- Thread starter Ken
- Start date
El Toro Closed By Police
Lets be honest and don't blame the chicas for everything when...
1- high airport taxe
2- rivers used as open sewers
3- no modern A.I. built in Sosua
4- crime
5- trash everywhere
6- corruption ...in every level of government.
So closing bars and beach businesses, and arresting chicas, won't turn Sosua around unless the bigger issues are addressed first. The fact is..... Sosua can't compete as a top turist attraction because it isn't and it won't in the furure because it doesn't have the resources from government to make it happen.
I hope the owner of El Toro doesn't give up. He is a good guy, and I also enjoy have a early beer there.
Not to derail this scintillating post, but its always important to have good ID with you - your passport or cedula.
Don't leave home without it - cue Karl Malden
If checking tourists for ID, when sitting enjoying a beer becomes a routine, they can have Sosua. When all the tourists are gone, and they will not be back, for a long time, it will be even tougher for the locals to survive.
You are wrong, I get it. The government is not bothering the supermarkets, colmados, farmacias, clothing and shoe stores, etc. It is not bothering the restaurants that meet the requirements.
As far as I know, the only businesses that have a problem with the government right now are the ones that depend on prostitutes to bring customers.
The next time Olly and his team send a message to the mayor of Sosua, I hope he will ask her how much of her income comes from foreign aid.
Perhaps Olly & The Team can ask Miss Mayor how much extra income she finds in her envelope from D'Latin Drink, come on Ken. Do you really think she would have been elected without her sidekick?
It is a shame what was done to that property, that should have been left a landmark, yeah right!
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It's ironic how people complain that laws don't get enforced here and then when some do get enforced people cry out corruption. The law is the law and it was clearly broken in this case. Even if it was a setup, which there is no evidence that it was. That would be called a "sting" in other countries and it is how law enforcement ensures you are able to follow the rules. Bar stings do occasionally happen outside of the corrupt DR in our own first-world countries though to a less degree because many of the bars outside of the DR do a good job of keeping minors out on their own.
Cracking down on prostitution is going to be a bigger short-term impact than I believe many think and I really don't believe the long-term goals will get fulfilled. If I really thought the long-term goals would be fulfilled and Sosua would one day be a much better place to live I'd be all for it, but I can't support it believing that the future isn't going to be any better. But that is not what this is about. This was about minors in a bar.
The law is minors are not supposed to be in bars and that is a pretty serious law so I'm glad they are spending some time on it. D'Latin is an open bar but has security at every entrance and I have seen them check IDs before. They don't check everybody but if they think you look young I guess they do. Rumba sometimes has security at the entrances and I have seen them check an ID a couple of times. El Flow has security at the entrance and I have seen them check IDs sometimes.
Its part of running a bar. You have to be responsible to make sure you are following the laws, especially this law. El Toro had no security watching the entrances that I could tell. I've never seen them check any girl's ID before she entered. That doesn't mean it never happened, I'm just saying I never saw it there and never even saw anyone that would even be responsible for doing it there.
Cracking down on prostitution is going to be a bigger short-term impact than I believe many think and I really don't believe the long-term goals will get fulfilled. If I really thought the long-term goals would be fulfilled and Sosua would one day be a much better place to live I'd be all for it, but I can't support it believing that the future isn't going to be any better. But that is not what this is about. This was about minors in a bar.
The law is minors are not supposed to be in bars and that is a pretty serious law so I'm glad they are spending some time on it. D'Latin is an open bar but has security at every entrance and I have seen them check IDs before. They don't check everybody but if they think you look young I guess they do. Rumba sometimes has security at the entrances and I have seen them check an ID a couple of times. El Flow has security at the entrance and I have seen them check IDs sometimes.
Its part of running a bar. You have to be responsible to make sure you are following the laws, especially this law. El Toro had no security watching the entrances that I could tell. I've never seen them check any girl's ID before she entered. That doesn't mean it never happened, I'm just saying I never saw it there and never even saw anyone that would even be responsible for doing it there.
Yes, I do. She did a good job campaigning and the people of Sosua were sick of the corruption, etc. I am certain she would have defeated the former mayor.
And I don't believe the mayor is taking payoffs.
You are absolutely right. 2 serious laws are no minors and no pimping.
Bars that break either or both are being closed.
Hopefully the others are now getting the message and will be run in a more responsible manner.
Those that wanted a bar open to the street have a bigger job, but they better find some way before they, too, are closed.
