Ex-PATS & Politics

Robert

Stay Frosty!
Jan 2, 1999
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Re: EX-PATS & Politics

Texas Bill said:
;) :cool::alien:

I have a question that has been bugging me for some time.

Am I in violation of DR1 protocol if I share the DR1 Daily News Report with the Dominicans here in Manzanillo????
Texas Bill

Share the news with whoever you want, the more the better.

Rob.
 

Texas Bill

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Feb 11, 2003
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EX-PATS & Politics

;) :glasses: :cool:

Thanks Rob; I'll start manana manana with the system.
Hopefully we can open a few minds to broader horizons and the world beyound the Dominican Republic.
Also, as an aside, I have a copy of the National Geographic Magazine from the first publication through 1999 plus the National Geographic Maps on CD. Does anyone volunteer to allow me to copy same onto another set of CD's for contribution to the local school system???
I checked with NGM and they don't plan on another edition of same, nor publication in Spanish. I guess they have limited funds also.

Texas Bill
 

DCfred

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Jun 19, 2003
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I think is important that everyone who has a stake in the Dominican Republic share his/her views. Debating ideas is a good thing and reasonable people can disagree on the issues. Ultimately, eligible Dominicans will choose their next leaders. And any debate that helps people make an informed decision is a good thing, in my book. Dominicans are big boys. They don't need political correctness. They need friendship and honesty.
 

GringoCArlos

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Jan 9, 2002
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I have changed my mind, and see nothing, and say nothing. I will take care of me and mine.
 
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Texas Bill

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EX-PATS & Politics

GringoCArlos, You have the right ideas and, I believe, the insight to Dominican problems to make a difference!
What is needed, is more people like you to talk to their employees, their friends, and subtly,mind you, to highlight the inequities that Dominicans suffer because of the legacy of Trujillo and his ilk.
Keep doing what you do best!

Bueno Suerte, mi amigo !

Texas Bill
 

Escott

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Jan 14, 2002
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DCfred said:
I think is important that everyone who has a stake in the Dominican Republic share his/her views. Debating ideas is a good thing and reasonable people can disagree on the issues. Ultimately, eligible Dominicans will choose their next leaders. And any debate that helps people make an informed decision is a good thing, in my book. Dominicans are big boys. They don't need political correctness. They need friendship and honesty.
I disagree.. They don't need Friendship and Honesty. They need a kick in the ass. The scumbag politics only exist because these people elect these cabrones. They take money into the mountains and give it out every Christmas buying favor. The Dominicans vote these scumbags back into office for the money. My honesty and my friendship won't do didily to stop this practice that is accepted in the DR by Dominicans.
 

Chris

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Oct 21, 2002
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getonwithit said:
... however, what if another element is thrown into the equation? i don't know if chris has any children, but if she did would she feel she has any right to the say-so of that child's future....

My children are grown, I however do have a 2-year old granddaughter that is just the apple of my eye and the joy in my life.

But I do have 'children'. We have two businesses in the DR. Although we sell outside of the country, we are getting more and more interest and sales, inside of the country. So, yes, I have a stake - and this stake is quite large, as it is our future well-being.

It may be different if you're married to a Dominican and have smaller children and make your life here. In this position, I would also speak out, but appropriately. And also, having decided to 'adopt' the DR to live and work in, a dual citizenship thing could work well.

I think we are missing a perspective up to now. I'd like to hear what Dominicans say on the subject. Come on guys - don't hold back! - tell us what you think of these outspoken expats that insist on having their say about the politics in the DR? What is the best to do? Should we openly speak out, should we take part in the process, or what would you think is appropriate?
 

Chris

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Oct 21, 2002
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Re: I live,work,pay "LOTS" of taxes,own a home and two cars,

Criss Colon said:
am married to a Dominican,send my children to Dominican schools(after all,they ARE Dominican!) and have the right to express my feelings/opinions about life,politics and government here in the DR MORE than the Dominican Citizens living abraod!!!!

Cris Colon

Sorry for two posts in a row but I forgot about this comment - Criss, what would your reaction have been if I said this when I lived in the US. Example - I am married to an American, my two children live and go to school there, they are American, we have property and business, so I have more right to speak out than an American living abroad. Would you have bought this argument? I think not.

