Haitian Citizenship from Birth

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Taino808

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Oct 10, 2010
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Quisqueya said:
Taino,

Personally I could care less about the Dominican nationality as it is worthless..your people are taking yolas to leave and come to where I and you reside. How nice is it to spew diatribes in the USA cupones y todo. Again, what the hell can anyone outside of DR do with a Dominican passport or BC...no sirve para nada. DR is a non factor in the big world and considered a poor country. I will never set foot in the DR as Dominicans are born to hate Haitians. I feel sorry for Dominicans of Haitian origin who most likely have an anti Haitian ideology and backward mentality to now be considered Haitian. This is only going to create friction as these people aren't going to vanish.
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First and for most, I am Dominican, born and raised and currently live in my birth place; Santiago. Secondly, although I was college educated in the good old US of A, I never had the need to live on the dole during my college years.

Thirdly, if my country is such a terrible place, why do you feel the need to force us to take in million of your illegal countrymen? Don't you want your countrymen to be better off than us Dominicans, if so, then I suggest you start a formal petition/campaign to have the great USA, Canada and France give more visas to your people. This way every body wins. We Dominicans won't have so many illegals in our country, and you and your people win by being far away from us.

In conclusion; I could care less, what other Dominicans are doing in other countries, it is up to those country to handle their immigration laws as they best see fit. So let us handle our situation as we see best, and you guys do the same at your end.
 
K-Mel

K-Mel

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Apr 15, 2012
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Quisqueya said:
This is only going to create friction as these people aren't going to vanish.
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As I always say, I fear that one day something really bad will happened (bloody ethnic fights). It may not last too long since the US is the real power who controls the 2 countries hence the entire island, and will fix the problem in few hours / days.

However nothing positive will come out such drama, only more hate and frustration on both sides. Nationalists on both sides of the island should unite together instead of hating each other (like those Haitian nationalists who fought side to side with the Dominican nationalists in 1965).

Man, imperialism and his by-products (racism, nationalism etc ) is a nasty B.TCH.

All nationalists movements finish sooner or later in wars and blood, just look at Europe's history.
 
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mountainannie

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M

mountainannie

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turns out the I may have been misreading the Haitian Constitution for years.. as it seems to give citizenship only by jus solis and jus sangre (naturalization can be had by five years of continuous residence)

here is the French version of the newest Constitution.. signed by Preval and put into effect by Martelly's government Haiti Amends Constitution

La Constitution Amendee dans le Moniteur

Here is the 1987 Constitution which is for the most part unchanged.

Haiti: Constitution, 1987

note Article 11
Any person born of a Haitian father or Haitian mother who are themselves native-born Haitians and have never renounced their nationality possesses Haitian nationality at the time of birth.

I had always read this passage as meaning that if one's PARENTS were born in Haiti they have the rights of citizenship, but this translation states that only if you yourself were born in Haiti do you have the rights of citizenship. I have checked the French and it is indeed clear that only if YOU yourself were born in Haiti do you have the rights of citizenship... (I will do some research on this so see when and if this was changed because the DR may be reacting to a change in the Haitian constituion).

thus Haiti applies both jus solis and jus sangre

Haiti Amends Constitution
 
J

jkc

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mountainannie said:
Quiskeya// I have yet to find a copy of the new constitution on line.. but here is a commentary by Edwin Pariason Ha?ti - Constitution : Un pas historique dans les relations Ha?ti-diaspora - HaitiLibre.com, Nouvelles d'Haiti, L'actualit? d'Haiti, Haiti News, d?cryptage, enjeux, r?actions, la voix du peuple Ha?tien who was your Minister of the Diaspora at the time.. He speaks of the vote which reapealed the articles preventing dual nationality in the Constitution.
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Which version can you not find? The 1987 constitution?
 
M

mountainannie

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As I suspected, the DR is reacting to Constitutional changes in the Haitian constitution about who is and who is not granted HAITIAN citizenship.

Here is the copy from the 1983 Constitution.. which was in place under Duvalier fils.

Article 11:
Sont Haitiens d'origine:

Tout individu n? en Ha?ti de p?re ha?tien ou de m?re ha?tienne;
Any individual born in Haiti to a Haitian father or Haitian mother

Tout individu n? ? l'?tranger de p?re et de m?re ha?tiens;
Any individual born abroad of a Haitian father and mother.

Tout individu n? en Haiti de p?re ?tranger ou, s'il n'est pas reconnu par son p?re, de m?re ?trang?re, pourvu qu'il descende de la race noire.

Any individual born in Haiti to a foreign father, or if the child is not recognized by the father, from a foreign mother, provided he comes from the black race.

La qualit? d'Ha?tien d'origine ainsi acquise ne peut ?tre enlev?e par le reconnaissance ult?rieure du p?re ?tranger.
The quality of Haitian by origian thus acquired cannot be removed by the later recognition by a foreign father.
 
M

mountainannie

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and from 1964

Haitian Constitution 1964
Title 2 chapter 1 Article 4
Any person born of a native born Haitian father shall be considered a native born Haitian. Any person born in Haiti of an unknown father, but whose mother is native-born Haitian, shall also be considered a native born Haitian
 
M

mountainannie

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jkc said:
Which version can you not find? The 1987 constitution?
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no, I was looking for an English translation of the new 2012 Constitution.. which is the one that I published in French.. the one that Preval signed and was published in the Monitor.

