Gun Robbers in Sosua

[chico bill]

We know the place too and agree that the owners work hard and are good people. This place is always busy with people always around. Plus the security cameras. Strange that this place would be a target. Looks like no one got hurt except perhaps the one that didn't quite make it into the car as it tried to speed off and hit the speed bump.

The security company that Tambo mentions was a disaster for us and that's when we got serious about being reliant on ourselves. That company was NOT the one that Ladybird tried to set up out of an office at what was the Coastal station. (Is it still called Coastal?)

As said over and over. This happens everywhere and you will never find a place where it does not happen. Some more then others but that area really has improved over the last few years.

The owner got hurt - he lost a day's worth of receipts. I agree the guy with a shotgun seemed a bit slow. Not saying he knew the perps and maybe he did the smarter thing by firing into the air than going through the process of killing someone with relatives out for revenge.
But a skillful 12GA escopetero could have taken out all of them in a couple blasts or at a minimum blown the windows out of the getaway car with one blast, but he might have got his own warm lead injection for the trouble.
I would probably at least fired at the car as it sped away.
I bet the police know these guys and we will get to see them handcuffed on bench with pitiful pouting profile shots on Detras del Rumor in the morning

 

[ramesses]

The owner got hurt - he lost a day's worth of receipts. I agree the guy with a shotgun seemed a bit slow. Not saying he knew the perps and maybe he did the smarter thing by firing into the air than going through the process of killing someone with relatives out for revenge.
But a skillful 12GA escopetero could have taken out all of them in a couple blasts or at a minimum blown the windows out of the getaway car with one blast, but he might have got his own warm lead injection for the trouble.
I would probably at least fired at the car as it sped away.
I bet the police know these guys and we will get to see them handcuffed on bench with pitiful pouting profile shots on Detras del Rumor in the morning

The guy with the shotgun stocks the shelves, packages the cheese and meat and delivers water bottles. He is not a security guard.

 

[Cdn_Gringo]

An unskilled, untrained would be good Samaritans firing at fleeing suspects on a public street is how innocent bystanders get hurt. To be proficient with a shotgun, especially with shells containing bird shot, one needs range time to appreciate pellet spread over distance and the ability to determine if firing at all will be effective.

Hitting a bad guy holding a handgun with a thimble of bird shot is going to pi$$ them off and if it was me, I'd be inclined to turn around and show you what a real bullet real hole or two looks like.

The time to bring that shotgun to bear was inside the store at a distance of less than 10 feet but there were others who may have gotten in the way as the guy switched targets. It's a lot to consider in a very short amount of time with a changing dynamic. It would be best to engage your target from a place of cover rather than presenting the broad side of a barn for the perps to return fire at. No one was hurt and that's good as fortune gets here.

Note to self, if shopping and see someone wearing a tactical vest that's too small and jeans, shoot first...

 

[CristoRey]

Hate to state the obvious but this type of behavior is
quite normal for a lot of guys in their twenties here on
the island who are living for nothing while willing to
die for anything. Luckily they didn't kill anyone on their
way out.

 

[chico bill]

An unskilled, untrained would be good Samaritans firing at fleeing suspects on a public street is how innocent bystanders get hurt. To be proficient with a shotgun, especially with shells containing bird shot, one needs range time to appreciate pellet spread over distance and the ability to determine if firing at all will be effective.

Hitting a bad guy holding a handgun with a thimble of bird shot is going to pi$$ them off and if it was me, I'd be inclined to turn around and show you what a real bullet real hole or two looks like.

The time to bring that shotgun to bear was inside the store at a distance of less than 10 feet but there were others who may have gotten in the way as the guy switched targets. It's a lot to consider in a very short amount of time with a changing dynamic. It would be best to engage your target from a place of cover rather than presenting the broad side of a barn for the perps to return fire at. No one was hurt and that's good as fortune gets here.

Note to self, if shopping and see someone wearing a tactical vest that's too small and jeans, shoot first...

I guess I'm projecting my memories, learned as a kid from 9 to mid 20s, with a Remington Wingmaster 12 Guage. I assume shotguns kept for security here are loaded with 00 buck shot.

