Let's Talk Motorcycle Safety

[ADV Moto]

I would also add that more than half the fun, is riding a moto, in flip-flops, bermudas and a T-shirt. A beer in one hand, hair blowing in the wind and 2 chicas on the seat behind me
Only kidding, shoes and jeans are a must.

I hear ya'.

It's all great fun until the skin transplants...

 

[CristoRey]

One of my companies has brought hundreds of riders to the DR over 9 years, ridden over 200,000 miles all over the island, and in all those years we've had 4 incidents with only one that could be judged as an "environmental" threat and not pilot-induced: a rider t-boned a goat that jumped in front of him. We've not had drunk drivers crash into us or any of the other "threats" many lament about.

I think that sample size is large enough an evidence pool to dispute the myth that anyone riding a motorcycle will suffer crashes, injury and death.

One of the most interesting observations I've gained over the years is the concept of "experience." Often when someone says "I have 30 years riding experience, what he really means is he has a few weeks experience repeated over a number of years.

We've had literally World Class motorcyclists ride in the DR, motorcycle magazine editors, motorcycle racers, numerous MSF instructors, and retired MotoGP racers who would disagree about the lack of a safe riding environment.

Certainly it's not for everybody. If you're afraid of the traffic patterns and are unsure if your skills mitigate the risks, don't ride here. In fact, it may be best for all if you don't, one less hazard on the road. The rest of us will appreciate it.

But for the rest of us, we want to have a deeper understanding of what we can do to increase our skills, knowledge and threat assessment and develop instinctive strategies to deal with them...until they become second nature.

And let me emphasize one major reason I think we've had very few issues in those 200,000+ miles: respect. When motos or cars see a group on large motorcycles fully geared up and not acting foolish they treat us with great respect. When I ride alone all geared up, they treat me with respect. In a culture where outward appearance triggers social behaviors, I believe presenting yourself as ATGATT does make the traffic around you treat you differently. That by itself is a major safety enhancer: creating an positive environment within your "zone" that changes traditional traffic behaviors.

If I were trying to sell motorcycles to potential new clients here in the Dominican Republic, I?d agree with ya 100%.
But I?m not so let me just say this.. anyone who thinks you are somehow protected or safer on these roads while riding a motorcycle
because you are ?presenting?yourself as ATGATT... is a fool.

 

[DRob]

If I were trying to sell motorcycles to potential new clients here in the Dominican Republic, I?d agree with ya 100%.
But I?m not so let me just say this.. anyone who thinks you are somehow protected or safer on these roads while riding a motorcycle
because you are ?presenting?yourself as ATGATT... is a fool.

Nothing will save you from a head-on with a tractor trailer.

That said, most accidents are more about rider error and loss of control. Gear is a lot like insurance: a complete waste of time and money, right up until you need it.

As someone who has been down, I can tell you one of the main reasons I was able to get back up was because I was wearing gear.

Gear matters, regardless if you're going around the corner or across the country. Anyone who thinks that's untrue or foolish, really shouldn't be riding.

 

[ADV Moto]

If I were trying to sell motorcycles to potential new clients here in the Dominican Republic, I?d agree with ya 100%.
But I?m not so let me just say this.. anyone who thinks you are somehow protected or safer on these roads while riding a motorcycle
because you are ?presenting?yourself as ATGATT... is a fool.

The results offer contrary evidence.

But I do understand some people just don't like motorcycles and abide by their biases.

I am selling motorcycles because:

• I understand the riding culture of the DR.
• I believe, through many years of experience, is one of the top places on the planet to ride bikes (but not in the urban areas.)
• I have commented in the past as what would constitute the "perfect" motorcycle for all of the above.
• I'm a business guy, I love the game, and
• An opportunity presented itself that combines the above dynamics with a personal passion of motorcycles in general.

I certainly don't expect everyone to buy a motorcycle from me. Not in the least. My offerings are more "boutique" and may not appeal to all. Some, absolutely.

I'm also fanatical on motorcycle safety. I've seen my share of nasty car and motorcycle accidents with the accompanying carnage and severed limbs and sobbing mothers, and have a good friend who is doing his orthopedic residency in a large public hospital in SDQ. I hear his tales.

