- Thread starter Tony C
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Ex-PATS & Politics
XanaduRanch said:If you disagree, now pay attention, the appropriate response is to post something that says something like, "But, Tom, if you did that then .... and that would be bad because ...."
i was taught never to start a sentence with "but", but if you insist...
but, tom, i have been trying to follow your line of thought and i have to say that your last paragraph has left me completely stumped.
BUT consider this: Not having the right to vote without earning it might just be the impetus for all those who know nothing to get the knowledge they need to earn their voting rights. No one would be keeping anyone from doing that, and in fact this would be a huge incentive to do just that and allow democracy to flourish!
i am sure the idea is clear in your own mind and you have a valid point to make, but it just hasn't translated very well to the written form.
Not having the right to vote without earning it ...
- that makes no sense at all.
- would you mind repeating what you were trying to say in plain english.
If you disagree, now pay attention...."
...oh, and please don't bother with any snide remarks. we don't want this thread turned into another set of name-slinging posts and get closed, which would be a shame. thanks.
Relax! Somebody giving you an electronic wedgie, today?
Would you like one? I would (electronic or otherwise) but the wife's gone for the night. :: sigh ::
Many here have stated that Democracy may not be aviable option in the DR if folks don't have the education needed to understand what's a stake when they cast that vote. That's true in lots of places, not just here in the D.R.
That paragraph was just posing the thought that if voting was an earned privelege, then many who want to be involved would have a real incentive to learn: their own voting priveleges. In the process the whole country would benefit because these new voters would at last finally understand how they might best help to achieve the type of government they desire for their homeland.
Isn't that what everyone is whining about? Complaining that things will never change because people are ignorant, uneducated (not my words) etc. Things that are given free in life rarely have any value, but those priveleges that are earned are held in esteem and cherished for a lifetime.
Having said that it'll never happen, here or anywhere else. Because the polticos like El Burro, or like many in the U.S.A. absolutely rely on people not understanding what they're doing. They want people stupid, and just barely breathing is about the most independence they want as long as they pull the lever under their name.
Would you like one? I would (electronic or otherwise) but the wife's gone for the night. :: sigh ::
Many here have stated that Democracy may not be aviable option in the DR if folks don't have the education needed to understand what's a stake when they cast that vote. That's true in lots of places, not just here in the D.R.
That paragraph was just posing the thought that if voting was an earned privelege, then many who want to be involved would have a real incentive to learn: their own voting priveleges. In the process the whole country would benefit because these new voters would at last finally understand how they might best help to achieve the type of government they desire for their homeland.
Isn't that what everyone is whining about? Complaining that things will never change because people are ignorant, uneducated (not my words) etc. Things that are given free in life rarely have any value, but those priveleges that are earned are held in esteem and cherished for a lifetime.
Having said that it'll never happen, here or anywhere else. Because the polticos like El Burro, or like many in the U.S.A. absolutely rely on people not understanding what they're doing. They want people stupid, and just barely breathing is about the most independence they want as long as they pull the lever under their name.
You're Right!
That's very true. And this is another argument for another day as it is way off topic. But my solution for that (it would work in the US but not here) would be to lift all restrictions and let them grab whatever they want with two rules.
1) They can only collect money from people with a vote. No corporations. Voters can pool their money into pacs etc and give as a group, but no money from any other entities. No vote, no contribution. and
2) Any contributions must be instantly reported as to amount and source on-line so anyone (including your opponents who can use the info against you) can instantly go see who's getting money from whom.
Wouldn't work here because people don't have access to that information, and the few that do would get cut off before they could ever report it. I like this idea in the states because restrictions on giving are restrictions on my speech (I will tell you how ridiculous it gets some times in my dealings as a candidate with the FEC) and in the U.S. we spend less money on politics than we doing advertising chewing gum each year.
That's very true. And this is another argument for another day as it is way off topic. But my solution for that (it would work in the US but not here) would be to lift all restrictions and let them grab whatever they want with two rules.
1) They can only collect money from people with a vote. No corporations. Voters can pool their money into pacs etc and give as a group, but no money from any other entities. No vote, no contribution. and
2) Any contributions must be instantly reported as to amount and source on-line so anyone (including your opponents who can use the info against you) can instantly go see who's getting money from whom.
Wouldn't work here because people don't have access to that information, and the few that do would get cut off before they could ever report it. I like this idea in the states because restrictions on giving are restrictions on my speech (I will tell you how ridiculous it gets some times in my dealings as a candidate with the FEC) and in the U.S. we spend less money on politics than we doing advertising chewing gum each year.
But it does belong here.
The typical politician starts as an idealist, a visionary, works hard during the campaign, and gets rewarded with a position of power. So far, so good. Nothing new here.
OKay, now he has influence. FAIR.
Do you see where I'm going? Of course.
So a literacy test is implemented. Is the person giving the test honest? Can he be 'bought'? Sure.
It's a cycle that will never be broken in Dominican politics.
Corruption is here to stay!
j
The typical politician starts as an idealist, a visionary, works hard during the campaign, and gets rewarded with a position of power. So far, so good. Nothing new here.
OKay, now he has influence. FAIR.
Do you see where I'm going? Of course.
So a literacy test is implemented. Is the person giving the test honest? Can he be 'bought'? Sure.
It's a cycle that will never be broken in Dominican politics.
Corruption is here to stay!
j
I don't disagree with your description of what happens vis-a-vis corruption, etc. I think there are ways to address that through checks and balances so that while it will still happen it won't have a significant impact - if people have the will to. How to do that here? Boy, I wouldn't have a clue because it just seems to me the whole swamp would have to be drained just to start over and that's not gonna happen. And in any case I think that will take generations.
As you can tell, as I scientist by nature, I like to encourage everyone to think "out-side-the-box" by asking, "Why?". There are so many things that people just take as fact simply because they keep repeating them. That's what gets my hackles up. Not arguing about something. It's the "Just because" crowd that does it to me.
LOL.
As you can tell, as I scientist by nature, I like to encourage everyone to think "out-side-the-box" by asking, "Why?". There are so many things that people just take as fact simply because they keep repeating them. That's what gets my hackles up. Not arguing about something. It's the "Just because" crowd that does it to me.
LOL.
Elections time returning!
All those Dominican living overseas should make it a point to return for the elections. I will be there when the times come. I
will vote indepedent of local influences and choosing carefully.
All those Dominican living overseas should make it a point to return for the elections. I will be there when the times come. I
will vote indepedent of local influences and choosing carefully.