But even #6 bird shot would cut a man in half at 8 feet and you may be right he isn't familiar with the spread pattern.

When I was younger I knew it well and could knock pheasant, duck and doves in range or a running rabbit and think I could have fired it at the car without hitting any thing beyond.

Nowdays I may be pretending I'm still capable but since it's been years since I used a shotgun probably I'm not that skilled either.

Sent from my HTC One A9 using Tapatalk

 

[lifeisgreat]

Why risk anyone’s life over few bucks ..Creeps will be picked up and no life lost...because a gun was used in crime they will get special treatment..

 

[malko]

An unskilled, untrained would be good Samaritans firing at fleeing suspects on a public street is how innocent bystanders get hurt. To be proficient with a shotgun, especially with shells containing bird shot, one needs range time to appreciate pellet spread over distance and the ability to determine if firing at all will be effective.

Hitting a bad guy holding a handgun with a thimble of bird shot is going to pi$$ them off and if it was me, I'd be inclined to turn around and show you what a real bullet real hole or two looks like.

The time to bring that shotgun to bear was inside the store at a distance of less than 10 feet but there were others who may have gotten in the way as the guy switched targets. It's a lot to consider in a very short amount of time with a changing dynamic. It would be best to engage your target from a place of cover rather than presenting the broad side of a barn for the perps to return fire at. No one was hurt and that's good as fortune gets here.

Note to self, if shopping and see someone wearing a tactical vest that's too small and jeans, shoot first...

A couple of stuff to consider :

Does the shop have insurance to this effect ? If the answer is yes, not resisting is the right course of action ( I have my doubts, in the dr though ).

Does the shop owner work in the shop, at the time of the robbery ? Obviously employees are not going to play hero for 10k pesos a month.

Does the community have an efficient and seriois police force who may catch the perps, or at the least secure the neighborhood in the futur, so it doesnt happen again ? If the answer is yes, not resisting is the right course of action.

If the answer to #1 and #2 is no, then a shotgun blast, or 2, or 3, in the direction of the fleeing perps, would at least have them pause next time they need some drinking money. Hopefuly they will choose another shop to hold up, and not yours again.

Note to self : dont expect the guy who stacks the shelves to assure security in ones store........

 

[Cdn_Gringo]

Spread varies from shotgun to shotgun and from one type of ammo to another from a small to a potentially significant degree. To know the characteristics of "your" shotgun, you need to visit a range and fire from 10, 20, 30 40 & 50 feet. No buckshot readily available in this country, no slugs either - just birdshot - Predominantly in the 7-7.5 gauge size.

As is usually the case with othger restricted products, it is/may be possible to secure limited amounts of more effective escopeta ammo for targeting humans and larger animals, I just haven't seen it available for retail sale here. One would think that the "home defense" shells would be very popular in this country with both home owners and security personnel. Must therefore be import restricted.

The standard DR shotgun with a pistol grip and no sights in the hands of someone with no real experience deploying such a weapon are terribly inaccurate and hitting a moving target with one basically comes down to luck. #7 birdshot contains ~291 pellets that hurt but at anything other than close range do not produce debilitating wounds that would stop your average hyped up ladrone or a beefy football linebacker with any degree of certainty. Just a lot of tiny metal balls going all over the place - a real b*tch to have plucked out one at a time - yes mom, you can lose an eye.

 

[lifeisgreat]

At close up and personal it really doesn’t matter what is used it will kill...even at distance bird shot is a bitch..
https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=01a_1338766499

 

[affald]

They will find the guys. They will get a slap and the cops will get a rav 4.

 

[ctrob]

As is usually the case with othger restricted products, it is/may be possible to secure limited amounts of more effective escopeta ammo for targeting humans and larger animals, I just haven't seen it available for retail sale here. .
.

I've never done it myself, no need for it, but I've heard of people changing out the load in a 12 ga shell. Not reloading, but uncrimping, reload the shot and recrimp. Not for the average person of course.

I've always like the Dragons Breath as a "first round out".
[video=youtube;t8fmhpy0z1U]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8fmhpy0z1U[/video]

 

[lifeisgreat]

Not hard to do.. I reload for a few of my rifles for hunting back home ..everything here is mostly close up and personal no need to bring more fuel to fire..

