Is America a Socialist Country?

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the gorgon

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cobraboy said:
2 doctor-prescribed dexamyls-low dose amphetamine and barbituate-a day is an addict? Think you might be exaggerating just a little, Comrade?

Steve Jobs used LSD.

Carl Sagan was a pothead.

Doc Ellis pitched a no-hitter on LSD.

Edgar Allen Poe was an opium addict.

Bill Clinton and Obama used drugs.

Bill Gates used LSD.

Abe Lincoln smoked hemp.

Sigmund Freud did coke.

Winston Churchill did opium.

About 99% of musicians use drugs.

But Rand is to be criticized for her doctor-prescribed diet pills. Okey Dokey. Gotcha...


And? That could describe a large swath of fashionable Europe.:cheeky:

One can determine true fear in neo-communists by how often they attempt personal destruction.

If only you had actually READ Rand, Comrade, instead of repeating Overlord takes. If you actually had read any Rand you'd find that she was an Objectivist and had a poor opinion of libertarians. So you actually have something in common with Ayn Rand.

Born in Russia to Jews, her family having their property confiscated by the Bolsheviks, educated in Communist state university, emigrating to America where through hard work, intelligence and various forms of guile made a major impact on the lives of many millions.

Was she flawed? Sure. So are you. So am I. So what? All humans are.

Comrade, your obsession is quite impressive. Do they sell these at the Peoples Cooperative?

voodoo-dolls-wallpaper.jpg
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cobraboy, you forget to mention that after spending most of her adult life pontificating against government help for the needy, Ayn Rand had no problem in applying for Social Security and Medicare when SHE need them.
 
cobraboy

cobraboy

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the gorgon said:
cobraboy, you forget to mention that after spending most of her adult life pontificating against government help for the needy, Ayn Rand had no problem in applying for Social Security and Medicare when SHE need them.
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Seeing how she spent a lifetime making contributions, can you blame her? Her SS and Medicare are NOT "socialism" as we discussed before.

I intend to do the same thing, "need" or not. It was my money, not the gubmints. I want some of it back. I'll be just fine with the proceeds as if it was an annuity with any excess going to my estate, and not receiving any more than I put in. It's pre-paid insurance. In fact FICA stands for Federal Insurance Contributions Act. Not Free Cheese.

The average worker/contributor has around $250,000-450,000 deducted in their lifetime in FICA taxes. That's a lot of cheese. Any reasonable person would like some sort of return on that "investment."

That's just common sense.
 
T

the gorgon

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cobraboy said:
Seeing how she spent a lifetime making contributions, can you blame her? Her SS and Medicare are NOT "socialism" as we discussed before.

I intend to do the same thing, "need" or not. It was my money, not the gubmints. I want some of it back. I'll be just fine with the proceeds as if it was an annuity with any excess going to my estate, and not receiving any more than I put in. It's pre-paid insurance. In fact FICA stands for Federal Insurance Contributions Act. Not Free Cheese.

The average worker/contributor has around $250,000-450,000 deducted in their lifetime in FICA taxes. That's a lot of cheese. Any reasonable person would like some sort of return on that "investment."

That's just common sense.
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the fact is that Medicare provides far more bang for the buck than private insurance. a bonanza for those who are importuned to invest in it. so, in effect, she was deriving a benefit from a government program, while berating people who benefited from others. and thanks for telling me, but i understand what FICA means. paid taxes for 30 plus years.
 
bob saunders

bob saunders

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the gorgon said:
the fact is that Medicare provides far more bang for the buck than private insurance. a bonanza for those who are importuned to invest in it. so, in effect, she was deriving a benefit from a government program, while berating people who benefited from others. and thanks for telling me, but i understand what FICA means. paid taxes for 30 plus years.
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Really , how does Medicare offer more bang for the buck?
 
cobraboy

cobraboy

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the gorgon said:
the fact is that Medicare provides far more bang for the buck than private insurance. a bonanza for those who are importuned to invest in it. so, in effect, she was deriving a benefit from a government program, while berating people who benefited from others. and thanks for telling me, but i understand what FICA means. paid taxes for 30 plus years.
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That's not the point.

Rand paid into the system, as we all have, for years. We ALL have earned the "right" to some return on that investment.

Anyone who paid into those programs should benefit from them.

Not all gubmint programs, as I have explained before, are socialist.

Can you show me where she "berated" Medicare and Social Security beneficiaries? I mean there are literally THOUSANDS of gubmint programs of which SS and MC are just two...and people pay into them DIRECTLY for a future prescribed benefit.
 