No amount of expat negativity is going to change a simple fact: motorcycles are not only here to stay, but will increase in numbers. They won't be banned. The carnage will continue among the poor, ignorant and unskilled. So I'm on a new track to bring motorcycle safety to the DR on a 10+year project to try changing the culture as much as possible. And to this end I've allied myself with two Ministers, several motorcycle manufacturers, some insurance companies and a large motorcycle safety organization in the states. This is just beginning.

It seems for the community in general, getting behind the moto-safety push would be a positive. It needs to start somewhere.

So I ask you: what is the harm with publicly discussing motorcycle safety for those who DO ride and WILL continue to do so?

 

[ADV Moto]

Nothing will save you from a head-on with a tractor trailer.

That said, most accidents are more about rider error and loss of control. Gear is a lot like insurance: a complete waste of time and money, right up until you need it.

As someone who has been down, I can tell you one of the main reasons I was able to get back up was because I was wearing gear.

Gear matters, regardless if you're going around the corner or across the country. Anyone who thinks that's untrue or foolish, really shouldn't be riding.

^^^THIS^^^

Especially ^^^THIS^^^

The name of the game, once again, is risk mitigation, stacking the odds in your favor. But this goes with any risky endeavor, flying, SCUBA, riding horses, ultralights, chasing chicas, you name it.

 

[DRob]

So I ask you: what is the harm with publicly discussing motorcycle safety for those who DO ride and WILL continue to do so?

His entire post +10

 

[Derfish]

We can hope that this program will not be too costly for the Dominican individual who needs his moto to feed his family. If he has to pay to pass a test to be legal to keep on working it definitely is not a good thing.
Der Fish

 

[davetuna]

ok, so for you to help me, I would need advice on which clothes to buy to ride a bike here in DR without melting inside.

do you have any links to show me suitable lightweight jackets and jeans/trousers with protection. ?

 

[melphis]

I gave up riding in Canada a few years ago as it seemed to me that there were a lot of really stupid people trying to kill me. The last time it almost worked. A woman texting while she turned left in front of me. Thank god for antilock brakes. I'm sure the dent in her door would have cost about a grand to fix. It kinda hurt my foot but it was well worth it

If it where up to me here every bike that was pulled over at night without lights would be crushed immediately.
All bikes without proper documentation would be siezed. Held for 10 days until proper paper showed up.

I could go on and on but if these 2 things happened I think you woukd see the repeat offenders clwan up their act

 

[Derfish]

Nothing will save you from a head-on with a tractor trailer.

That said, most accidents are more about rider error and loss of control. Gear is a lot like insurance: a complete waste of time and money, right up until you need it.

As someone who has been down, I can tell you one of the main reasons I was able to get back up was because I was wearing gear.

Gear matters, regardless if you're going around the corner or across the country. Anyone who thinks that's untrue or foolish, really shouldn't be riding.

My first wife used to like to ride her motorcycle with sandels on or even bare foot. That is why she now has on ly 4 toes on her left foot! For real!
Der Fish

 

[DRob]

ok, so for you to help me, I would need advice on which clothes to buy to ride a bike here in DR without melting inside.

do you have any links to show me suitable lightweight jackets and jeans/trousers with protection. ?

BILT is the private label for Cycle Gear, pretty much the largest chain in the US. They have a ton of mesh jackets and ventilated pants. I have had one of the jackets for five years, and it was very comfortable in DR last May. It also protected me during my spill.

You can also find ventilated riding gloves and helmets there, or online:

http://www.cyclegear.com/BILT-Techno-Mesh-Motorcycle-Jacket

 

[Derfish]

What I would really like to see is the magical helmets that let one see and hear as much as if the head and ears were not covered!
Der Fish

 

[DRob]

I gave up riding in Canada a few years ago as it seemed to me that there were a lot of really stupid people trying to kill me.

That's why I don't ride here in ATL. It's a completely different experience in the campo. Having done the "tail of the iguana," lol, and driven the new(er) road to LT, I understand why ADV loves riding here so much.

 

[davetuna]

BILT is the private label for Cycle Gear, pretty much the largest chain in the US. They have a ton of mesh jackets and ventilated pants. I have had one of the jackets for five years, and it was very comfortable in DR last May. It also protected me during my spill.