I'm not fighting here, (you'll anihalate me anyway with your defensas). I just think citizenship is important if one wants to take part in the political process.
 

jose?to

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Jun 19, 2002
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Chris,

Since comments on dual citizenship enrage the avatars of solipsistic righteousness, I'd say you should be able to speak out, accent or no accent.

-Jose?to
A nattering nabob of positivism
 

DCfred

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I disagree.. They don't need Friendship and Honesty. They need a kick in the ass. The scumbag politics only exist because these people elect these cabrones. They take money into the mountains and give it out every Christmas buying favor. The Dominicans vote these scumbags back into office for the money. My honesty and my friendship won't do didily to stop this practice that is accepted in the DR by Dominicans.
-----

Well, but it is their country and they can choose to elect anybody they want. I'm 1/2 Dominican and I feel that I can express my honest views without getting personal towards other DR1 members or having to be politically correct... Some people agree, some people disagree, and some of my entries here get deleted-- so much for an open forum!!!! Could it be that "Dominican" practices have seeped into DR1?
 
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XanaduRanch

*** Sin Bin ***
Sep 15, 2002
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Just Don't Whine About it Later

I agree DCFred that they certainly folks can vote in whatever idiots they want for whatever reason they want.

For me the problem comes in when later things go to hell in a handbasket and we've got demonstrations, and marches, and people burning tires in the streets because they can't afford gas, or food, or whatever. The right to vote for an idiot takes away your right to complain about it afterward. People voting ought to know and understand that their actions have consequences!*

I see a real disconnect here most of the time from one to the other. Although I must say this time after talking at length with many friends and relatives it seems to be beginning to seep through even some of the thickest skulls that this is their own fault.


*Clinton was a good example of that in the U.S. (seriously, politics aside for a minute). Before the election, before he was nominated, he was on TV apologizing for some affair with Gennifer Flowers of which he had not informed his wife and daughter and was now apologizing but saying it was "OK" because his wife had forgiven him. Fine. Me, I think, well if you can't tell you're own wife and daughter the truth why should I believe anything you say if you're elected? But people voted for him fully knowledgeable about that and said it didn't matter. Then whined all about it later. How could he BE like that. You got what you voted for folks.
 

DCfred

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For me the problem comes in when later things go to hell in a handbasket and we've got demonstrations, and marches, and people burning tires in the streets because they can't afford gas, or food, or whatever. The right to vote for an idiot takes away your right to complain about it afterward. People voting ought to know and understand that their actions have consequences
-------
That makes for an interesting question: given the number of uneducated and illiterate people in the DR, is a democracy a viable experiment there? My view is that Dominicans suffer the unfortunate legacy of colonialism. During Colonial times, the Spanish exploited and plundered the country and now we have an "elected elite" who basically does the same. It is a sad viscous cycle that will always keep the country poor. Politics in the dr is not seen as a public service, rather is a means to getting rich. The poor soul who probably meant well, Bosch, well look what happened to him. Have you ever seen a high position public servant in the DR leave office poorer? I think not.
 
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XanaduRanch

*** Sin Bin ***
Sep 15, 2002
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DCfred said:
That makes for an interesting question: given the number of uneducated and illiterate people in the DR, is a democracy a viable experiment there? My view is that Dominicans suffer the unfortunate legacy of colonialism.

I am not going to debate causes here, in this forum, but the question you posed hits the nail on the head, IMHO. I think the answer is a qualified yes. People will get mad at me for this, but I have begun to belive that the right to vote shouldn't be based on just whether you're breathing or not (Chicago area voters are excepted from this rule :: wink ::).

I have become increasingly convinced that some sort of competency test ought to be applied. Name the president, or vice president. Tell us your name and spell it correctly, etc. I don't think democracy or responsible voting is advanced if, as in the US, Alzheimer's patients are bussed to the polls to scribble an 'x' somewhere, or as here in the D.R. some poor folk from Jamao are given some zinc roofing to vote for the guys that gave it to them.

Our standards should be higher than that, otherwise they are NOT repsonsible voters. And benevolent dictatorships may be a better choice.
 