 

[Cdn_Gringo]

I've always like the Dragons Breath as a "first round out".

A box of those would make a most excellent birthday present the next time you come down.

 

[DR Solar]

Last time I was at the Amory outside of S.D., I was told that the heaviest 12 gauge shell was #8. 2-3/4 inch. Good for quail and dove hunting. The shot pattern spreads quickly. So really only effective when up close with larger game/personal defense. It would not take out a car window nor take down a person, unless very lucky hit, at 50 feet. If using lead shot then you might give the person lead poisoning over time.

They did offer rubber slug shells but I didn't want. Thinking about it, they would do more damage at the 50 plus feet mark.

So when faced with 2 or more armed with 9m's, the guy with the shotgun may have been able to do some damage hoping not to hit others as the shot spreads out but most likely would not win. Plus the car still had the driver in it so that too might have been a factor. Given that the person was not a trained guard, it appears that he did the right thing and no one got hurt.

 

[chico bill]

Last time I was at the Amory outside of S.D., I was told that the heaviest 12 gauge shell was #8. 2-3/4 inch. Good for quail and dove hunting. The shot pattern spreads quickly. So really only effective when up close with larger game/personal defense. It would not take out a car window nor take down a person, unless very lucky hit, at 50 feet. If using lead shot then you might give the person lead poisoning over time.

They did offer rubber slug shells but I didn't want. Thinking about it, they would do more damage at the 50 plus feet mark.

So when faced with 2 or more armed with 9m's, the guy with the shotgun may have been able to do some damage hoping not to hit others as the shot spreads out but most likely would not win. Plus the car still had the driver in it so that too might have been a factor. Given that the person was not a trained guard, it appears that he did the right thing and no one got hurt.

50' feet for a 12GA with almost any load probably won't kill a man unless hit in the eye, but it will likely render them unwilling to return to the fight or wanting to fire back. Inside of 30' they are most likely going down.
[video]https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=01a_1338766499[/video]

 

[malko]

I am not gun savy, but i am guessing you dont want to be shooting at anything at 50 feet away ( had to google that one, 15 meters, for people who use normal units ) with a shotgun.

All I know is that in close quarters, like that shop, I dont want to be on the buisness end of a shotgun, even loaded with #2 or #6.
Thats the only 2 type of shells I got my hands on.
At a couple of meters away ( say 5 to 7 ) it blows chunks out of a ciment filled paint bucket.
Also in the outdoors the sheer noise of the thing will get your ears whistling, i cant even start to imagine in a confined space like that shop. Hell he' d of probably incapacitated, the perps, the employees, the clients and himself just by blowing everyones eardrums out.

 

[chico bill]

Chub Loads

When we were in high school we cut all around our waxed paper shells (before plastic) around at the wadding. We called them chub loads others call them "cut shells" and the wadding held the shell together. The wadding sits between the powder and pellets and used to be packed cotton wads. Nowdays it is more likely expanding plastic coils called pistons.

But then the cut around the wadding would send the entire shell out the barrel - note have a strong barrel and no modified choke, it is hard on the gun.
The result would cut an 8" tree in half at 10'.
This will end any Sosua robbery and that little vest the one guy was wearing wouldn't help him. Note to security guards go to the range if you want to practice this first. It was similar to the effect of a 70 caliber round.

See the video effect here:
[video=youtube;k3M46XVfVOU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3M46XVfVOU[/video]

 

[DR Solar]

Rather then trying to explain about the different shells and loads, look here:

http://www.rem870.com/2016/01/25/shotgun-shells-explained-types-of-ammo-birdshot-buckshot-slugs/

As you can see, #8 shot load is very weak at a distance with #10 being the weakest.

We are talking about what is available off the shelf here in the D.R.

 

[dv8]

have you guys met the topic? because i don't think so. go back to page one and read the OP again. it's about a robbery in a store in sosua, isn't it? what a surprise!

that gun talk is over. take it to OT if you wish.

 

[chico bill]

They arrested 5 guys last night in Imbert one with a silver slide on his semi-automatic similar to the guy in the gray sweatshirt. That is not that uncommon but it is uncommon enough to check him to see if he was one of the guys involved.