Anyway.. it does limit Haitian citizenship to those who were born in Haiti.

This cutting off of the citizenship of the children of the Haitian diaspora came between 1983 and 1987.

Now the DR is going back,, evidently to 1929.. to all those born here of Haitian parentage since then.

This will make an interesting head count. This will give the Dominican Haitians what they need for applying as official stateless persons.. Status of Stateless Persons
 
L

Lobo Tropical

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Aug 21, 2010
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K-Mel said:
As I always say, I fear that one day something really bad will happened (bloody ethnic fights).

Man, imperialism and his by-products (racism, nationalism etc ) is a nasty B.TCH.

.
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Rather than blaming "imperialism" you should focus on the harm done to Haitians past and present, by their own people!
 
K-Mel

K-Mel

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Lobo Tropical said:
Rather than blaming "imperialism" you should focus on the harm done to Haitians past and present, by their own people!
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You guys always use that same argument, YES Haitians do have their own culpability however imperialism is the main reason which explains this mess. Cuba is also a mess because of imperialism. DR is a paradise next to Cuba, yet that island is beautiful and people is better educated...

An interesting and unbiased explanation of Haiti current situation:

Haiti: The Aftershocks of History: Laurent Dubois: 9781250002365: Amazon.com: Books
 
G

GWOZOZO

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Taino808 said:
MA's post is not a clarification, fact is, the Haitian constitution (Article 11) grants all Haitians nationality through Jus Sanguinis (right of blood) no matter where they are born on this earth, this is unless they publicly denounce said birth right.

MA is just glossing over written facts, with some convenient lies.
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I think taino808 may be right on that one.
 
G

GWOZOZO

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Taino808 said:
First and for most, I am Dominican, born and raised and currently live in my birth place; Santiago. Secondly, although I was college educated in the good old US of A, I never had the need to live on the dole during my college years.

Thirdly, if my country is such a terrible place, why do you feel the need to force us to take in million of your illegal countrymen? Don't you want your countrymen to be better off than us Dominicans, if so, then I suggest you start a formal petition/campaign to have the great USA, Canada and France give more visas to your people. This way every body wins. We Dominicans won't have so many illegals in our country, and you and your people win by being far away from us.

In conclusion; I could care less, what other Dominicans are doing in other countries, it is up to those country to handle their immigration laws as they best see fit. So let us handle our situation as we see best, and you guys do the same at your end.
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Again taino808 is making some valid points here.
 
G

GWOZOZO

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K-Mel said:
As I always say, I fear that one day something really bad will happened (bloody ethnic fights). It may not last too long since the US is the real power who controls the 2 countries hence the entire island, and will fix the problem in few hours / days.

.
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As long as they keep the bloodletting on the DR side.
 
N

Naked_Snake

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GWOZOZO said:
As long as they keep the bloodletting on the DR side.
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It will likely be that way, cuz' if you notice, a military expedition has never been launched against Haitian territory from this country. The only ones that could count as such is Guy Phillipe's incursion against Aristide, but then, that had the CIA fingerprints all over it, the only thing this country doing is to lend the territory for the arming to take place. The other one was the ill-fated attempt of Leon Cantave against Duvalier, but that also had the same condition.
 
G

GWOZOZO

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mountainannie said:
Tout individu n? en Haiti de p?re ?tranger ou, s'il n'est pas reconnu par son p?re, de m?re ?trang?re, pourvu qu'il descende de la race noire.

Any individual born in Haiti to a foreign father, or if the child is not recognized by the father, from a foreign mother, provided he comes from the black race.
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Haiti used race in the recent past.
 
G

GWOZOZO

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Quisqueya said:
I feel sorry for Dominicans of Haitian origin who most likely have an anti Haitian ideology and backward mentality to now be considered Haitian.
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And that is why you don't hear much from the other haitian diasporas.

Most haitians consider these people lost haitians who can't contribute anything to haiti.

These poor souls will always be looked down upon by the english and french speaking diasporas as well as by kreyol speaking haitians in haiti.
 
G

GWOZOZO

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Haiti Recalls Ambassador to Dominican Republic

Written by

The Sentinel Staff

Monday, September 30, 2013 10:04 PM

PORT-AU-PRINCE, Haiti (sentinel.ht) - On Monday, the Haitian Ministry of Foreign Affairs informed the press of the decision of the Haitian Government to recall its Ambassador to the Dominican Republic, Fritz Cin?as, from Santo Domingo.

The notice sent to The Sentinel by Foreign Affairs Minister Pierre Richard Casimir specifically noted the measure was in response to the September 26, 2013 decision of the Dominican Constitutional Court's order to strip citizenship of descendants of aliens.

In a statement, the Haitian Chancellery said it:


"...is very concerned by this decision. It will set the position of the Government of Haiti as soon as possible."

"The Ministry of Foreign Affairs avails itself of this opportunity to renew to the broadcast media, television and the written assurance of its highest consideration."

The Sentinel has asked some of Haiti's senior officials on whether the nation would seek any sort of sanctioning of the Dominican Republic with the support of regional and international organizations such as Caricom, the Organization of American States, and the United Nations, which all have expressed some form of distaste for the Dominican Republic's decision; Haitian officials did not immediately respond on the matter, saying further consultations are being made.


Read more: Haiti Recalls Ambassador to Dominican Republic
 
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