Regarding the mayor of Sosua, it is worth remembering that she is PRD and Sosua went PLD except for the mayor. She is one of a very, very few PRD candidates that were elected to any office in the country.
Her election had nothing to do with what Tamborista calls her "sidekick". He, also, is PRD. To get the number of votes from PLD voters, who usually vote a straight party ticket, she needed for them to believe she would be much better for Sosua than the mayor running for reelection. The sexmongers may not think she is doing a good job, but right now the people of Sosua are pleased with what she is doing.
It is also worth nothing the the President, Minister of Tourism, National Prosecutor, etc., are PLD. But they are working with the mayor, a PRD member, to bring about change in Sosua.
Her election had nothing to do with what Tamborista calls her "sidekick". He, also, is PRD. To get the number of votes from PLD voters, who usually vote a straight party ticket, she needed for them to believe she would be much better for Sosua than the mayor running for reelection. The sexmongers may not think she is doing a good job, but right now the people of Sosua are pleased with what she is doing.
It is also worth nothing the the President, Minister of Tourism, National Prosecutor, etc., are PLD. But they are working with the mayor, a PRD member, to bring about change in Sosua.
The Dominicans I talk to are supporting the mayor.
I think there is a manufactured crisis in Sosua on DR1. I have seen, heard, or read on DR1 nothing that would indicate they are trying to close all the bars or completely eliminate prostitution in Sosua.
The bars that have been closed have been closed because of pimping or minors (which indicates lack of control by the bar owner). Not all bars are equally busy, but there are too many in Sosua. I have never understood why so many come here and open a bar or a restaurant, often in the same location where one closed for lack of business.
Bars are open, prostitutes are available. I don't expect that to change. Just not as many bars and prostitutes in the future as Sosua tries to de-emphsize sex tourism.
But DR1 is apt to over react, making a crisis where none exists except on this message board. Remember some time ago when everyone was sure the world was coming to an end because Immigration was making some changes. There were hundreds and hundreds of posts in numerous threads about tourists only being able to stay as long as the tourist visa allowed, about tourists over staying being told not to come back, about residents being kicked out and apartment owners without residency being required to get residency if they wanted to live in their property.
But now, some months later, it is obvious there was an over reaction. There have been no posts about people coming on a tourist card and spending as much time as they want being forced out or told not to come back. There have been no posts about residents being denied renewal or applicants for residency being denied. The process has been regularized, but there really hasn't been much change, except for the requirement to get a physical if you want residency, which I think is very defensible Especially when you compare what is required here to what is required in the US.
I have long felt that it might be better if people didn't read this message board. All too often what they get here is bar talk, the kinds of things people say when they sit in a bar talking about how bad things are here and how clueless are the local and national officials.
So why do you still read daily and post often?
You have gotten as much excellent and informative info from this board as anyone over the years, but you think your above that for some reason?
Instead of moaning and whining, why don't you work (detailed, fact based posts) to change what you consider the "reality" of this message board.
I think it depends who you are talking to about what she is doing. My friends tend to be in the bar/restaurant circle...these people are scared to death about what is happening...there is real concern about the declining numbers in the clientele. The word is there was something very fishy about the closing of el toro.......(here I go with the bar talk!)
Here is the other thing, no one trusts the government to do the right thing. There is always this feeling that someone is lining their pockets or helping friends to line theirs. I wonder why people feel this way? LOL
I agree 100% about message boards in general...they contain people who are sitting at home, reading about something and panicking about how this will affect there next trip. Then there are the $hit disturbers...plenty of them around...trying to get everyone excited. Bar talk in a good example.
Here is the other thing, no one trusts the government to do the right thing. There is always this feeling that someone is lining their pockets or helping friends to line theirs. I wonder why people feel this way? LOL
I agree 100% about message boards in general...they contain people who are sitting at home, reading about something and panicking about how this will affect there next trip. Then there are the $hit disturbers...plenty of them around...trying to get everyone excited. Bar talk in a good example.
Whining? Moaning?
No, I am only observing. Serious over reacting occurs on DR1, but DR1 is not unique among message boards in that respect.
Has expressing an opinion that you may not like become "whining and moaning"?
I still post because even though at times I think it does more harm than good,
dr1 has something to offer and I try to provide reliable, non-hysterical information when I can.
Why do you wonder whether I am above "that", whatever "that" is. If by "that" you mean thinking the sky is falling because an acorn falls on my head, then "yes", I have enough sense to know the sky isn't falling.
