El espa?ol de Santo Domingo.

[carolinet]

I'm glad some of you liked my post.

Pib,

Sorry if I went a bit over the top in criticising Americans but I was just trying to get the point across. I assure you that I'm definitely not some kind of American-basher, so don't worry! I just got a bit carried away in trying to defend those lovely Dominicans.

Chirimoya,

Sorry for letting the cat out of the bag, but it was pretty obvious when you said you'd grown up in the south of Spain and been bilingual (English & Spanish)!! Glad you enjoyed my post. Un abrazo guapa.

 

[Red_Girl]

Maybe a little late, but...

I guess this thread has already exhausted itself, but I found it really interesting. I speak a little Spanish, but I am by no means fluent. I was confused by a lot of things when in the DR, such as "te guta?". It was neat to finally understand what a person was asking me when I figured out that Dominicans dropped some sss. Another funny one was "ta bien?". I figured that it was something like, "All good?", or generally "How's it goin?". I started saying it as well, imitate imitate! It occurred to me that the phrase was actually "Estas bien?" (Am I right on this one?). I think it's really interesting to learn different dialects and accents, particularly if you understand the differences. It can be somewhat disadvantageous if you haven't had a formal education in the language, though.

In Quebec, they speak a very different dialect of French, to the point where "joual" has become an unofficial language. ("Joual" is named for the way Quebecers pronounced the French word for horse, "cheval".) I know that the dialect developed when French settlers went to Quebec, and for many years had almost no contact with France. Many of the words are the remains of antiquated French that were no longer used in France, but lived on in Quebec because they were not up to date on the French spoken in France. Another interesting point is that France French has adopted and modified many English terms that are less cumbersome than their French counterparts, but Quebecers resist the incorporation of English into their language.

It's all neat stuff, I just wish I knew more about Spanish. Any linguistic students out there? Is the evolution of Dominican Spanish a similar story?

 

[VirginiaGomes]

This is a very old post

By I founded pretty interesting and I can't wait to show it to my hubbie when he comes back. :cheeky:

 

[NALs]

After all of this criticism of Dominican Spanish, I must point out...

that some words are still in use in the Dominican Republic. These are words that existed in Spain back in the 1400 and 1500 and through time have been lost in all spanish speaking countries (including Spain) except the DR. Some of those words are:

Asechar - To see or to look or to put attention to
No Moors (it's not as common, but still around) - means the coast is clear (it is believe that this phrase derived from the Spanish inquisition against the moorish and it has linguered in some areas of the DR).

Believe me, there are many others but I can't think of them at this moment. As they come up (usually on a daily basis as I speak spanish, but I don't notice them because I am used to using them constantly) I will try to post them here, to give many of those critics something constructive to say about Dominican Spanish.

 

[VirginiaGomes]

up! :squareeye

 

[VirginiaGomes]

up

 

[Chirimoya]

The "no Moors" expression has survived elsewhere. I heard it many times before visiting the DR.

Chiri

 

[Jane J.]

These are words that existed in Spain back in the 1400 and 1500 and through time have been lost in all spanish speaking countries (including Spain) except the DR.

What about ab?l? Is that one of them?

 

[VirginiaGomes]

What about ab?l? Is that one of them?

Abur (if that means bye) is still used by some people.

 

[Jane J.]

Thanks for the proper spelling, Virginia!

I looked it up in the dictionary and it comes from the word agur, derived from the Latin augurium.

Interesting.

 

[VirginiaGomes]

You are welcome. :glasses:

 

[carolinet]

Hola everyone!

This is a really interesting thread. Good to get other people's points of view.

Just a couple of observations:

Nal0whs:

'no moors' (no hay moros en la costa' is actually a very common expression, especially in Spain. Don't know you got the impression that it's just a Dominican thing.

Jane J:

You're right about the Latin origins of the word 'abur' (agur). However, it seems unlikely that this would be the reason for its use in Dominicana. I would imagine that the word has been handed down from Basque (region in north-eastern Spain) settlers, in the same way as Andalusian, Canarian etc. settlers influenced other aspects of Dominican speech. 'Agur' is actually the word for 'goodbye' in the Basque language, Euskera.

Keep the comments coming everyone. It makes for great reading!

 

[NALs]

What I meant was that no moors still is used in the DR, to further prove that the DR has among the purest hispanic cultures in Latin America. Only the Latin countries with the purest hispanic traditions tend to have words that are either only used in Spain or used in an old version of Spanish. These pure hispanic nations also tend to have the Peso de Oro (derives from the Spanish Peseta) as their currency, which is something very interesting. Many countries in Latin America have embraced their european and native american culture so much, that they have actually become less Hispanic and more native american in their traditions, etc. The Dominican Republic is one of the few Latin countries that have still hold on to their Spanish roots - which has been the most influencial culture in Santo Domingo, more so than any other.

 

[marymack]

In the US, the term ebonics is use by some educators to describe the deviation from standard English spoken by some African Americans, generally those in the lower, social economic group. The goal of these educators is to make that deviation exceptable to the population at large by designating it another form of language. I can't speak about the Dominican culture, but I do know that in the US individuals who have not learned to use the standard language is usually regulated to the lower levels of American society.

 

[mariaobetsanov]

Its not the accents but ussage!