Tony C

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Jan 1, 2002
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500 years and you still blame the Spanish?
It is called Reponsibility people of the DR. Try it. It works.

In the US even the mere suggestion of a qualifing test for the right to vote is met with howls and screams of racism.

getting back to the theme of this thread.

What do you people think of foreingners giving campaign contributions in DR political campaigns? In the US it is against the law to accept foriegn Gov. campaign contributions(Unless your Bill CLinton) Is it also against the law in the DR?
In The past i have given to various campaigns in the DR. Strictly business.
I have noticed that the Campaign fundraising here in Miami for the upcomming DR elections is starting to crank up.
 

getonwithit

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Mar 17, 2003
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XanaduRanch said:
...........I think the answer is a qualified yes.........I have become increasingly convinced that some sort of competency test ought to be applied. Name the president, or vice president. Tell us your name and spell it correctly, etc.......

surely your answer to the question, "is a democracy a viable experiment there?", a definitive no.

i thought the whole idea of democracy is "one man - one vote".
if you start putting in competency tests that principle goes out the window.

neither is it a very feasible idea, competency tests show that the education system (for those not sufferring alzheimer's or similar) is not working as it should, and which 'democratic' country wants to demonstrate that.
besides, who would decide who could set the questions?

without a good education, democracy is not viable, whether it be in the d.r. or any other country.
 

jose?to

The thread finally snapped...
Jun 19, 2002
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Literacy tests--as a gatekeeper for voters--are a thing of the past. What would you implement next? Poll taxes?

-Jose?to
 

XanaduRanch

*** Sin Bin ***
Sep 15, 2002
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"One man one vote" and "poll taxes" are talking points. If you wish to address the issues as I laid them out above, please do so if you are able.

As I stated, I have come to believe that the simple fact that you are breathing should not be sufficient to earn that right to vote. That is a valid starting point for a discussion. If you disagree, now pay attention, the appropriate response is to post something that says something like, "But, Tom, if you did that then .... and that would be bad because ...." An inappropraite response is stating solipsisms.

That doesn't further the debate, it just shows us all that you know how to type.
 

jose?to

The thread finally snapped...
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No need to get overly excited, Xanadu. Maybe you took the "you" from 'what would you implement next?' personal. It IS simply speech. Nothing more.

Now, if a person brings up the competency and literacy arguments to the table, as a way to weed out some voters, shouldn't the poll tax question be treated as 'food for thought'?

By the way, I don't know how to type, I just peck away ? la Royko, but much slower.

-Jose?to
 

XanaduRanch

*** Sin Bin ***
Sep 15, 2002
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Sorry for the long response!

I took nothing personally, Little Joe. The difference is that a "poll tax" simply enables folks with money to vote at the expense of those without money. Having money is not a prerequisite for being able to be a responsible voter. So, no, I do not believe a poll tax is an answer.

As for a comptency test, I would merely point out that most democracies, with absolutely no right ennunciated in their constitutions to do so, nevertheless divine a right to regulate their populations rights to drive, own weapons, etc. A test is usually involved. That also could be construed simply as a test of the educational system. It is in reality an attempt to make sure you don't accidentally hurt anyone else while driving or using your firearms.

So, back to voting. Not having any knowledge of what's going on, or what the consequences of your vote might be can and will also lead to the injury of others, can it not? I share everyone else's ingrained belief that "one man one vote" is the way it ought to be. But what I am asking, is why? I feel it rather than logically know it. A voting comptenecy test could be as simple as, "Do you know your own name? Can you spell it? What's the name of this country?" if you just want to be sure that a voter is mentally competent to the responsibility, ranging up to much more if you really wanted a "driver's license", "weapon's license" type test.

Doing so may mean that your country isn't a true representative democracy anymore, I don't know. You might even call it a democratic dictatorship in that only those who have proven able, choose those who will lead.

BUT consider this: Not having the right to vote without earning it might just be the impetus for all those who know nothing to get the knowledge they need to earn their voting rights. No one would be keeping anyone from doing that, and in fact this would be a huge incentive to do just that and allow democracy to flourish!

Food for thought.
 
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