You can also find ventilated riding gloves and helmets there, or online:




http://www.cyclegear.com/BILT-Techno-Mesh-Motorcycle-Jacket

thanks, looks like some good stuff.

dave

 

[ADV Moto]

ok, so for you to help me, I would need advice on which clothes to buy to ride a bike here in DR without melting inside.

do you have any links to show me suitable lightweight jackets and jeans/trousers with protection. ?

Look for warm weather mesh gear. I posted a link to Revzilla, one of several large online retailers. They have a good search engine for finding gear.

There are numerous options for all gear. Much is just personal preference. Please note: you do not have to spend a lot of money to get good, quality, safe riding gear.

I already mentioned helmets before and offered some objective data and opinions.

When we say ATGATT---All The Gear All The Time---we mean technical gear designed with armored pads to protect against collisions to absorb direct contact and resistance to abrasion when you slide across pavement.

This includes:

• DOT helmet (discussed already)
• Armored ballistic jacket (armor in the elbows, shoulders and back with material in the back, shoulders and elbows for skid-resistance)
• Armored ballistic pants (armor in knees and hips with ballistic material in the knees, hips and butt
• Boots, over the ankle (stiff, heavy leather with armored ankle cup, toe box with shin protection; I suggest mid-calf boots, not just over the ankle in the
• Full gloves (abrasion resistant in the palms and knuckles)

There are numerous variations and materials in all those categories.

I can tell you what I wear and why, but by no means is this list limited, and I certainly understand why others wear what they do.

First of all, I'm not brand conscious, but I AM bang-for-the-buck conscious. And I consider the riding environment as a primary factor in my decisons

I spoke of my helmet before. Robert spoke that he used Kilm gear (top-quality and very pricey.) There are serious hardcore Aerostitch cultists out there.

My jacket is a Tourmaster Draft Air in red, with heavy duty Cordura in skid areas, properly armored and open mesh in the chest, back and inside sleeves. I put an after market full CE back protector in it. It's tough, strong in the impact areas, flows a ton of air and has arm and waist adjustments. Very comfortable. It's heavier than most because of the materials. It fits well and is cut larger---and I'm a large human. I never feel hot in it.

I bought it at an online closeout for around $150, retail around $200.

I just changed pants after 3 years, just wore out some Joe Rocket Phoenix 3's. I found some excellent Rev 'It Airwave pants and added some high-tech hip protectors to them. High quality brand with Cordura in the right places (knees, hips, butt, shin) and open mesh elsewhere. Great snaps, zippers & velcro. One feature I highly suggest is full length pant zippers that allow you to take them off without removing the boots. I'll never have pants without them again because it makes getting them on and off a breeze. They have stretchy material in the knee and high waist, and multiple adjustments for a great fit. They are longer, drape the boots, and have two ankle adjustments. Mine are black, but here they are in gray so you can see the detail:

Again, I bought them at a closeout for around $160. Retail was around $230.

I have warm weather, water resistant boots. I'm a fan of Alpinestars, a high quality Italian brand known for go-fast gear. I had to order them a size larger because the Euro sizing runs small. The model is their Web Gore-Tex Boot and has a waterproof Gore-Tex lining and are a quality build. I'm 3 years into these boots and they hold up very well. They have a shin shield and toe and ankle cups. Tough. Strong zippers and a wide piece of heavy duty velcro over them. Considered a "sports touring" boot based on the sleek design.

Not cheap at around $230, but worth the money.

I'm crazy about my gloves, Tourmaster Gel Cruisers, leather and mesh with a gel lower palm pad, and reinforces leather on the knuckles. VERY cool, comfortable and good protection:

They sell like crazy at $55 and often are out of stock.

I wear wicking basketball shorts, a wicking T-shirt and comfy wicking undies under the gear, so I'm very cool, never ever hot. I wear long wicking padded athletic socks. I don't care if it rains because all my gear dires quickly, and the rain is never really cold here; in fact, sometimes it's a welcome relief.

Again: this is what I wear and is by no means "the best" and a comprehensive "you must wear this" list. There is a LOT of quality gear out there. And, except for boots and helmet, I admit to shopping sales. I will say cheap gear doesn't hold up well in my experience.