The areas each have a different sound on the smotheness of coversation flow. But since different people from diffrent regions settle Latin America, each is unique. The ussage in Mexico(Mejico) is comtaninated by French/and many Indians words, and then there are the English from an laborer that returns and introduces to others.
I am a native from the Cibao, but when speaking Spanish even in my home town of Licey, they ask me from where in Spain or Argentina I am from.
Reading does wounder to improve ussage. When I first migrate to the US I learn a better ussage by reading comparative literature, while learning English I improve my Spanish. As a rule for me then was a book a day, my father use to punish me for reading under the blakets with a flashlite.
Book education can be acquire without an University. But people only value an university degree, not the common good manners of human behavior this I consider the cheapest education that I lean on my mother knees. I keep the traditions I learned as a child. The Values that were are not what our children are learning in today as acceptable.

 

[charlieblaze]

I'm probably gonna get a lot of disses for this, but I think that Dominican Spanish is not too different from Puerto Rican spanish, which has a slight connection to Cuban Spanish also. The thing is that language spoken in certain regions, (Central America, South America, etc.) differs a lil, but still has some common elements. Since the DR, Cuba, and Puerto Rica are the only Spanish speaking countries in the Caribbean, naturally our spanish is gonna be different than people in Central and South America. Pretty much, the only thing that I noticed is that Dominicans don't say "s" at the end of words and some other small stuff. In Chicago, where I'm from, the majority of latinos are Mexican, and not to insult Mexicans, their Spanish is a lot more improper than others. So all in all, if you consider "proper Spanish" to be whateva is closest to Spain, then mostly Colombians and other South Americans would beat us all.

 

[NALs]

I'm probably gonna get a lot of disses for this, but I think that Dominican Spanish is not too different from Puerto Rican spanish, which has a slight connection to Cuban Spanish also. The thing is that language spoken in certain regions, (Central America, South America, etc.) differs a lil, but still has some common elements. Since the DR, Cuba, and Puerto Rica are the only Spanish speaking countries in the Caribbean, naturally our spanish is gonna be different than people in Central and South America. Pretty much, the only thing that I noticed is that Dominicans don't say "s" at the end of words and some other small stuff. In Chicago, where I'm from, the majority of latinos are Mexican, and not to insult Mexicans, their Spanish is a lot more improper than others. So all in all, if you consider "proper Spanish" to be whateva is closest to Spain, then mostly Colombians and other South Americans would beat us all.

Of Course! Puerto Rico, Santo Domingo, and Cuba are practically the samething. We all eat the same food, speak more or less the same way, and have pretty much the same values. The only difference that is that Cuba is what PR/DR would have been if they were communist, PR is what Cuba/DR would have been if they were a dependency of the US and DR is what Cuba/PR would have been if they were independent capitalistic countries.

Remember, the Spanish Caribbean was the first and last Colonies of Spain, so of course our cultures are going to be similar among us and more connected to that of Spain than in any other Spanish speaking country in Latin America.

I won't be surprised if sometime in the far future, those three countries would merge to become one, since they are practically the samething!

 

[Hillbilly]

This is, indeed, a very good thread that has come back to life

i am surprised that none of you has mentioned the seminal studies done by Orlando Alba or Arturo Maximiliano Jim?nez on the Espa?ol de Santo Domingo".

Dominican Spanish does have a standard, and that standard can be seen and heard on the television every morning or evening on the talk shows. Educated people speak differently than the "unwashed masses", and that is just a fact of life here.

I remember one time a friend of mine brought his "girl friend" along for a little trip. She had been touted as a person working in hotelery in the Canary Islands. About thirty seconds into our first conversation I knew her "who, what and where", I just did not ask her for her "how much".. Your speech here or there tells all.

The general speech patterns of educated Dominicans is very similar to that of the people from Andalucia or the North of Argentina or parts of Colombia. There are vocabulary differences, of course, but the rythms and sentence construction are very close.

Language is wonderful, and when people like JaneJ and PIB play with it it can get hilarious....

a b c dee Goldfish?
l m n o Goldfish!
o s m r! c m p n?

HB

 

[azucarromanense]

what was the question again

Hi Everyone,

I find this thread very interesting, indeed there are a lot of topics here and different trains of thought.

My question is the following:

What was the question asked in the first place?

I'd like to add my opinion but i don't really know on which train of thought to go for.

Thanks.

 

[Forbeca]

Too much reading for you huh? Here's Pib's opening statement to her thread. I believe that s/d give you an idea of what kind of responses she is looking for, don't let all the other comments confuse you:

It is pretty common to hear non-native speakers criticize Dominican Spanish as uncultured. In my view, Dominicans are not alone in this, if you have trully mastered the little nuisances of the language, and you can figure out other accents you will see that every Spanish-speaking country has its own version of "uncultured Spanish". Educated people in all these countries tend to speak a more homogenous Spanish.

What do you say? Can we honestly say that our Spanish is any better or worse than that of rural Mexicans, uneducated Venezuelans, and Spanish gipsies? I think not. andy a seems to be ignorant of this fact, however I would like to hear other fluent Spanish-speaking posters' take on this.

I offer this to you as reference:
http://culturitalia.uibk.ac.at/hisp...20americano.htm
http://szamora.freeservers.com/zonas.htm

Hi Everyone,

I find this thread very interesting, indeed there are a lot of topics here and different trains of thought.

My question is the following:

What was the question asked in the first place?

I'd like to add my opinion but i don't really know on which train of thought to go for.

Thanks.