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Middle Class in DR
Some people might get confused about Villa Olga higher in respect to Los Cerros, but most of Los Cerros is now high end apartments, whilst Villa Olga is still mostly single family homes. The house with the 120k is in Los Cerros, but note how you go from lower income to so much by just the type of housing selected within the same high end community.
If you really want to have a picture of how much household incomes change in the DR, just ask any RE agent to give you a run down of expected rental rates for all their areas in the zone they serve (just two of each will be enough).
That will tell you how much each community level of income registers on the real world...
That's how biz operate in the DR, we go by the rental rate averages to know how much is there in purchase power for a given area. Rent is rated a 1/3 of the gross income at max, so the average rent rates will tell you the average gross income for each area! On poorer hoods rent is almost 40% of the expected gross income! Keep that in mind!
If you really want to have a picture of how much household incomes change in the DR, just ask any RE agent to give you a run down of expected rental rates for all their areas in the zone they serve (just two of each will be enough).
That will tell you how much each community level of income registers on the real world...
That's how biz operate in the DR, we go by the rental rate averages to know how much is there in purchase power for a given area. Rent is rated a 1/3 of the gross income at max, so the average rent rates will tell you the average gross income for each area! On poorer hoods rent is almost 40% of the expected gross income! Keep that in mind!
There's a crash course that each expat moving to the DR faces: One is the expected culture shock, the other the one where they realize that people don't live off minimum wage here, nor are the wages even close to what people need to even gas up the cars.
I said this before and will say it once again: Don't believe what you hear about people living on the meager wages they tout in the news or on the mouth of politicians looking for votes!
I said this before and will say it once again: Don't believe what you hear about people living on the meager wages they tout in the news or on the mouth of politicians looking for votes!
Just so you "grasp" it a lil':
You pay a higher rate in USD$ for Kwh for electrical service in the DR than the USA.
You pay a lot higher (and I mean a lot) for an indentical car in the DR than in the USA.
You pay more for Internet services in the DR (at lower speeds) than in the USA.
You pay what Americans would riot about, for a gallon of gasoline in the DR.
You pay a lot more than what Americans pay for the same appliances and wares here in the DR.
A good 60% of the general expenses around the household are more expensive in the DR than in the USA.
Yet... For all this many think somehow that they can live a comfortable living here in the DR from what many still accept Dominican middle class households to make a living from, given all the BS posted on the media and politicians abound.
Food is cheaper if all you plan to eat are DR based platanos, rice and beans each day of your life here...
However that occasional imported cereal will be off limits, save for the once a month break the piggy bank event...
When was the last time you had to keep care not to buy imports back in your old country? The DR is that kind of place where imports are more than just a nice treat, and costs a heck of a lot more to enjoy.
The DR is a cheap place if you plan to live in poverty, for lack of a better expression for a first world denizen...
To live here as middle class you'll need far more than what you read up in the media as the "averages" or national minimums set for wages...
A lot of people live in La La Land when it comes to reality in the DR here...
Car insurance is cheap here, the car or the gas are not! That gives you an idea of what to expect from the insurance premiums, when you need to cover accidents or a loss...
Many expats move to campitos in the coasts around the DR, calling them cities and what not. Reality is that a good 60% of the people living around those areas and working there are not Dominican but Haitians, foreigners just like them... If you really want to see and find out how Dominican make do in this country get away from the coastal campitos and visit towns inland, well inland.
I just sigh each time I see a post from a soon to be expat living in the DR, asking how to go about getting a mortgage here or financing a car... Or asking what's the middle income average to determine how they can make do here, instead of taking a few months to rent a place and live here and see how that works out when compared to numbers offered on minimum wages/household income patterns, etc...
In as little as 90 Days anybody can grasp 90% of the issues after paying and making do, living in the DR out of their pockets, trying to match how their next door middle class Dominican neighbors pay for that living standard...
I have shown the opinions (presented as facts here by some) about how middle class Dominican households make do in the DR to one of my sisters, she just rolled up her eyes and sighed... She lives in Reparto Monumental in Santiago, with two kids attending PUCMM, one for architecture and the other Telematica, both her and husband own an import/export biz as well here. She said she would want to see many here pay two college bills, house bills, insurance, gas, maintenance for 2 compact sedans, a full side sedan and SUV, dog food, vet care, health insurance, making at least one trip each year to maintain visas for all the members, vacations for the whole family, 4 cell phone bills, maids and etc... On the kind of budget some have said would do just fine here...
And we're not talking fancy vacations here! But trips in the DR itself to Jarabacoa, Constanza, etc...