With respect to trying to change things, I make every effort in my posts to try to put things in perspective, to cool down the over reaction. I am not in a position to give "detailed, fact based posts" on such subjects as Immigration reform or efforts underway in Sosua, but I can call attention to what i think is serious over reaction, with one over reactor feeding on another, even though it falls on mostly deaf ears.
I can understand being concerned about decline in clients, but that is not just in Sosua. We have had posts in other threads reporting that Cabarete has experienced the same drop.
Your friends should be able to realize that very little has changed in Sosua. The bars are open, the girls are here, the restaurants are open. If people aren't coming it is not because major changes have been made here. If friends are being told that Sosua is a disaster area and the city officials are ruining the town, even though this isn't true, this might account for a few no-shows, but those who are coming here are finding no change. I know the renters in the condo where I live who come for the night life are reporting no disappointment or concern, and they all say that they will be back.
Distrust of the government is universal.
Regarding El Toro, I know nothing about it other than minors were found and the place was closed. But I am certain that if there was security actively checking iD's that the place would still be open. There is nothing to support the claim El Toro was set up, but I don't believe police anywhere would try to set up a bar if the bar secuirity was admitting nobody without checking their ID.
As I said in a previous post, I think that what is going on is an attempt to de-emphasize sex tourism. Bar owners are going to have to operate differently than in the past, especially with respect to checking ID's, but I don't think that is an unreasonable expectation, any more than it is in the US.
I know that this will be difficult for some to understand, those that came here expecting to be able to do whatever they please, unlike in their own country, but you can hardly blame a country for enforcing its laws, especially since it has gotten so much criticism and sarcastic comment for not doing so.
It's nice to see that some folk still have faith in the truthfulness and trustworthiness of the local law enforcers and believe that they are acting purely for the public good and upholding justice without grace or favour or ulterior motive.
Bravo!
The misguided impression that this board tends to give is that Sosua is only about chicas and the pursuit thereof by immoral persons.
I'll agree that there is not much else to offer here but there are still many of us who aren't here solely for the easily available distractions of the fairer sex and there are far more non-chica establishments than chica-dedicated ones so it's hardly difficult to stay unmolested should one so wish.There are plenty of places to sit and enjoy a drink or a nice meal without the hassle of central PC.
Things are changing in Sosua but the problem is that we are not sure in which direction they are going , so people who have invested time and money are very nervous about the overall plan, if there is one.Is it worth investing a small fortune to get all the necessary permits if we are going to be shut down anyway?
Will 'they' think of something more we need to get?
If the place needs fixing up or improving, is it worth doing when the clientele is declining?
Do I apply for a late-night permit or a family-friendly permit?
There seems to be no plan on the table to promote tourism, only to reduce sex tourism and to chase out the working girls. No 'red light area', no pedestrianised PC, no parking off-street plan, no family-friendly plan etc. so far (unless I missed it).
The closing of Passions and El Toro by force, the raid on CMP, the constant visits by 'authorities' , heavily armed raid teams on the street, plus the lack of customers are all symptomatic of a malaise, but what is this disease?
This time of the year is always slow but I've never seen Sosua so dead as it is now.Even the bars with good attendance are struggling as people spend less.
Bravo!
The misguided impression that this board tends to give is that Sosua is only about chicas and the pursuit thereof by immoral persons.
I'll agree that there is not much else to offer here but there are still many of us who aren't here solely for the easily available distractions of the fairer sex and there are far more non-chica establishments than chica-dedicated ones so it's hardly difficult to stay unmolested should one so wish.There are plenty of places to sit and enjoy a drink or a nice meal without the hassle of central PC.
Things are changing in Sosua but the problem is that we are not sure in which direction they are going , so people who have invested time and money are very nervous about the overall plan, if there is one.Is it worth investing a small fortune to get all the necessary permits if we are going to be shut down anyway?
Will 'they' think of something more we need to get?
If the place needs fixing up or improving, is it worth doing when the clientele is declining?
Do I apply for a late-night permit or a family-friendly permit?
There seems to be no plan on the table to promote tourism, only to reduce sex tourism and to chase out the working girls. No 'red light area', no pedestrianised PC, no parking off-street plan, no family-friendly plan etc. so far (unless I missed it).
The closing of Passions and El Toro by force, the raid on CMP, the constant visits by 'authorities' , heavily armed raid teams on the street, plus the lack of customers are all symptomatic of a malaise, but what is this disease?
This time of the year is always slow but I've never seen Sosua so dead as it is now.Even the bars with good attendance are struggling as people spend less.