told you to stop after 1000 feet is because he had no intention of ever getting to the station. I don't think I've ever heard of anyone actually making it to the station on one of these shake down rides. The only time I was ever taken to the place they said they were taking me, they never asked me for anything(AMET not PN). They took me to an impound lot for an unregistered rental, and the officer in charge called the rental company and reamed them out over the phone. Half an hour later the rental company was there with a different car. As Cdn_Gringo says in rule #1, force them to arrest you. It's not likely to happen. Keep asking: "Am I under arrest? Am I free to go?"
Exactly they gamble you don't have the time to waste on going to the station. I had that same experience in San Jose, Costa Rica and I called his bluff and made him take me too the station.
Once there his supervisor tore him a new arsehole and I snatched my driver's license from his hand and stomped out. But I had a 2 mile walk back to my car.

Sent from my HTC One A9 using Tapatalk
 

the gorgon

Platinum
Sep 16, 2010
33,997
83
0
I have thought exactly the same and do not want to be a target. This cop patrols the Malecon where I have my apartment and where I do my morning 3 mile runs along the Malecon. “Accidents” can happen. And yes, I normally do not carry my gun during the day but I was on my way to Santiago to pick up my wife at the time of this incident.

you jog? along public byways? where you can be seen?

forget it. move on with your life..
 

the gorgon

Platinum
Sep 16, 2010
33,997
83
0
I understand the system down here and I am going to let it go. Pursuing this incident could lead to more problems. Life goes on and it is good. Going back to New York next week and seeing Judas Priest in concert. What more could I want.

there you go. life is good. losing it in a country miles away from home over 100 dollars is not good.

make no bones about it...these guys will get even.
 

william webster

Platinum
Jan 16, 2009
30,247
4,330
113
It's a tough call - I think

Sure pay... and drive on.

Making a bit of a fuss can have 2 results -

1/ they get angry and revengeful....
2/ you have earned respect & a free pass in the future.

As with all other RD situation....
no 'One Size Fits All' solutions...

You places your bets
You takes your chances
 

drstock

Silver
Oct 29, 2010
4,530
2,113
113
Cabarete
It seems to me there are two relatively easy things you could do which would eliminate some of these problems in the future: 1. Get a Dominican driving licence. 2. Don't carry a gun.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.