Just remember this: "Dress for the fall, not for the ride." Make sure the gear is protective first and foremost, then worry about the style. Just don't dress like a pirate...

 

[ADV Moto]

What I would really like to see is the magical helmets that let one see and hear as much as if the head and ears were not covered!
Der Fish

Vision is controlled by your neck. You will go where your head points. Look at the heads of MotoGP racers; they don't move their eyes, they move their whole head.

Studies show that sound is not that a great a safety mitigator, in fact sound can be considered unsafe.

Why?

I knew you'd ask:

The best safety tool you have is anticipation which is honed through training, experience...and your sight. Studies show that the brain can handle attention to just a few stimuli at a time. Additionally, studies show a lot of sound causes the brain to lose focus. Many ride with music unaware that the music actually diminished sight recognition and reaction times.

One of the great training "breakthroughs" in my life came from a pro racer who made a bet about wearing 30db foam earplugs. He claimed I'd instantly become a better rider because there would be a minimum of sound distractions, like wind, exhaust note, etc. He claimed every racer uses them on the track and street. He gave me a handful of Howard Light's green foam earplugs, I rolled them up and stuck them in.

WOW!!! What an amazing difference! The top 30db of all the road, wind and other sounds were gone, I could still hear...and immediately noticed I could actually *feel* the suspension working, I could *feel* the chassis movement and could focus on my riding 3x better than before. I was MUCH more aware of my surroundings, and I was no longer concerned about the high-rev vibration of the engine. And at the end of the day I was MUCH, MUCH less fatigued after a long day than ever before.

So now I buy foam ear plugs by the 200 count box, about $30 by the time the get to the DR.

 

[Derfish]

I just changed pants after 3 years, Those must have been getting kind of stinky!

 

[ADV Moto]

That's why I don't ride here in ATL. It's a completely different experience in the campo. Having done the "tail of the iguana," lol, and driven the new(er) road to LT, I understand why ADV loves riding here so much.

You need to ride the roads around Constanza: truly World Class, and I make no exaggeration.

There is also a new road around San Juan de la Maguana toward Barahona I'm told.

I can't wait for the road from Piedra Blanca to San Jose de Ocoa. It'll be cosmic!

The road from Barahona to Bahia de Las Aguilas is simply amazing...

 

[ADV Moto]

BILT is the private label for Cycle Gear, pretty much the largest chain in the US. They have a ton of mesh jackets and ventilated pants. I have had one of the jackets for five years, and it was very comfortable in DR last May. It also protected me during my spill.

You can also find ventilated riding gloves and helmets there, or online:

http://www.cyclegear.com/BILT-Techno-Mesh-Motorcycle-Jacket

Cycle Gear just bought Revzilla.

 

[PICHARDO]

Have not had a chance to read this Thread.. but I will say this.. as someone who was riding moto x since age 12, always had a Dirt bike as a kid, always rode on the road when I was younger.
and still DO have and occasionally Ride my Yamaha 500 cc..
also have a 750 Kawasaki. But hardly ever ride that anymore..

But I would never ever ever even THINK about riding a Motorcycle in the DR.. for a mode of transportation..

For FUN on weekends . short rides, 100% focused, yes.
Quads , yes.. of course.

But a STREET BIKE, Daily ? ... IMO you guys are taking your life in your hands, exponentially more than like in
a Major City back in the states.. These Doms don?t have a CLUE how little it takes to Injure or kill a Biker nor do they even remotely Care..
You get hit , you WILL bleed out on the street. There will be no Helicopter, not even an ambulance there in 3 mins with trained people to save u.
And if you make it to the Hospital, they will want Cash before they even touch you, so you better travel with like $3-5 K in cash at all times.
and some of you who i consider fairly sane people otherwise, when I see you without even a HELMET .. you guys need to really re evaluate..
hope you all stay safe.
Just my .02, nothing more.

You think?

Take the number of motorcycles on the road in the DR, and their percentage to that of all other four or more wheeled vehicles, and then the number of deaths due to riding them.

Then take the number of motorcycles on the road in the U.S., and the percentage of all other 4's, then the same data as above.

Catch something?