Somehow people come here and think they can just get a mortgage for a home, buy a car with financing and pay for God knows what else, whilst living a decent middle class living out of the posted average Dominicans are supposed to live according to a many?!?
LOL!!!
Just think and use a pen, ink how much you pay back home for a gallon of gas (or a liter in the case of the UK), how much for a mere 700 to 900 Kwh of service, and last but not least find how much a honda civic or nissan sentra 2011 runs for back home from a dealer and how much they tag them here for...
That will open your eyes to what's real and what's not!
Now why the DR looks and is a nice place to consider moving?
Low taxes!
Nice beaches just minutes or at worst 2 hours away, but open year round and still among the best in the world!
Cheap RE if you know where and what to buy!
People still say Good morning and greet you with a smile!
And a lot more, too much to list here!
But cheap middle class living ain't one of those if you think of living based on what you read posted around, saying what the "average" middle class Dominican household ekes out for a living...
You pay a higher rate in USD$ for Kwh for electrical service in the DR than the USA.
You pay a lot higher (and I mean a lot) for an indentical car in the DR than in the USA.
You pay more for Internet services in the DR (at lower speeds) than in the USA.
You pay what Americans would riot about, for a gallon of gasoline in the DR.
You pay a lot more than what Americans pay for the same appliances and wares here in the DR.
A good 60% of the general expenses around the household are more expensive in the DR than in the USA.
Yet... For all this many think somehow that they can live a comfortable living here in the DR from what many still accept Dominican middle class households to make a living from, given all the BS posted on the media and politicians abound.
Food is cheaper if all you plan to eat are DR based platanos, rice and beans each day of your life here...
However that occasional imported cereal will be off limits, save for the once a month break the piggy bank event...
When was the last time you had to keep care not to buy imports back in your old country? The DR is that kind of place where imports are more than just a nice treat, and costs a heck of a lot more to enjoy.
The DR is a cheap place if you plan to live in poverty, for lack of a better expression for a first world denizen...
To live here as middle class you'll need far more than what you read up in the media as the "averages" or national minimums set for wages...
A lot of people live in La La Land when it comes to reality in the DR here...
Car insurance is cheap here, the car or the gas are not! That gives you an idea of what to expect from the insurance premiums, when you need to cover accidents or a loss...
Many expats move to campitos in the coasts around the DR, calling them cities and what not. Reality is that a good 60% of the people living around those areas and working there are not Dominican but Haitians, foreigners just like them... If you really want to see and find out how Dominican make do in this country get away from the coastal campitos and visit towns inland, well inland.
I just sigh each time I see a post from a soon to be expat living in the DR, asking how to go about getting a mortgage here or financing a car... Or asking what's the middle income average to determine how they can make do here, instead of taking a few months to rent a place and live here and see how that works out when compared to numbers offered on minimum wages/household income patterns, etc...
In as little as 90 Days anybody can grasp 90% of the issues after paying and making do, living in the DR out of their pockets, trying to match how their next door middle class Dominican neighbors pay for that living standard...
I have shown the opinions (presented as facts here by some) about how middle class Dominican households make do in the DR to one of my sisters, she just rolled up her eyes and sighed... She lives in Reparto Monumental in Santiago, with two kids attending PUCMM, one for architecture and the other Telematica, both her and husband own an import/export biz as well here. She said she would want to see many here pay two college bills, house bills, insurance, gas, maintenance for 2 compact sedans, a full side sedan and SUV, dog food, vet care, health insurance, making at least one trip each year to maintain visas for all the members, vacations for the whole family, 4 cell phone bills, maids and etc... On the kind of budget some have said would do just fine here...
And we're not talking fancy vacations here! But trips in the DR itself to Jarabacoa, Constanza, etc...
Somehow people come here and think they can just get a mortgage for a home, buy a car with financing and pay for God knows what else, whilst living a decent middle class living out of the posted average Dominicans are supposed to live according to a many?!?
LOL!!!
Just think and use a pen, ink how much you pay back home for a gallon of gas (or a liter in the case of the UK), how much for a mere 700 to 900 Kwh of service, and last but not least find how much a honda civic or nissan sentra 2011 runs for back home from a dealer and how much they tag them here for...
That will open your eyes to what's real and what's not!
Now why the DR looks and is a nice place to consider moving?
Low taxes!
Nice beaches just minutes or at worst 2 hours away, but open year round and still among the best in the world!
Cheap RE if you know where and what to buy!
People still say Good morning and greet you with a smile!
And a lot more, too much to list here!
But cheap middle class living ain't one of those if you think of living based on what you read posted around, saying what the "average" middle class Dominican household ekes out for a living...
If you live around here in SD, your middle class income must be beyond RD$50,000 at minimum...