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Frank the Tank

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Hmm, this thread has been moved to the Clown Bin. Not so funny if one lives in a country with a $16 trillion deficit with a growing entitlement mentality.
 
cobraboy

cobraboy

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bob saunders said:
Really , how does Medicare offer more bang for the buck?
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Look at it this way:

Using just raw numnbers (no future value) a person who worked for 45 years paid over $40,000 into Medicare. The current average life expectancy is 78 years, so they will have 13 years of Medicare. That averages to around $3100 per year in pre-paid health insurance. Medicare Part b is about $100 a month and Part D has deductibles, and Medigap insurance varies, $50 to 300 per month.

So what Medicare REALLY costs is between $360 and 700 per month, plus deductibles, depending on options.

Is it worth the cost? That is a consumer decision. I don't know what "bang for the buck" means, seeing how there is no real alternative except Medicare after age 65; it's generally, by far, the first payor.
 
cobraboy

cobraboy

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Frank the Tank said:
Hmm, this thread has been moved to the Clown Bin. Not so funny if one lives in a country with a $16 trillion deficit with a growing entitlement mentality.
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Solution is obvious, Frank: demonize you 24/7 until we take mo of yer money...
 
bienamor

bienamor

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the gorgon said:
some things in this life are as predictable as night following day. every time a black man loses his life in an incident which has questionable racial undertones, it is but a short matter of time before a peripheral story surfaces, in which some white person is said to have been attacked by a group of wilding black adolescents, hell bent on exacting random revenge upon any white person within arms length. in this latest contretemps, involving Trayvon Martin, we now have this story of a youngster having been attacked by marauding black youths, who attempted to set him ablaze with the help of gasoline and a BIC disposable lighter.
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I do hope that this is not the kid being set on file in retaliation for Treyvon Martin that your referencing. As it happened only 3 days after his shooting, and before all the Media Hipe. Police: Pair Set 13-Year-Old Boy On Fire - Kansas City News Story - KMBC Kansas City. And nothing mentioned about the florida shooting
 
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pi2

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In most of Europe medical care beyond 65 is complety free. They have efficient systems and do not pay doctors stupid amounts.

pi2
 
T

the gorgon

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T

the gorgon

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pi2 said:
Americans in general love socialism. Corruption among elites prevents socialism happening.

pi2
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americans , in general, have no philosophical disagreement with socialism. they just disagree with who should benefit. when agribusiness gets a billion dollar subsidy, that is OK. when Wall Street bankers get trillion dollar bailouts, whoopee. when some unemployed lady , from the inner city, gets a few dollars of welfare, then people squawk, because, in their minds, Obama is giving away the country to the darkies.
 
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Randall Bell

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To those thinking that private health care is more efficient than public health care, consider the arguments presented herein:

What is the cause of excess costs in US healthcare? Take three - signs of reform : denialism blog

The bottom line is, we already have public free healthcare in America - it's called the ER.

If you show up with an emergency, then they will spend lots of money to solve your problems, and it will all be free (if you can't pay).

Naturally many problems in ER are not gunshot wounds or heart attacks, they're things that could have been solved with a modicum of spending 6 weeks ago, but that grew and grew into becoming an emergency.

In short, the above essay gives you a short window into the healthcare world as written by a doctor on the inside. It's pretty clear that we Americans are the victims of highway robbery by the insurance companies and at the end of the day a public service would be more efficient, affordable, and effective...
 
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pi2

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No. for example the NHS and other European health services are efficient for example compared with US systems. From this efficiency there is a substantial ,free, bonus. In some countries this is applied evenly to all groups in society but many nations favor the over 65 s with completely free healthcare and medicines. The medicines in total are bought at a deep discount from the manufacturers. So in the end a substantial proportion is ,free, compared with what other countries pay.

pi2

pi2
 
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pi2

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Randall Bell said:
To those thinking that private health care is more efficient than public health care, consider the arguments presented herein:

What is the cause of excess costs in US healthcare? Take three - signs of reform : denialism blog

The bottom line is, we already have public free healthcare in America - it's called the ER.

If you show up with an emergency, then they will spend lots of money to solve your problems, and it will all be free (if you can't pay).

Naturally many problems in ER are not gunshot wounds or heart attacks, they're things that could have been solved with a modicum of spending 6 weeks ago, but that grew and grew into becoming an emergency.

In short, the above essay gives you a short window into the healthcare world as written by a doctor on the inside. It's pretty clear that we Americans are the victims of highway robbery by the insurance companies and at the end of the day a public service would be more efficient, affordable, and effective...
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Free medicine = ER ?????? The diabetic who falls into a coma every 6 weeks and is admitted to ER because they cannot afford a doctor plus overpriced medications does just great on this free medicine.

pi2
 
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Randall Bell

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Precisely. IF you read the article that's what it describes. In America, all of our prices are too high because precisely the case you observe happens, and those costs for curing diabetic shock are spread across the rest of procedures, resulting in $700K heart surgeries etc.


If we had a system that was more 'holistic' in nature, we would realize that paying $15/week for diabetic treatment would in the end be cheaper than paying for the ambulatory care that's 'free'...
 
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