If you think you can live here with 50,000 a month forget it.
Maintenance= 8,000-15,000
School for 2= 36,000 (not in a english school)
Electricity = 15,000-20,000
Gas for 2 SUV = 60,000
Mortgage, cars payments, etc, etc, etc
if you want to live here as a US middle class you need to earn at least US5,000 a month.
If you want to live as a 3rd world middle class, then you can make it with 50,000 a month, but definitely not in this area.
Johnny is the best case of a upper class person considering himself as a "middle class" as NAL's stated. I know several others like him, all the money in the world and they're always complaining about their "bad fortune" and how "tight" they currently are.
Just curious....What is the difference ?
I maybe wrong since I don't live in the DR, but middle class in the DR seems to be able to afford full time household helps, something that would be out of reach for most American middle class household.
Thus,as an outsider, seems to me like a "third world middle class" have it better. No?
@Pichardo: Great pictures, nice to see things visually !
This was off topic and not contributing to the thread. Therefore I eliminated it. Sorry.
Last edited by a moderator:
Johnny writes: If you think you can live here with 50,000 a month forget it.
Maintenance= 8,000-15,000
School for 2= 36,000 (not in a english school)
Electricity = 15,000-20,000
Gas for 2 SUV = 60,000
Mortgage, cars payments, etc, etc, etc
if you want to live here as a US middle class you need to earn at least US5,000 a month.
If you want to live as a 3rd world middle class, then you can make it with 50,000 a month, but definitely not in this area.
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What are you calling maintenance?
I have already paid for two through university/school with the 3rd one in his third year.
Who needs two SUVs.
My wife who is Dominican has figured we can live at least as well as our current Canadian middle class on 40,000. Of course we have decided that one SUV is enough, own our house, eat mainly local food ( we are not quite vegetarians, but not far from it), not big drinkers or regular restaurant users. Our biggest expenses is likely two trips abroad each year. One back to Canada and one for vacation ( Spain, Italy, France, Costa Rica, Colombia....etc) I have no doubt we can manage this on out current income.
Maintenance= 8,000-15,000
School for 2= 36,000 (not in a english school)
Electricity = 15,000-20,000
Gas for 2 SUV = 60,000
Mortgage, cars payments, etc, etc, etc
if you want to live here as a US middle class you need to earn at least US5,000 a month.
If you want to live as a 3rd world middle class, then you can make it with 50,000 a month, but definitely not in this area.
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What are you calling maintenance?
I have already paid for two through university/school with the 3rd one in his third year.
Who needs two SUVs.
My wife who is Dominican has figured we can live at least as well as our current Canadian middle class on 40,000. Of course we have decided that one SUV is enough, own our house, eat mainly local food ( we are not quite vegetarians, but not far from it), not big drinkers or regular restaurant users. Our biggest expenses is likely two trips abroad each year. One back to Canada and one for vacation ( Spain, Italy, France, Costa Rica, Colombia....etc) I have no doubt we can manage this on out current income.
Lol who pays 15,000-20,000DOP in electric bills?? These are just hypothetical figures.
ah for sure my topic was off , I make the point that class isnt money.Its difficult to know when you are off
I seem to remember this figure in another thread backed up with a colourful map of a % breakdown of social class.
What would still be useful to know is the breakdown of income in real absolute figures (or at least an estimate)- was this included in the recent census.
Pichardo shows some nice pictures of flats (how many are occupied?) in Santo Domingo but from my experience the "middle class" in Santo Domingo have a pretty tough existance meeting all those bills (same in the UK). Some seem to be able to do extremely well for no apparent reason - but is that due to other sources of income?
that 44% figure is a crock. only some deranged statistican would think of implying that close to one half of Dominicans live a middle class existence. for every one guy who rolls up to a location in a toyota corolla, ten guys get off a motoncho, and 15 get out of a carrito...ergo
It's "middle class" in Baltimore or Charlotte.
It's "upper middle class" in Little Rock or Dover.
It's "poverty level" in NYC, Washington, DC, Boston, Los Angeles, etc.
It's a big Country with wild variations in cost of living. The USA is not a fair comparison. It's cheaper to live in Jackson Mississippi than in Santo Domingo by far.
Cost of living: Compare prices in two cities - CNNMoney.com
None.
There is a disturbing absence of clothes hanging on lines to dry on the balconies....and where are the cars and foot traffic? Those photo's are jaundiced.
I really don't know if I'm understanding this correctly, but if I am, I believe anyone capable of buying a US$100,000 apt. I'm sure could also buy a washer and drier. I guess this explains the missing clothe lines in these expensive balconies.